Forget the deadline, the OFF SEASON is where its at?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Without doubt, this team is going to look really different at the start of next season. Now, this isn't a "lets give up on this season and look towards the next" thread, its just a place to discuss something different.

Who goes?

Who stays?

Do we add a goaltender? A defenseman? Chris Neil?

Lets hear some opinions. To start, I think the Wings are at least contemplating a Hudler or Filppula + Howard, etc. package for Harding, now that Minny has Backs locked up for 6M per for the next 4 years.

[Guest MrSandMan]

LMAO!!! I knew this thread was coming

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

LMAO!!! I knew this thread was coming

I think you and I will both agree that Ozzie should definitely go.

[Guest mindfly]

Who's the best goalie who will be a UFA/RFA after this season?

Chris Neil just re-signed with Ottawa so not very likely I think.

[norrisnick 1]

The Wings will never again be rock solidly defensively so long as Rafalski is seeing big time minutes. His $6M/yr contract will be an albatross. Doubly so should Nick retire within the next 3 years.

[I Red Wings I 40]

Chelios, that clears up .75 Mil

[Wingsallwin 0]

Get Harding by the cap from not resigning Franzen. Then, when Nick's contract is over, get Luongo.

[Doggy 130]

Sadly, someone might not be able to come back.

GMR, will you still be a Wings fan if Lilja is no longer in the lineup?

Edited March 8, 2009 by Doggy

[Guest MrSandMan]

I just want Holland to keep as many roster players as possible and fill the ones that we do lose with GR players.

[eva unit zero 271]

The Wings will have to trade cap space, such as Filppula, Holmstrom, or Kronwall, if they play to retain any significant number of the free agents they have in the offseason.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Trade Filppula. Really, just get him off the team. He's not worth the money he'll be making in a couple of years.

[rick zombo 3,739]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to tonight's loss.

I fail to believe that the Wings defense is the issue. I know they're playing poorly, but I don't attribute that to a group on the decline.

Lidstrom is aging, no doubt, and Rafalski's having a bad year in his own zone. BUT I still think Stuart and Kronwall are quality players.

I just feel like there's something going on that's making all the guys under-produce. Maybe it's Todd leaving to coach in SJ, maybe Conklin's an ******* in the dressing room, or maybe the guys are tuning Babcock out. Maybe they don't listen to him anymore.

What I think solves the problem though:

1. Let Conklin go in the offseason, and bring in a #1 goalie. Someone you can call a #1.

2. Filpulla, Howard, and a 1st for Garnet Exelby and rights to Kari Lehtonen's RFA contract

3. Kari will cost at less as an RFA than what Franzen will make. So farewell Johan. + the loss of Filpulla would free up room for Hossa.

4. Re-sign Hossa.

5. Samuelson goes. Lilja goes. Lebda goes.

Major shuffle. Bring in some new blood, that will LISTEN to Babcock.

Like this:

Hossa- Datsyuk- Holmstrom

Hudler - Zetterberg - Leino

Kopecky - Helm - Cleary

Maltby - Draper - Abdlekader

Downey

Lidstrom - Kronwall

Rafalski - Exelby

Stuart - Ericsson

Meech

Lehtonen

Osgood

Edited March 8, 2009 by rick zombo

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to tonight's loss.

I fail to believe that the Wings defense is the issue. I know they're playing poorly, but I don't attribute that to a group on the decline.

Lidstrom is aging, no doubt, and Rafalski's having a bad year in his own zone. BUT I still think Stuart and Kronwall are quality players.

I just feel like there's something going on that's making all the guys under-produce. Maybe it's Todd leaving to coach in SJ, maybe Conklin's an ******* in the dressing room, or maybe the guys are tuning Babcock out. Maybe they don't listen to him anymore.

What I think solves the problem though:

1. Let Conklin go in the offseason, and bring in a #1 goalie. Someone you can call a #1.

2. Filpulla, Howard, and a 1st for Garnet Exelby and rights to Kari Lehtonen's RFA contract

3. Kari will cost at less as an RFA than what Franzen will make. So farewell Johan. + the loss of Filpulla would free up room for Hossa.

4. Re-sign Hossa.

5. Samuelson goes. Lilja goes. Lebda goes.

Major shuffle. Bring in some new blood, that will LISTEN to Babcock.

Like this:

Hossa- Datsyuk- Holmstrom

Hudler - Zetterberg - Leino

Kopecky - Helm - Cleary

Maltby - Draper - Abdlekader

Downey

Lidstrom - Kronwall

Rafalski - Exelby

Stuart - Ericsson

Meech

Lehtonen

Osgood

Getting rid of Filppula would be bad. Fippula is Datsyuk's replacement and Leino is Zetterberg's replacement. Filppula is one hell of a passer, like Datstyk, he can deke when he's confident, Leino can score, hang onto the puck, and read the play.

[Mors 201]

Filppula, Samuelsson, Chelios, Osgood, Lebda for starters...

[Mors 201]

Getting rid of Filppula would be bad. Fippula is Datsyuk's replacement and Leino is Zetterberg's replacement. Filppula is one hell of a passer, like Datstyk, he can deke when he's confident, Leino can score, hang onto the puck, and read the play.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg's replacements for what? the 2018 season?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Sadly, someone might not be able to come back.

GMR, will you still be a Wings fan if Lilja is no longer in the lineup?

I was a Wings fan even before Lilja became an enforcer in the NHL.

If he doesn't come back, Ericsson will have to step it up physically in his place. With this type of goaltending, though, there's only so much the defense can do.

[Heaton 1]

The Wings will never again be rock solidly defensively so long as Rafalski is seeing big time minutes. His $6M/yr contract will be an albatross. Doubly so should Nick retire within the next 3 years.

Yep. Although it might be easier if Kenny proposed a new plan to start playing with medicine balls. A little bit bigger tha beach balls and much heavier so it'll be easier to have a better reaction time.

[Wingsallwin 0]

Isn't that a pretty much deal? Nick will retire in the future but we are stacked up with Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart, who are not playing whole defensively but better offensively. This kind of topic started to come up to the surface of our problem few years ago.

However, last season was Osgood's season, best GAA, best Sv percentage, incredible playoff performance. Now, Osgood will never bounce back and people here do not like Howard's performance.

We can somehow trade Rafalski. Before that, do not forget we can trade Osgood. It does not matter how loyal this team is to the group of players. If any player is playing poorly, that means the mangnificient chance of getting traded.

[Reilly 24]

Players I'd dump:

Samuelsson

Downey

Hossa

Chelios

Kopecky

McCarty

Player I'd make available for trade:

Hudler

Filppula

Stuart

Lilja

Meech

Maltby

Lebda

Players I'd resign

Franzen

Conklin

Sorry, this team can't afford a star #1 goaltender. The only chance the Wings have of acquiring one is when Luongo is an UFA in 2010 and Lidstrom's salary comes off the books. That's their only window, and who knows what Luongo will do by then. They're just going to have to go with Osgood/Conklin duo again next year.

As for Rafalski, yeah, he's been horrible defensively this year, but I'd rather keep him than trade him for $6 million worth of spare parts from another team. They won't get useful value for him. He played well last year, and throughout most of his career, so I think it would be better just to see what he does next season.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Reilly

[Superman54 91]

Do what ever you can to trade Rafalski for some prospects, and bring in Bouwmeester. Then trade Filppula, Howard, and a pick for Harding or Lehtonen. Problem Solved!

[beepbeep 3]

If we could get Bouwmeester to sign a long term like Zetterburg, then trade Rafalski, Stuart or Kronwall, plus Lebda and Flip or Franzen ....................Hopefully Raffy cuz he ain't worth 6M!

Edited March 8, 2009 by beepbeep

[Heaton 1]

Do what ever you can to trade Rafalski for some prospects, and bring in Bouwmeester. Then trade Filppula, Howard, and a pick for Harding or Lehtonen. Problem Solved!

Not if the other defensemen and players don't find that determination again.

I also shudder to think what Bouwmeester might sign for after watching Brian Campbell get 8m/yr.

Harding or Lehtonen are hard to gauge too, big question marks.

[nkuehnl 0]

09/10 roster, ~50 million dollars

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

??? - Filppula - ???

Cleary - Helm - ???

Maltby - Draper - Abdelkader

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Ericsson

Meech - Lebda

Osgood

Howard

That leaves ~6 million dollars to sign the following players:

Hossa

Franzen

Hudler

Leino

Samuelsson

Kopecky

It would be quite a task to win the Cup with the above line-up. Detroit would have to pray for no injuries because they would have no room to tinker with the roster at the trade deadline. Holland, therefore, must make a trade (or multiple trades) before next season or accept the fact that his team is not going to be at the upper echelon of the league.

Players who could be traded

Forwards:

Filppula (3M cap hit/4 years left)

Let's face it, he's been less than stellar offensively this year and he's at least 5th on the defensive depth chart for next year's potential roster. Three million dollars is a bit high for his play right now and his skillset is redundant when comparing him to the rest of the Red Wings.

Cleary (2.8M cap hit/4 years left)

I don't have any problems with Cleary, but I think it's possible he could be traded. At 2.8M, he doesn't really provide the type of offense to be a mainstay on either of the top two lines. Samuelsson and Holmstrom both outproduce him at a cheaper price. Cleary is better than Holmstrom defensively, for sure, but Cleary can't reproduce Holmstrom's PP output. As for Samuelsson/Cleary, if it's a matter of saving 1.2m-1.5m, give me Samuelsson every time with the current cap problems Detroit has.

I've heard some people mention Maltby and Holmstrom, but they're both UFAs after next season and it's extremely unlikely that Holland would trade either of them.

Defensemen:

Rafalski (6M cap hit/3 years left)

He's been lousy defensively, for sure, but do point out which of our defensemen have been defensive stalwarts this year. On top of that, he's the 4th scorer on the team behind Datsyuk, Hossa, and Zetterberg. We already have to suffer Samuelsson playing the point on the PP, I don't really want to see what happens when we get rid of Rafalski, too. I'd say it's possible that he's traded, but very unlikely.

Stuart (3.75M cap hit/3 years left)

He had a decent playoffs, though I think Kronwall's run helped to overrate Stuart. If Ericsson can play more minutes next season (and by all indication, Babcock seems to think so), Stuart is too expensive for a 4th defenseman.

Lebda (.65M cap hit/1 year left)

Useless, especially with Meech and the emergence of Ericsson. As of right now, I doubt that I'll see Lebda in a Red Wings jersey next October.

Meech (.5M cap hit/1 year left - RFA)

He's cheaper than Lebda and Detroit could use him as a reserve next year (or as a 6th, depending on if any of the above are traded). He'll be here if Lebda isn't.

Goalies:

Osgood (~1.4M cap hit/2 years left)

Honestly, I don't see the point of keeping him around after this season. I'd rather see them take a chance on Howard and there are cheaper back-ups available. That said, I find it hard to believe Holland would get rid of him a second time.

Howard (~.7M cap hit/2 years)

Howard's expendable with the emergence of Larsson and McCollum. I don't foresee Detroit getting a whole lot out of Howard in a trade though. I'd rather see him get a chance to run with the team next year.

My argument is that trading Filppula and Stuart would give us the best return and best salary relief.

As for who I'd want from our own FA list:

1. Franzen

2. Leino

3. Samuelsson

4. Kopecky

5. Hudler

6. Hossa

Keep in mind this is obviously not a list based on my favorites or on skill. Hossa is last simply because re-signing him is not feasible. Hudler is second-to-last because I don't think he's going to be worth the money spent and I think we could get a nice return for him by trading his RFA rights. Kopecky won't get much of a raise; he's an effective role player; he still has some untapped offensive potential. Samuelsson is cheap and effective for what he does (aside from playing the point on the PP, but I digress). Leino could be locked into a cheaper, long term contract and he's got great potential. Finally, Franzen brings too many different skills to the table to let him walk. On that list, he's the second best defensive player (to Hossa), the biggest and most physical player, tied for second best offensive player (tied with Hudler [though Franzen is much more capable of doing things by himself], second to Hossa), and he's also the perfect replacement for Holmstrom on the PP.

Edited March 9, 2009 by nkuehnl

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Do what ever you can to trade Rafalski for some prospects, and bring in Bouwmeester. Then trade Filppula, Howard, and a pick for Harding or Lehtonen. Problem Solved!

Raffy's no-trade clause would be a problem UNsolved.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Players who could be traded

Forwards:

Cleary (2.8M cap hit/4 years left)

Defensemen:

Rafalski (6M cap hit/3 years left)

Stuart (3.75M cap hit/3 years left)

I believe all three of these players have NTC's. I'm a little iffy about Stuart - but I know for a fact both Rafalski and Cleary have them.