Niedermayer cheap shot and brawl

[kylee 727]

I'm not Holmstrom so I won't pretend to know exactly what he was doing. The only thing I can say about the Holmstrom elbow vs the Niedermayer elbow is that with Holmstrom, there's at least the notion that it could have been accidental. Nobody can confirm whether he really knew Wiz was there or not or whether it was intentional or not. It's unclear. But that leaves the window open to say it could have been accidental.

As for Niedermayer, the window and the door are shut, locked and boarded up. That was a vicious fecking elbow, thrown with malicious intent. Frankly, we're lucking Pavel has a visor and that it didn't catch him flush on the face. That's the kind of elbow, thrown with force that can crush an orbital bone and end your season.

the only reason Niedermayer shouldn't be suspended is because he didn't actually land the elbow on Datsyuk's face

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I'm not Holmstrom so I won't pretend to know exactly what he was doing. The only thing I can say about the Holmstrom elbow vs the Niedermayer elbow is that with Holmstrom, there's at least the notion that it could have been accidental. Nobody can confirm whether he really knew Wiz was there or not or whether it was intentional or not. It's unclear. But that leaves the window open to say it could have been accidental.

As for Niedermayer, the window and the door are shut, locked and boarded up. That was a vicious fecking elbow, thrown with malicious intent. Frankly, we're lucking Pavel has a visor and that it didn't catch him flush on the face. That's the kind of elbow, thrown with force that can crush an orbital bone and end your season.

Bingo. That's my point. Neidavacation escalated to the point that he could have seriously injured Pavel.

[b.shanafan14 733]

When this happened last night I was so pissed at our inability to fight back. Today, I'm not very concerned about what happened. Moreso I am just hating the vast majority of posters over on the Ducks forum.

These people think the Wings started that scrum last night and are crying about it because we got beat up. Seriously, they ******* think we started it!!!!!

Here's what I saw

Getzlaf hooks Hossa, no big deal.

Hossa, out of frustration puts a shoulder into Getzlaf, imo, this is also no big deal.

Both players get their arms up. Getzlaf is tough so he's a bit more aggressive. Eventually he throws 2 big haymaking rights. IMO, that's a bit of an excessive escalation but I don't really have much of a problem with it.

Meanwhile, if you watch behind all of this action you will see Datsyuk tie up Niedermayer. Nothing is going on there. They are simply hugging. No big deal. Somehow Niedermayer get turned around and Datsyuk still has him tied up from behind. Now I don't know how Neidermayer got turned around but if I had to guess, I would say he was just trying to get away from Datsyuk. If you read the Ducks' fans view, apparently Datsyuk was teeing off on Scott's head. Hmmm....right.....because that sounds just like Pavel Datsyuk. Especially considering nothing was going on between these two other than a hug. Of course then comes the infamous elbow. IMO, extremely excessive. It obviously caught Datsyuk unawares. Hell, he's not even looking in the direction the elbow comes from. He's looking towards the middle of the ice at the rest of the action. From the video its pretty clear Dats was just holding onto Niedermayer and he didn't like it and in his frustration in trying to get away he launched that elbow. Way excessive. As for the fight afterwards, I have no problem with it at all. Dats got up and took a swipe and they fought. No big deal. I will say I didn't like Todd Marchant grabbing ahold of Pavel. WTF was that necessary. When he grabs Pavel, Pavel's head is down, Niedermayer's head is up and Niedermayer is the one clearly throwing big punches. I guess Marchant thought Niedermayer was losing the fight? Marchant has no business getting into the middle of that and frankly, Lidstrom needed to pull his ass off. Not just hold him from behind. It didn't help at all.

The one fight that did piss me off the most was Perry on Rafalski. Watch the video, Rafalski is skating towards the scrum with the obvious intent to grab ahold of somebody. Perry sees him, Rafalski is not paying any attention to Perry and right as he gets to the pile Perry graps him from the left and spins him around. Now Rafalski didn't expect that and I have no problem with it. Perry is just keeping another Wing from joining the scrum. The problem I have is, and the camera moves away, is what followed next to the point that Rafalski still has his gloves on and Perry is teeing off on him? WTF happened? Again, an overly excessive response from a Duck. And frankly, we all know Corey Perry is a spot picker.

I guess when you can't beat up a 6-5 Jonathan Ericsson, the next best thing to do is beat up 5-9 Brian Rafalski.

For the Ducks fans who think we started all this. I'm sorry, Putting a shoulder into a guy who is hooking you doesn't equate to drop all your gloves and start beating the tar out of a bunch of non fighters.

And Duck fans wonder why they get a bad rap. And they wonder why the Flyers get a bad rap. How ******* hilarious. The Ducks had 82 goddamned fighting majors this year and have a bunch of very tough, very physical guys. I don't mind that at all. But when Ryan Getzlaf wants to fight Marian Hossa and Corey Perry beats up Brian Rafalski, you're going to have a bad rep because that's horses***.

THANK YOU GS&T

For those who honestly think that scrum was good ol' fashioned hockey, nothing cheap, just winners and losers, you are sorely mistaken. It was cheap gooning on the Ducks part, which they have done all series, every series and gotten away with.

-Elbow on Datsyuk was vicious and should have been reviewed.

-Getzlaf loves to overreact, and gets away with a couple gloved haymakers.

-Perry is the most putrid, advantageous, sneaky coward I've ever seen in the league.

[czech80 0]

For the record I am a Caps fan so my loyalties (and hates) are on the other side of the NHL (i.e. Eastern Conference).

I was watching last night and even I got pissed off at the end of that game. Yes, its the playoffs and teams get emotional but here is what I saw:

1) Hossa gets hooked by Getzlaf and the two tangle up. Few bumps/ shoves exchanged.

2) No gloves are dropped and Getzlaf starts swinging (very brave to take surprise shots before the other guy even drops hist stick). Hossa does not really look like he is trying to engage.

3) They are separated. Perry takes the opportunity to tackle and attack a recently injured player (Rafalski) who has a reputation of being a clean player and never fighting.

4) Rafalski turtles (I do not blame him) and Perry continues to throw punches on the ground (enforcers even frown on this).

5) Hossa comes in to pull Perry off (not even violently) and Getzlaf runs right in trying to start again.

6) On the side, Niedermayer (VERY INTENTIONALLY) elbows Datsyuk in the face/head and they tangle.

In a nut shell, players with crap reputations on a team with a crap reputation took runs and unprovoked attacks on purely skill and clean players (Datsyuk, Rafalski, Hossa). Maybe Perry and Getzlaf are "skill players" but they are also goons.

Yes, fighting is part of hockey. However, Bettman and Campbell's incompetence and inconsistency now allows runs on skill players without fear of retribution. They do not allow teams to police themselves nor do they do any policing (Brown on Hudler was identical to Brashear on Betts yet one was ignored).

Personally, I hope the Wings annihilate the Ducks and next season in one random game, they bring up some AHL/ECHL goons and in the words of Lindy Ruff, "Go out and run 'em."

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I didn't like Niedermayer's elbow whatsoever, but it didn't seem "intentional" any more than Holmstrom's on Wis earlier in the series. And I give massive props to Datsyuk for going with him afterward. Neither of them are fighters, but it was good for both teams that their main leaders stepped up.

That's a joke, right? Niedermayer looks right at Datsyuk's face, pulls his elbow sideways, and pounds him with it - but it doesn't look intentional?

[mjlegend 155]

To sum it up in one word, Ducks clearly "instigated" by taking cheap shots liberties after the whistle.

I doubt the league will bat an eye, which is really a shame. What happen last night is a disgrace to the National Hockey League.

After the whistle beatdowns and suckerpunches are very likely the kind of stuff that keep the NHL on Versus in the US. Few inside or outside of the sport can understand how this and the Walker suckerpunch can possibly unpenalized by the league office.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The ironic thing is how strongly the NHL was telling everyone that they would punish teams that "try to send a message" and how "message sending" wouldn't be tolerated in the playoffs. They even went so far as to contact every GM and tell them they wouldn't tolerate it.

What happens? They flap their gums and lack the balls to enforce the rules when it's tough to do so.

No one gives a f*** if Brasher or a fourth liner like that is suspended for games 1 and 2 of a series. If the NHL doesn't have the testicular fortitude to ban an impact player who clearly disregards the rules and attacks another player after the clock on the game runs out- no one is going to follow the rules.

Colin Campbell and Gary Bettman are a pair of slobbering *******.

[kidish 0]

That's a joke, right? Niedermayer looks right at Datsyuk's face, pulls his elbow sideways, and pounds him with it - but it doesn't look intentional?

I haven't watched the triple slow-mo recap or anything, just the standard replay from Versus, but I didn't notice Niedermayer looking up at Datsyuk before the elbow. His back and head were turned and coming around, following the elbow...hey, I could be wrong. I thought the exact same thing with the Holmstrom elbow: it was cruddy he threw it--and he meant to throw it--but by no means was it intentionally aimed at that guy's face, per se.

I'm just giving my opinion though, I'm not saying I really know one thing or another with certainty.

I thought GordieSid&Ted's post was pretty great.

[ben_usmc 253]

Have Downey go all goalie style on Getzlaf next game

[Ms_Hockey 0]

You cannot debate this logic. Homer elbowed a guy who a: was already on his way to the emergecy room and b: was not even making a play on him. Then he hid and did not answer the call. Brad May lined up for a likely beating from Bootgard because he hurt a Wild player the year before. That is the code.

Neidermyer said "get the f*** off me" and his elbow caught the guy square. He then stood there like a man and let datsucks do something about it. Didn't run away. Now you don't let the guy get a free shot back, but you give him the chance because you crossed a line.

The lack of real toughness in the Europussies was exposed. You can do whatever you want to their stars as long as you don't mind the penalties. If the Europussies pp wasn't so deadly, teams would abuse them ten times over.

Apparently, Nieds' elbow is justified because he stood there and didn't run away after.

I'm saying he shouldn't have been standing there. Stand somewhere else.

Oh, and I guess that's why the elbow was deserved. Datsyuk should NOT have been standing there.

[zata20 4]

I'm sick of talking about this crap. Who cares anymore? Yes it was cheap, but lets get over it and worry about the next game! Actually not worry because WE WILL WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kylee 727]

I'm sick of talking about this crap. Who cares anymore? Yes it was cheap, but lets get over it and worry about the next game! Actually not worry because WE WILL WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i care cause im tired of the Ducks cheap-shotting and by and large getting away with it.

Niedermayer should be suspended. The intent to injure was there, what does it matter if his elbow landed or not?

[Guest micah]

The ironic thing is how strongly the NHL was telling everyone that they would punish teams that "try to send a message" and how "message sending" wouldn't be tolerated in the playoffs. They even went so far as to contact every GM and tell them they wouldn't tolerate it.

What happens? They flap their gums and lack the balls to enforce the rules when it's tough to do so.

No one gives a f*** if Brasher or a fourth liner like that is suspended for games 1 and 2 of a series. If the NHL doesn't have the testicular fortitude to ban an impact player who clearly disregards the rules and attacks another player after the clock on the game runs out- no one is going to follow the rules.

Colin Campbell and Gary Bettman are a pair of slobbering *******.

I agree with all of this. there is no reason that "the rules", whatever they are, are not applied 100% consistantly and without taking into acount emotions, game situation or player reputation. It should not be more wrong for a guy like Brashear to get his elbows up on a hit than it is for Kopecky to do so, it shouldn't be more okay for a guy like Niedermier to throw an elbow with no time remaining in a close playoff game than it is for Derek Boogaard to do the same after a 7-2 blowout in September.

[Guest micah]

i care cause im tired of the Ducks cheap-shotting and by and large getting away with it.

Niedermayer should be suspended. The intent to injure was there, what does it matter if his elbow landed or not?

again, I doubt very much that it was scott's intention to injure Pavel. He likely just wanted him off his back. If he wanted to injure him, there are lots of ways that he would have had a better chance of doing so than with an over-the-shoulder elbow.

[wingslogo19 281]

There's no doubt that was cheap and dirty, and there should be a suspension. I don't think the NHL will even take a look at it to be honest. If Walker didn't get a suspension for the sucker punch no way will Scott get one. If anything he'll get a fine and that's it. Don't think it's right at all but just saying what the NHL will do if anything at all

[NHLrules? 32]

Bottom line:

Ducks will continue this style of hockey till we make them pay for it.

We need to score on the PP.

We all know the league looks the other way unless you go after one of the darlings of the game. Its simple and Carlyle is smart for doing this. If I were the ducks coach Id do the same thing.

What do you expect him to do, tell his guys to go out and skate with the Wings? To try and out play them? That would be a terrible strategy. Instead he tells them to go out and rough it up, muck up the middle and take their chances. Its really pretty simple.

Stop talking about this, nothing will come of it. Unless our guys show up tomorrow and play their game, its over.

BTW: If I was Babcock I would have claimed Pavel was injured by the cheap shot and annouce he may not be available due to concussion like symptoms, pending a game time decision by the team doctor.

Yes this is a dbag move, but is a way to put the wood to the NHL and make them enforce their crazy injury rule. It would also send a message to other teams that if you want to be cheapshot artists, we can be scumbags too.

Edited May 13, 2009 by NHLrules?

[kylee 727]

Stop talking about this, nothing will come of it. Unless our guys show up tomorrow and play their game, its over.

concise and pithy enough!

As much as the Ducks are goons, the Wings just have to make it happen tomorrow regardless of how cheap and dirty the Ducks play.

[kidish 0]

Bottom line:

Ducks will continue this style of hockey till we make them pay for it.

We need to score on the PP.

...

BTW: If I was Babcock I would have claimed Pavel was injured by the cheap shot and annouce he may not be available due to concussion like symptoms, pending a game time decision by the team doctor.

Yes this is a dbag move, but is a way to put the wood to the NHL and make them enforce their crazy injury rule. It would also send a message to other teams that if you want to be cheapshot artists, we can be scumbags too.

Absolutely, your first part is spot on. How do you beat the goon-style play? Beat them, send them home.

I only say this as a devil's advocate, but Carlyle could have done the same with his defenseman, saying he had a lung contusion AND a broken nose. (Even then, Kronwall broke Carter's nose with a jumping elbow...no call. So injury may not matter.)

The Wings just need to go out and beat them, then what happened will turn into a rallying cry for your organization and they'll be left licking their hurts.

[12Newf 0]

I'll start by saying that I don't agree with micah 100% of the time, but this time I most certainly do.

Playoff hockey (well hockey in general) will always have this sort of behavior - whether it be during the game, or at the very end...Players need to step up for 1 another when these scrums break out; standing around, and watching your teammate/s be manhandled is pretty sad.

i agree, and i was not impressed with hossa being so scared s***less of getzlaf or lidstrom hardly even tying anyone up. i dont expect them to drop the gloves but someone should have come to pavel's aid instead of the refs.

[Vladifan 680]

If you believe in karma, the Wings will win tomorrow night, even if it's the instant-gratification-kind of karma. If you believe in justice, the Wings will win tomorrow night.

If you believe that the best thing that can happen to the cheapshot, after-the-whistle, goon-oriented hotdog Ducks is that they lose tomorrow night after all that nasty, hard work of beating on their opponents then you're a real hockey fan.

I honestly don't know who I disrespect more right now. The Ducks or Bettman and Campbell.

[kidish 0]

I honestly don't know who I disrespect more right now. The Ducks or Bettman and Campbell.

Because Anaheim is the ONLY team in this series who has played dirty or has given out some cheap shots, right?

[ducks4cup 0]

What is not shown in this video is Pav face washing Nieds and delivering 3-4 rapid soft punches to the side of his head. The VS video clip shows a lot more.....

[ducks4cup 0]

Because Anaheim is the ONLY team in this series who has played dirty or has given out some cheap shots, right?

x2.....

I try not to be one sided and it's hard b/c EVERY fan is one sided towards their team. But lets face it BOTH teams have been taking cheap/ dirty shots on each other.

[Vladifan 680]

Because Anaheim is the ONLY team in this series who has played dirty or has given out some cheap shots, right?

No, but they sure as hell have got to be first in that category. In the regular season, they were the "highest-rated" team in penalties. Our Wings are playing them right now. They are taking cheapshots and consistently getting away with them. NO team in the league gets away with not being called as much as the Ducks do. And the irony of hearing one of the announcers last night saying that the Ducks are staying away from the penalties was not even laughable., it was sickening. It was stupid and naive. I HATE THEM and I hope they lose so badly they don't forget it till they put skates back on next fall.

Hope that answers your question. Have a nice day.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Does anyone know if the league has addressed last night's actions at all yet?