Sorry to say but....

[maltbymaniac 13]

this is a major issue.will it be fixed,prolly not. so i just try to roll with it and ***** about it to someone who will actually listen.

seems like vs and fsd announcers all complain,i bet most of the leagues announcers complain to,but what can ya do........

[Hank 0]

In most situations I'd say, "what do you expect?"......but the last two games have been bad........REALLY BAD. So much so that if the Wings didn't pull out that win tonight, I probably would have been done with the NHL for good. That non call on Pronger, then that call on Stuart, then the blatant numerous penalties on Homer in front of the net....but the one that made me go over the top was the Hudler penalty for getting cross-checked into Hiller and being called "interference". Man o man, if that costed us the game, the NHL would be dead to me.

Note to NHL: FIRE EVERY SINGLE NHL REF AND BRING UP AHL REFS.

I have to agree. I didn't really see a problem with the first 5 games of this series. And the other series' have been pretty good too.

You're going to get chincy calls and sometimes a hook or grab is missed.

But it drives me nuts when one team is allowed to get away with overly flagrant stuff but the other team isn't.

All the examples you gave are perfect ones.

I have no problem if the refs are going to allow interference and body slamming as long as both sides benefit from the lax rules. But to see Pronger get away with one thing and the minutes later we're called for the same infraction is maddening. (even the Ducks radio announcers admitted that Pronger got lucky in not being penalized for the Datsyuk interference in game 6 and the suplex on Hossa last night).

And that Hudler call was pathetic. But what drives me nuts is then the refs try to 'even it up' by giving out make-up calls. That gives them even less credibility. I thought the slashing call on Getzlaf was a weak one and Selanne's holding call was brutal. He barely touched him.

But the refs were doing whatever they could to make up for the Hudler call and the several non-Pronger calls.

Like you said though, the first 5 games weren't bad. They were fine. It's just the last 2 that were so horrible and it really seemed that Pronger, specifically, had free reign to do whatever he wanted.

And it's funny that he was rarely penalized in this series at all. The guy was voted the dirtiest player by his peers recently and somehow he walks away with less minor penalties than Zetterberg in this series.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Hank

[Rocket Queen 30 1]

See, this is a terrible attitude to me. Stick your head in the sand and let them get away with as much crap as they want as long as we somehow pull it out. It doesn't hold them accountable and NEXT time, we may lose because we didn't raise holy hell.

"We" as in RedWings management.

The NHL is giddy because they got away with letting the Ducks do virtually anything they wanted, just to keep them in the series and keep it interesting. Now the national media is saying, "what a great series!"

BS. The Wings would have won this series in 5 games, going away, if the reffing was anywhere based on reality.

I hear what you're saying, but this is adversity. It sucks, but it happens. Are you going to say that in life, if someone, or a group of someones screw you over, (and they will) that any amount of bitching is going to change anything? Overcoming adversity is part of what makes winning so great. Let's not waste this precious time of glee on fruitless anger over bad officiating, and most definitely let's not be cry babies. Our team won and they're grrrrreat!

[talex 1]

I have watched to many games with people new to hockey who sometimes get frustrated watching and feel you could flip a coin during the playoff's because the refs have such a power over the outcome of the game making it hard for them to vest in the sport.

I'm with the guys that want Coaches to be allowed to challenge, it would not slow down the game as there is usually already a stoppage in play. If the Coach wins, the call goes in his favor, if he looses, he has to put a player in the box and the opposition gets a power play or a 5 on 3 etc. It would not slow down the game and the pp aspect would force the coach to use these wisely, at least if the NHL implemented this the pressure would be on the coach and add a new aspect to the game, I'm all for it.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

When you're watching a hockey game, are you in a rush to get it over with? Who cares if it takes an extra 15-20 minutes to end because coaches would be able to challenge 3 plays. Wouldn't getting at least 3 major calls corrected be worth the extra time? I wouldn't have mined one bit waiting 15 minutes for the refs/Toronto to review Hossa's goal in Game 3 if there was the option for Babs to challenge the call. Why? Because it obviously would have had to be over turned, causing the game to go into over time, and giving the wings a chance to take game 3.

Wouldn't bother me if it meant getting the call right but I would only give them 1 challenge and if they get it right they earn a 2nd. I don't want them getting carried away with the challenges if they were to implement them.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

Another thing I didn't see anyone else bring up is that refs blow calls in the nfl and nba all the time. I don't watch baseball but I'm sure the calls get screwed up in that sport too. Does anyone remember Ed Hochuli blowing that call in the Denver Broncos game last year?

It happens so you have to roll with the punches and since it happens they should allow challenges so the game changing calls can be made correctly.

[Rivalred 630]

Anyone else watch the Canes/Bruins in OT last night? There should of been a s*** load of calls that were called in our series, but the zebras swallowed their whistles.

Just saying...

[DenSter 0]

I'm with the guys that want Coaches to be allowed to challenge, it would not slow down the game as there is usually already a stoppage in play.

I agree, what's wrong with a little extra stoppage if that means they get a chance to correct an obvious mistake, like the disallowed goal. I don't think you should get penalty minutes when a challange is not help up, but maybe loss of time-out, like in football.

[Vladifan 680]

I often give hockey refs the benefit of the doubt because of the speed of the game. But when Pronger took down Hossa, that happened in real time. There is no excuse for the ref NOT SEEING THAT and calling it. Absolutely none. Good angle, good distance. And it's pretty much the same with Pronger pushing Hudler into Hiller.

And when a ref's decision or non-call could affect the outcome of the game there has to be a way to re-investigate it.

I know it would be iffy to have replays. But there ought to be a way - even in spite of the refs' egos - that they can get together after a questionable call and talk it over. It would only serve to raise their credibility for a change. The quick whistle on Hossa's goal directly affected the outcome of that game. THERE'S GOT TO BE A WAY FOR DISCUSSION OR REPLAY TO HAPPEN in these circumstances.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Vladifan

[Wings = Stanley 0]

Besides all the missed calls, did anyone notice the fact that Hank got thrown out of 80% of his face-off attemps?

[Datsyerberger 279]

In the playoffs, the officials have a tendency to call games "even" rather than call them "fair". The ability to distinguish the difference between the two and realize how it benefits dirtier teams like the Ducks is important in realizing how much more potent such teams can become in the playoffs.

I don't bother complaining about it too much, aside from individual incidents where the official is clearly a dumbass (see: all of last game, early whistle from Watson). A cup-worthy team should be able to overcome that sort of adversity.

[Decoy Jones 0]

I agree, what's wrong with a little extra stoppage if that means they get a chance to correct an obvious mistake, like the disallowed goal. I don't think you should get penalty minutes when a challange is not help up, but maybe loss of time-out, like in football.

But giving a penalty covers both side of the issue. Games are allowed to continue with some amount of flow. Then if something major (I mean change the tide of the game major) happens, it goes to review.

[Nightfall 871]

I have to agree. I didn't really see a problem with the first 5 games of this series. And the other series' have been pretty good too.

You're going to get chincy calls and sometimes a hook or grab is missed.

But it drives me nuts when one team is allowed to get away with overly flagrant stuff but the other team isn't.

All the examples you gave are perfect ones.

I have no problem if the refs are going to allow interference and body slamming as long as both sides benefit from the lax rules. But to see Pronger get away with one thing and the minutes later we're called for the same infraction is maddening. (even the Ducks radio announcers admitted that Pronger got lucky in not being penalized for the Datsyuk interference in game 6 and the suplex on Hossa last night).

And that Hudler call was pathetic. But what drives me nuts is then the refs try to 'even it up' by giving out make-up calls. That gives them even less credibility. I thought the slashing call on Getzlaf was a weak one and Selanne's holding call was brutal. He barely touched him.

But the refs were doing whatever they could to make up for the Hudler call and the several non-Pronger calls.

Like you said though, the first 5 games weren't bad. They were fine. It's just the last 2 that were so horrible and it really seemed that Pronger, specifically, had free reign to do whatever he wanted.

And it's funny that he was rarely penalized in this series at all. The guy was voted the dirtiest player by his peers recently and somehow he walks away with less minor penalties than Zetterberg in this series.

It always impresses me when I see someone on this forum post something like this. A lot of wings fans just want partisan Wings officials. Very few people can really look beyond their fan support and into a game deeply. I really have a lot of respect for true Wings fans that can do this.

I do agree, there was a big inconsistancy when it came to the reffing in the last two games. Kind of ironic being as that when it came to the game 7 refs people were cheering about them and about how we weren't going to get screwed.

In the end, calls were missed on BOTH SIDES. Reffing mistakes were made when it came to both teams. Yes, Pronger had a license to do what he wanted. The takedown of Hossa behind the net was a no brainer to me. There were 1 or 2 times where he committed interference as well. Still, the Wings played their game as well. Franzen getting hit on the back of the leg and going down like he was in a broadway play? Whats funny is that every Wings fan stood up and said that was a legit call. I laughed because that happens all the time. That shouldn't have been called and we scored on that power play. Thats just one example for both sides. I counted a few others for both sides while watching that were dives or attempts to draw penalties that weren't.

In the end, its a 7 game series. If one team plays to their potential, then it doesn't come down to these calls. The better team usually comes out on top after a 7 game series. In this series, the Wings showed up to Game 1, did well in game 2, slouched in game 3, came back in game 4 and 5, and slouched in game 6. In every game they slouched, they deserved to lose. If they played at the same tempo in every game, then they would have beaten the ducks in 5 or 6 games. If they would have lost game 7, people here would have blamed the refs, but I would have blamed the Wings for slacking because that is just what happened in 2 of their 3 losses. When you don't show up for 50 minutes in a game and try to make a game of it in the last 10 minutes, you are going to lose a majority of the time.

Lets hope they learned their lesson for the next series.

The NHL refs have a hard job in front of them. The game moves so fast, and as a ice hockey ref, I can't imagine how hard it is to call a game in the NHL. Rec league is fast enough for me. Yes, they made mistakes, but they are human. Oh, the the NHL game is so much better than it was back in the pre-lockout era. I can't stand watching clutch and grab hockey anymore which is why my love for the college game has went downhill.

[Lancz 0]

+1

Totally agree. Lets slow down a fast paced game, maybe have 6 periods/ intermissions too... hell with that.

I think it's a great idea to give the coaches the ability to challenge a play be it a penalty or goal. It would probably make refs make less questionable calls making the game smoother and faster if they had someone looking over their shoulder. As it is now, at times it's a call every other minute slowing the game down instead of letting them play hockey. Other times they let them play hockey. If you let a team play hockey against a team that plays dirty like the ducks, most likely the ducks would come out ahead. Overall it's very inconsistent.

I just know I would rather have multiple people decide on a questionable call. Instead of one guy decide in a split second, in a fast paced game (Hossa's non-goal for instance). I honestly cannot see why any fan could not want this. Especially during the playoffs! The NHL wouldn't want to change it because then they would be admitting that they were wrong all along. Since they always "stand behind the decision of the ref", because they are the best in all of sports, blah, blah...

It's been pretty obvious to me that the NHL will attempt to keep games close and sometimes penalties come easier to the team that is ahead... Couldn't this be considered rigging the game? It is hard to watch hockey sometimes, but I love the Wings too much not to. I just wish there was something that could actually be done as a fan to give a coach the chance to challenge poor calls other than post on a forum.

[pirateasaurus 0]

Man, nobody here is giving up the nhl.

Yes, the officiating is very frustrating at times but people need to keep in mind that hockey is very fast and things happen so quickly and the refs do not get the benefit of a replay like we do. It's real easy to watch these replays in slow motion then get all up in a frenzy over how weak of a call it was but when refs only get one chance to make these calls, in real time, and from only ONE angle, mistakes are goin to be made. The rule changes after the lockout just really make this much more frequent as officiating became a larger factor in the games. But to suggest that coaches should get "challenges" or that all penalties should be reviewable is complete nonsense. That would be horrendous.

Every year we go through this.

[Glubki 17]

I just want the league to get it right in the playoffs. They have taken the first step with the goal reviews but the nets need to have more than the overhead and rear view cameras and the intent to blow the whistle crap needs to be reviewable.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Glubki

[Holmstrom96 347]

Is this your first playoffs?

This is so ingrained in the NHL they actually have a term for it, play off hockey.

The rules change in every aspect of the game.

It sucks, but it is how this *** ass league does it.

Same thing Bettman did in basketball when players coud run from the freethrow line as long as they dunk.

This is NOT play-off hockey. Play-off hockey still has equal rules for both teams. How much crap did we see Pronger do last night? Holding, cross-checks, slashes, constant interference with Holmstrom. And how many penalties did Pronger get? ZERO. Not even one.

The officiating was bull-crap last game.

[Nightfall 871]

This is NOT play-off hockey. Play-off hockey still has equal rules for both teams. How much crap did we see Pronger do last night? Holding, cross-checks, slashes, constant interference with Holmstrom. And how many penalties did Pronger get? ZERO. Not even one.

The officiating was bull-crap last game.

Funny you mention only the Ducks infractions and none on the Wings. Are you saying that the Wings committed no infractions that weren't called?

Bring a Ducks fan into the room with you to watch a game and you will see perception is about 50/50.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Nightfall

[theman19 47]

Funny you mention only the Ducks infractions and none on the Wings. Are you saying that the Wings committed no infractions that weren't called?

Bring a Ducks fan into the room with you to watch a game and you will see perception is about 50/50.

While it's true that there were blown calls on both sides this series, the ones against the wings were truly brutal. The no goal against hossa prolonged this series by a game more than likley, and the Chrisy Pronger catapaulting hudler into Hiller was just stupid. The goonery that happened at the end of ducks homes games, the cheap shots,..it was all Major.

you point to the stuff the wings got away with,...you're talking about diving and obstruction versus intent to injure, your argument doesn't hold water given that the missesed calls in favor of the ducks greatly helped them.

Edited May 15, 2009 by theman19

[Nightfall 871]

While it's true that there were blown calls on both sides this series, the ones against the wings were truly brutal. The no goal against hossa prolonged this series by a game more than likley, and the Chrisy Pronger catapaulting hudler into Hiller was just stupid. The goonery that happened at the end of ducks homes games, the cheap shots,..it was all Major.

you point to the stuff the wings got away with,...you're talking about diving and obstruction versus intent to injure, your argument doesn't hold water given that the missesed calls in favor of the ducks greatly helped them.

Yes, the ones against the wings were brutal, but as if the ones against the ducks werent? What about the apparent slashing call on Getzlaf on Franzen? Franzen so sold that call, and we got a power play goal out of it. Wasn't that a brutal goal?

You make it sound like the Wings were the only screwed party here, which is such crap.

On the flip side though, I will agree that Pronger got away with too damn much thats for sure. I don't remember him getting any minor penalties in this series, and considering he was tying up people behind the net and wrestling them down, that was egregious.

As I said before, its easy to point at instances and say the Wings got screwed. I can do the same for the Ducks and I am not a Ducks fan. You mention the Hossa no goal, ok, I can understand that since it was blown early. On the flip side, you have the final goal that Cleary scored. Good goal or not? What about the goal where Cleary was in the paint with his leg behind Hillers? Good goal or goalie interference?

If you replayed all the games 5 times, you would have different calls coming from different refs who did the game. Even the same refs would not have gotten every call right 5 separate times.

As I said before, sit a Ducks fan in the same room as you and have a friendly conversation with him over a beer and watch a game like Game 7. You will have him bitching about non calls and interference as much as the Wings fans are going to ***** about the same thing. Another thing you can do is to attend a hockey game you care nothing about and just count how many penalties you would call in the course of a game. Its amazing when you aren't blinded by fandom just how much more sane you are when it comes to refs calling the game and the state of the NHL game as it is today.

[Lancz 0]

Man, nobody here is giving up the nhl.

Yes, the officiating is very frustrating at times but people need to keep in mind that hockey is very fast and things happen so quickly and the refs do not get the benefit of a replay like we do. It's real easy to watch these replays in slow motion then get all up in a frenzy over how weak of a call it was but when refs only get one chance to make these calls, in real time, and from only ONE angle, mistakes are goin to be made. The rule changes after the lockout just really make this much more frequent as officiating became a larger factor in the games. But to suggest that coaches should get "challenges" or that all penalties should be reviewable is complete nonsense. That would be horrendous.

Every year we go through this.

Yes because having the correct call be made would be truly "horrendous"

It's total "nonsense" in other sports when a poor call is corrected by reviewing it for 30-90 seconds...

What kind of "idiot" would want consitent calls in the NHL?

[clutchngrab 12]

On freep.com, "the other side" article, all of the ducks were quoted as complaining that cleary pushed the goalie into the net with the puck. I don't see how they can say that. Maybe they hadn't watched the replay yet, becuase that didn't happen at all.

It amazes me that the ducks gripe at all about the refereeing. But whatever. Thank God we won that series. It would have been a tragedy if we hadn't.

The Ducks have a very good strategy that involves intimidating the s***ty refs as much as possible and practicing playing on the edge for the majority of the season in preparation for the playoffs. Then when the playoffs roll around they are masterful at all the thuggery, obstruction, etc. that they have practiced all season for "playoff hockey". The NHL is horribly officiated and until it figures it out will all ways be a 2nd tier (or worse) sport.

[Nightfall 871]

The Ducks have a very good strategy that involves intimidating the s***ty refs as much as possible and practicing playing on the edge for the majority of the season in preparation for the playoffs. Then when the playoffs roll around they are masterful at all the thuggery, obstruction, etc. that they have practiced all season for "playoff hockey". The NHL is horribly officiated and until it figures it out will all ways be a 2nd tier (or worse) sport.

As I said before, its amazing how things just even out in a series. The puck that was whistled dead early that Hossa tapped in for an apparent goal in game 3 is a good example. Wings fans bitched, and Ducks fans cheered. Here in game 7, a similar situation. Did Cleary push his pad and the puck into the net? Do the Ducks have a legit beef? Yea, they probably do. Just as we had a legit beef about the Hossa non goal. It all evened out though and the better team won in the end which is what a seven game series is supposed to accomplish.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Nightfall

[bonan78 1]

I have watched to many games with people new to hockey who sometimes get frustrated watching and feel you could flip a coin during the playoff's because the refs have such a power over the outcome of the game making it hard for them to vest in the sport.

I'm with the guys that want Coaches to be allowed to challenge, it would not slow down the game as there is usually already a stoppage in play. If the Coach wins, the call goes in his favor, if he looses, he has to put a player in the box and the opposition gets a power play or a 5 on 3 etc. It would not slow down the game and the pp aspect would force the coach to use these wisely, at least if the NHL implemented this the pressure would be on the coach and add a new aspect to the game, I'm all for it.

+1, excellent idea. talex for Commissioner!

Great idea, give the coaches 1 challenge per period, if the challenge is unsuccessful, the team gets a bench minor. I think this would eliminate a lot of the controversy that has been happening lately. Make everything challengeable, like the "intent to blow", penalties, goals, etc. Not only would the game not suffer (a coach isn't going to risk being short-handed unless he is sure he will overturn the call) but it would ensure that horrible officiating does not influence the outcome of playoff games and series.

[Nightfall 871]

+1, excellent idea. talex for Commissioner!

Great idea, give the coaches 1 challenge per period, if the challenge is unsuccessful, the team gets a bench minor. I think this would eliminate a lot of the controversy that has been happening lately. Make everything challengeable, like the "intent to blow", penalties, goals, etc. Not only would the game not suffer (a coach isn't going to risk being short-handed unless he is sure he will overturn the call) but it would ensure that horrible officiating does not influence the outcome of playoff games and series.

I love this idea as well. I don't know about making everything challengable....because there are certain penalties in the NFL that can't be challenged, but I do like the idea. Could you imagine the refs being challenged to review a play where a player "dove" in order to get a call?

I just don't like the idea of slowing the game down though. Maybe eventually, refs won't be on the ice but be up in the press box watching the monitors. It would be easier to pick out these penalties with the use of slow motion. Then again, that just wouldn't be hockey now would it?