RockyMountainWingGal 108 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 I find it a bit unprofessional how much Hradek is bragging about voting for Green - right now on NHLlive - he even had Green on the show and told him he voted for him. That's nice and all, but how about keeping a lid on it until they announce the winners.... annoying. Nick needs to hoist the big trophy this year again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blikst 1 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Maybe the fans are watching the Caps/Rangers series. Has he been that bad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 I think Green will win it, because big numbers trump actual play in most awards anymore. Seems the media has forgotten the point of the Richard and the Ross... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 QUESTION Did Nick Lidstrom change the game of hockey in any sort of way? I'm not talking about the impact that Bobby Orr had. It's just that I'm guessing Nick made his own legacy that will live on through Nick Junior and Big E and basically any defenseman who plays in the Red Wings system. Kind of like how Stevie's commitment to two-way play lives on through every forward on the Wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 This is my complete lack of surprise. Congrats, Nick. Here's hoping you're hoisting many trophies this summer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 No, the winner was already determined (voted on) about 1-2 weeks ago. And in Green's case, he's lucky they did. His playoff totals: 4GP 0G 2A 2PTS -3+/- 6PIM 0PPG 0SHG 0GWG 11S 0.0S%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) I would say he did. Lidstrom revitalized the role of the smooth-skating, stick checking, positionally sound defenseman and took it to a level that is arguably unmatched in the history of the sport (I personally think he does the latter two even better than Orr did, though Orr has an edge on skating and physicality, not to mention offensive upside). Defensemen of the "skilled" variety were few and far between as "greats" before Lidstrom, and almost no Norris winners (exceptions being Coffey, a prolific goal scorer, and Orr, a prolific everything). The vast majority had been the physical, tough, hard hitting sort, blended in sometimes with good offensive upside as well (think the Bourque, Chelios sort). Nowadays, you see a large number of players like Duncan Keith, Nick Schultz, and others being regarded as among the best defensive d-men in the game, despite a lack of physical edge to their game. These same shutdown d-men avoid bad or frequent injury due to their style of play, a further asset to their team. Lidstrom is one of only a handful of d-men in hockey history that can claim to have a team built around him and his style of play for an extended period of time. Whereas Bobby Orr was more or less in a league of his own and pretty much a one man team, Lidstrom, in my opinion, epitomizes the idea of building from the "defense out" more than any other d-man in the history of the NHL. Perhaps no coincidence that the Red Wings have been the most successful team in the NHL since the year he joined the club full time. You could also argue that Lidstrom is a HUGE force in the recognition of European hockey players in the NHL, in particular Swedish players. I would argue him as the 2nd most talented European player to play in the NHL (with Hasek being first), and by far the most successful (including being the first European to captain an NHL team to the cup). Not only is Lidstrom an embodiment of the defense first idea, but he's also the first player that comes to my mind when someone brings up the "European style" of hockey. I suspect this is the same for many people. Oh, and then there's his class and humility, a great asset not to just the game but to the business and spirit of hockey... Edited April 23, 2009 by Datsyerberger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 It will literally be a sham if Green wins it. I don't care how many points he has, hes a solid step behind Lidstorm and Chara in his own zone at least. In fact, hes a solid step behind about 20 other Dmen in this league on offense alone. I've always said that the way the Norris should be decided is by looking at whether or not a player can put up good offensive numbers without sacrificing his defensive game. Considering how much of Green's game is jumping up into the play to the point where hes burying goals from the face-off circles, I'd say he makes definite sacrifices to his defensive game nightly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedSea 31 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Hopefully the Norris voters don't pay attention to the Red Wing-hating Versus crew. All they talked about was Chara vs. Green with maybe a small mention of Lidstrom. Hands down, Lidstrom is the best one on one defensemen in the league. Chara is good all around and Green is banking on his ridiculous scoring ability. I originally thought Chara would win it, but I could see it going to Green. But that would be a damned shame, because this isn't about who can put up the most points, but who can shut down the opponent. And Lids does that game in and game out. The one thing hurting Nick is that he has less average TOI than both Green and Chara (especially Chara) and that shows the voters that Washington and Boston are relying much more heavily on their top d-men. Oh well, Nick has plenty of Norris trophies. He would probably have to build another case if he won anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 I would say he did. Lidstrom revitalized the role of the smooth-skating, stick checking, positionally sound defenseman and took it to a level that is arguably unmatched in the history of the sport (I personally think he does the latter two even better than Orr did, though Orr has an edge on skating and physicality, not to mention offensive upside). Defensemen of the "skilled" variety were few and far between as "greats" before Lidstrom, and almost no Norris winners (exceptions being Coffey, a prolific goal scorer, and Orr, a prolific everything). The vast majority had been the physical, tough, hard hitting sort, blended in sometimes with good offensive upside as well (think the Bourque, Chelios sort). Nowadays, you see a large number of players like Duncan Keith, Nick Schultz, and others being regarded as among the best defensive d-men in the game, despite a lack of physical edge to their game. These same shutdown d-men avoid bad or frequent injury due to their style of play, a further asset to their team. Lidstrom is one of only a handful of d-men in hockey history that can claim to have a team built around him and his style of play for an extended period of time. Whereas Bobby Orr was more or less in a league of his own and pretty much a one man team, Lidstrom, in my opinion, epitomizes the idea of building from the "defense out" more than any other d-man in the history of the NHL. Perhaps no coincidence that the Red Wings have been the most successful team in the NHL since the year he joined the club full time. You could also argue that Lidstrom is a HUGE force in the recognition of European hockey players in the NHL, in particular Swedish players. I would argue him as the 2nd most talented European player to play in the NHL (with Hasek being first), and by far the most successful (including being the first European to captain an NHL team to the cup). Not only is Lidstrom an embodiment of the defense first idea, but he's also the first player that comes to my mind when someone brings up the "European style" of hockey. I suspect this is the same for many people. Oh, and then there's his class and humility, a great asset not to just the game but to the business and spirit of hockey... Nice write-up! To guys that saw him, Lidstrom reminds a lot of old-timers of Red Kelly. Doug Harvey was a chippier version of Lidstrom as well, and was the first version of the "perfect" defenseman. Borje Salming more of us can remember, and I assume he had a large influence on Lidstrom. Serge Savard, defensively, is also someone I would compare favorably to Lidstrom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Borje Salming Lidstrom claims Salming as his favorite/most influential player, does he not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
softshoes 83 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 I'm pretty sure most voters got the league memo: Scoring puts fans in the seats. With that in mind I think Green will win it,much to my dismay. I wouldn't have a problem if Green was nominated for the Selke though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Lidstrom claims Salming as his favorite/most influential player, does he not? I think I remember reading that... [searching]... yup, Salming was Lidstrom's idol growing up, and the two actually got to play together in 1991 for Team Sweden in the Canada Cup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 With that in mind I think Green will win it,much to my dismay. I wouldn't have a problem if Green was nominated for the Selke though. Too bad he's probably not even a top 100 defensive forward in the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingfan1991 221 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 how many times is this now he is nominated anyone got the right info? 6 wins and how many nominations? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Can anyone give me a convincing argument to why Chara should win it instead of Lidstrom? I know you shouldn't look only at stats, but when Chara doesn't even have the best numbers among d-men on his team, I have to wonder why people think he has such a good chance to get it. Atleast if Green wins it I can understand that they voted for his offensive skill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 how many times is this now he is nominated anyone got the right info? 6 wins and how many nominations? Three - He was second in '98 (robbed), '99 and 2000. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymom1960 5,107 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Lidstrom deserves it - much better all-around player than both Chara and Green. Coffey was destroying his peers by as much as 40% when he won his Norrises based mainly on offense; Green was not even 10% higher than his closest competitor. On his best days Chara can play as good of defense as a 38 year-old Lidstrom, but Lidstrom clearly beats him in the offensive zone. Plus Lidstrom's +/- is much better, and on a team that let in a hell of a lot more goals than Boston. Maybe the writers are sick of Lidstrom winning it, but he clearly deserves it. Maybe he'll win on a popular vote. I've seen Brodeur clearly win it even though I didn't believe he deserved it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
k3sparks 1 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Lindstrom winning the poll on nhl.com right now Chara 33% Green 33% Lindstrom 34% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) Can anyone give me a convincing argument to why Chara should win it instead of Lidstrom? I know you shouldn't look only at stats, but when Chara doesn't even have the best numbers among d-men on his team, I have to wonder why people think he has such a good chance to get it. Atleast if Green wins it I can understand that they voted for his offensive skill. Lidstrom has been seen, like it or not, for the first half of the season, making rather large mistakes and getting burned. The defense is largely seen as the biggest problem with the Wings, with the goaltending not exactly being stellar either. Now, while him being on a team with a horrendous PK % and goals allowed per game isn't really going to matter much for the Norris, the fact is both Chara and Green have got significantly more attention than Lidstrom. It really looks like the writers are looking to crown a new Norris winner this season. I want Lidstrom to win, but let's face it, him winning would be a huge upset of the other two. It's not a knock on Lids, it's just evident by the way the media is going that it heavily favors Green, then Chara, and Lids is kind of on the backburner. And pet peeve of mine, but to the last poster, it's Lidstrom, not Lindstrom. Edited April 23, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 It will literally be a sham if Green wins it. I don't care how many points he has, hes a solid step behind Lidstorm and Chara in his own zone at least. In fact, hes a solid step behind about 20 other Dmen in this league on offense alone. I've always said that the way the Norris should be decided is by looking at whether or not a player can put up good offensive numbers without sacrificing his defensive game. Considering how much of Green's game is jumping up into the play to the point where hes burying goals from the face-off circles, I'd say he makes definite sacrifices to his defensive game nightly. Quoted for truth. "The James Norris Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position." --NHL.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 I would say he did. Lidstrom revitalized the role of the smooth-skating, stick checking, positionally sound defenseman and took it to a level that is arguably unmatched in the history of the sport (I personally think he does the latter two even better than Orr did, though Orr has an edge on skating and physicality, not to mention offensive upside). Defensemen of the "skilled" variety were few and far between as "greats" before Lidstrom, and almost no Norris winners (exceptions being Coffey, a prolific goal scorer, and Orr, a prolific everything). The vast majority had been the physical, tough, hard hitting sort, blended in sometimes with good offensive upside as well (think the Bourque, Chelios sort). Nowadays, you see a large number of players like Duncan Keith, Nick Schultz, and others being regarded as among the best defensive d-men in the game, despite a lack of physical edge to their game. These same shutdown d-men avoid bad or frequent injury due to their style of play, a further asset to their team. Lidstrom is one of only a handful of d-men in hockey history that can claim to have a team built around him and his style of play for an extended period of time. Whereas Bobby Orr was more or less in a league of his own and pretty much a one man team, Lidstrom, in my opinion, epitomizes the idea of building from the "defense out" more than any other d-man in the history of the NHL. Perhaps no coincidence that the Red Wings have been the most successful team in the NHL since the year he joined the club full time. You could also argue that Lidstrom is a HUGE force in the recognition of European hockey players in the NHL, in particular Swedish players. I would argue him as the 2nd most talented European player to play in the NHL (with Hasek being first), and by far the most successful (including being the first European to captain an NHL team to the cup). Not only is Lidstrom an embodiment of the defense first idea, but he's also the first player that comes to my mind when someone brings up the "European style" of hockey. I suspect this is the same for many people. Oh, and then there's his class and humility, a great asset not to just the game but to the business and spirit of hockey... Great read- thanks for posting this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Lidstrom claims Salming as his favorite/most influential player, does he not? Yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Lindstrom winning the poll on nhl.com right now Chara 33% Green 33% Lindstrom 34% Man, that would be 2 years in a row for that Phoenix guy! What's his salary? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted April 23, 2009 Lindstrom winning the poll on nhl.com right now Chara 33% Green 33% Lindstrom 34% I think we found the guy that customized the jerseys the kids were wearing on the awards show last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
