Holland "Not Optimistic" about re-signing Hossa

[gcom007 1,465]

"not be able to pick up Hossa's production"

REALLY???

When it REALLY matters: Filppula had 16 points in the playoffs, Hudler had 12 points in the playoffs, Hossa had 15 points in the playoffs.. Hossa had a VERY disappointing playoff performance.... and it is his own fault he didn't get a ring!!!

There is a reason Hossa doesn't have a ring...... He is NOT a playoff guy who can take a team to a championship..... Regular season means SQUAT in the playoffs. I would rather have a player like Dallas Drake than a prima donna like Hossa in the playoffs ANYDAY!

Hossa will never get a ring!

He was a Playoff guy in '08. Datsyuk's had his off years. Z's had his off years. They're still superstars. These are the guys with the most potential to do damage and score GOALS. Hossa still scored twice as many GOALS (those things that go on the scoreboard and win games) than Flip in the playoffs. Meanwhile, it was considered Flips best outing and Hossa's worst. Hmmmmm, think about that for a second...then consider Flips secondary assists. Then consider how many points Flip would have if not centering Hossa.

And Prima Donna? Goodness. Your analysis of this whole situation is nothing short of absurd. It'd be easy to go on and on but it's not worth it. Quite simply, you're just wrong.

[datterberg1340 626]

Can't see this happening w/o Holland having to get rid of other players off the roster, if this were happening next year it might have been able to happen. Of course next year the cap will probably go down, the only reason it didn't this year is because the NHLPA exercised the 5% cap inflator, if they hadn't the cap would've dropped this year by about $2.5 mil.

I think/hope we will let Hossa, Sammy, Hudler, and Kopecky walk, and re-sign Leino and Downey and then go for a guy like Lappy who, much as I dislike him now, would be the Drake type of player we could use to toughen us up a bit plus he's never won a Cup before

the line-up, if I had a say in it and considering the cap, could be:

Z- Pavel- Homer

Mule- Flip- Cleary

Leino- Helm- Lappy

Maltby- Draper- Downey/Abdelkader

Lids- Raf

Kronner- Stuart

Lilja(if healthy)- Ericsson

spares- Meech, Lebda

Ozzie, Howard

I could live with that line-up, less scoring overall, but this coming year I want to see a better effort defensively and a better PK; I hope that Holland and Co. realize that other team's strategy against us, particulary in the playoffs, is to beat on us physically- we have to get some more grit to help counter this strategy, I want this team to be harder to play against physically

[gcom007 1,465]

And you don't have an assist without a goal. Doesn't matter to me if a player has nothing but secondary assists, as long as the points are there.

Sometimes it makes sense to say that, sometimes secondary assists especially are quite misleading. At the end of the day, GOALS win games. There are very few people in the league capable of scoring more GOALS than Hossa. If we play at all like we did last year as a team and he's not around, believe me, his presence will be sorely missed by the biggest of Hossa haters here.

[gcom007 1,465]

Can't see this happening w/o Holland having to get rid of other players off the roster, if this were happening next year it might have been able to happen. Of course next year the cap will probably go down, the only reason it didn't this year is because the NHLPA exercised the 5% cap inflator, if they hadn't the cap would've dropped this year by about $2.5 mil.

I think/hope we will let Hossa, Sammy, Hudler, and Kopecky walk, and re-sign Leino and Downey and then go for a guy like Lappy who, much as I dislike him now, would be the Drake type of player we could use to toughen us up a bit plus he's never won a Cup before

the line-up, if I had a say in it and considering the cap, could be:

Z- Pavel- Homer

Mule- Flip- Cleary

Leino- Helm- Lappy

Maltby- Draper- Downey/Abdelkader

Lids- Raf

Kronner- Stuart

Lilja(if healthy)- Ericsson

spares- Meech, Lebda

Ozzie, Howard

I could live with that line-up, less scoring overall, but this coming year I want to see a better effort defensively and a better PK; I hope that Holland and Co. realize that other team's strategy against us, particulary in the playoffs, is to beat on us physically- we have to get some more grit to help counter this strategy, I want this team to be harder to play against physically

I like Downey and all as some face in an interview and when he's in a fight, but come on, on his best days, Downey is not the guy who's going to be the key to this teams success. Sure, he adds grit, but he also hurts us in many other ways. If they want a guy who can stand up for guys, they need a guy who can at least play the game as well too and that costs some money. Maybe they decide to go in that direction and spend it, but again, Downey is not the answer. I wish he was for his sake and because I like the guy, but it is what it is.

[gcom007 1,465]

And do any of you really think we can replace Sammy for $1.2 million or whatever it is he's paid? Do you have any idea how little that gets you these days? Heaven help anyone who does replace him from the outside....if you think Sammy's bad for the money, you've really got a swift kick from reality coming straight for your head.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

Riddle me this.. just kidding, but Hossa signs a 1 year deal somewhere else then comes back after 2010 for his $6Million cap hit when Lids comes off the books/significantly lowers his salary?

Kopy, Sammy, Huds should ALL be allowed to walk. Re-sig Conklin only if he plays at the same rate of pay, sorry, no offense, but need the extra cap room, so no raise. Let Howard go on waivers, or trade him right now. With the $1.5million we have (after Helm/Leino/Abby/Conklin/Erisson are factored in) we can a a reliable 3rd or 4th liner for sure...

[RedFX 48]

Flash back one year ago....Wings have the Cup -> Hossa signs a one-year deal with the Wings -> LGW applauds his decision to leave money on the table to play for a good team -> Posters herald him as "unselfish" and "a true team player"

Today...Wings fall two posts short of winning the Cup -> Hossa has a subpar postseason despite a great regular season -> In a move most people thought would happen last year, Hossa may not resign due to the cap -> Posters call Hossa "a cancer" and "a prima donna" who will "never win a cup"

Versus was right...The Cup Changes everything!!!

[LeftWinger 4,964]

And do any of you really think we can replace Sammy for $1.2 million or whatever it is he's paid? Do you have any idea how little that gets you these days? Heaven help anyone who does replace him from the outside....if you think Sammy's bad for the money, you've really got a swift kick from reality coming straight for your head.

point is, he wants a raise and we cannot give it to him.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

Flash back one year ago....Wings have the Cup -> Hossa signs a one-year deal with the Wings -> LGW applauds his decision to leave money on the table to play for a good team -> Posters herald him as "unselfish" and "a true team player"

Today...Wings fall two posts short of winning the Cup -> Hossa has a subpar postseason despite a great regular season -> In a move most people thought would happen last year, Hossa may not resign due to the cap -> Posters call Hossa "a cancer" and "a prima donna" who will "never win a cup"

Versus was right...The Cup Changes everything!!!

Who has, I read nothing but good tidings...

[gcom007 1,465]

point is, he wants a raise and we cannot give it to him.

Which he deserves when it really comes down to it.

I'm not saying we should give everything away to resign him at all. My point is there are a lot of foolish people who seem so happy about the likelihood of him leaving, while neglecting the fact that anyone who might replace him is most likely going to be a major step down.

Just another example of fans taking things for granted. That's all.

[datterberg1340 626]

I like Downey and all as some face in an interview and when he's in a fight, but come on, on his best days, Downey is not the guy who's going to be the key to this teams success. Sure, he adds grit, but he also hurts us in many other ways. If they want a guy who can stand up for guys, they need a guy who can at least play the game as well too and that costs some money. Maybe they decide to go in that direction and spend it, but again, Downey is not the answer. I wish he was for his sake and because I like the guy, but it is what it is.

You certainly have a point there, and a guy like Chris Neil would be more ideal for that role, but with all things considered Downey might be the best we can get

[RedFX 48]

Who has, I read nothing but good tidings...

Good riddance. I'll remember his playoff failure and anemic Finals more than his 40 goal regular season. Hockeytown isn't about the regular seasons.

f this is true I'm disgusted with Hossa and his Agent. I know an agent is supposed to get the most for his player that he can but if Hossa wants to stay in Detroit as bad as he has said all season long and to let a deal like this fall through just because of $2 Million more than I say shame on you Hossa and good riddons.

There is a reason Hossa doesn't have a ring...... He is NOT a playoff guy who can take a team to a championship..... Regular season means SQUAT in the playoffs. I would rather have a player like Dallas Drake than a prima donna like Hossa in the playoffs ANYDAY!

Hossa will never get a ring

First f*** hossa he cud go somewhere else i was disgusted the way he wanted detroit to carry him to a title

We are better without hossa.

Hossa-'' Winning the stanley cup, not my forte''

There are more scattered throughout the forums

[skyphoenix 153]

Honestly, I know $2mil is a lot of money but why not take that kind of pay cut to know that you will be on a cup contending team for the rest of your career? This team is not going downhill any time soon as far as I can see, so a $2mil discount doesnt really seem like too big of a deal when you have such a sure-thing with this team.

[titanium2 867]

Z's had his off years. They're still superstars. These are the guys with the most potential to do damage and score GOALS. Hossa still scored twice as many GOALS (those things that go on the scoreboard and win games) than Flip in the playoffs. Meanwhile, it was considered Flips best outing and Hossa's worst. Hmmmmm, think about that for a second.

First off, I don't recall Z having "off years" in the playoffs. The only one I can think of that isn't even all that valid is his rookie year.

Fil has been in the league for what, 4 years? And yet, secondary assists or not, he still found a way to rack up more points probably because he was more willing to the dirty work as opposed to Mr. same salary as the Wings' franchise defenseman.

Posters call Hossa "a cancer" and "a prima donna" who will "never win a cup"

He's not any of those things. He's as humble as anybody in that Wings locker room. However, when it comes to results in the playoffs, he's just not all that reliable and definitely not worth a Red Wings cap hit significantly higher than Franzen's imo.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

Which he deserves when it really comes down to it.

I'm not saying we should give everything away to resign him at all. My point is there are a lot of foolish people who seem so happy about the likelihood of him leaving, while neglecting the fact that anyone who might replace him is most likely going to be a major step down.

Just another example of fans taking things for granted. That's all.

I hear ya, and if he would re-sig for the $1M to $1.5 we have to play with, then sigb him up. Most people here are looking for a fresh blood type player. BUT using Sammy as the filler we look like this:

(lines are subjet to change)

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Cleary

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

Leino - Helm - Abdelkader

Maltby - Draper - Holmstrom

Meech (McCarty (yech))

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Stuart - Kronwall

Ericsson - Lilja (assuming he'll play)

Lebda

Osgood

Conklin (if he'll sign for the same, I am not trusting Howard, but it's a wash in salary basically)

I am also assuming Leino re-sigs for a modest raise of arouind $950,000...

[gcom007 1,465]

One thing to keep in mind with all this is that thus far, Holland's dealing with Winter. Besides the fact that it's Winter, he's an agent. All agents are going to push for the most money and play games and dangle things to the media. GM's do the same thing in a different way. Like it's been said numerous times, if Hossa wants to be a Wing, he knows what he has to do. It's certainly asking a lot when you consider a $2 million discount over 10 years is really more like $20 million (in a sense, I know there are other factors, I'm just saying, it's not as cut and dry as $2 million).

But...

Who was the guy who walked away from big-money long-term deals to take less money for 1 year from the Wings?

Marian Hossa.

Who cut his agent off, got on the line and finalized the deal himself in order to cut to the chase and make it happen?

Marian Hossa.

Who wanted to be a Wing before being traded to the Pens and even nogotiated a possible extension with Holland should a deal go through?

Marian Hossa.

And who has said time and time again that they want to sign a long-term deal with the Wings and will take less money to do so?

Marian Hossa.

Now, sure, that doesn't mean it'll happen, but I still think this one's far from finished. Winter's going to push all he can, but at the end of the day, Marian can sign what he wants to sign and will. He proved that last year in stunning fashion.

Is Holland wise to not be optimistic? Absolutely. It's still asking a lot from the guy and it'd be rather arrogant to say the least if he was cocky about getting a deal done worth 2/3 or less what Hossa could get on the open market. Holland is smart enough to know that whether we sign him or not, he owes the situation a certain dose of humility. Hossa already gave up a lot to come and play for us this year and he'd be giving up far more than the vast majority of players at any level would if he signs the deal.

Either way it goes at this point, the only reasonable attitude is one of humility and one of thanks. Either way it goes, Hossa will have sacrificed a lot to be a Wing.

So I'm not reading too far into anything yet. I still think it could easily go either way. We'll know soon enough though...

[Konnan511 1,736]

I feel bad for the LGW members that actually thought he was more than a rental player. Good luck on where ever you go Hoss! Hope to meet you in the finals next year

[Konnan511 1,736]

One thing to ... soon enough though...

Good post, but I like your Sig more, except I'd like to point out that cool points are very underrated as I pointed out in a previous thread the other day.

[gcom007 1,465]

First off, I don't recall Z having "off years" in the playoffs. The only one I can think of that isn't even all that valid is his rookie year.

Fil has been in the league for what, 4 years? And yet, secondary assists or not, he still found a way to rack up more points probably because he was more willing to the dirty work as opposed to Mr. same salary as the Wings' franchise defenseman.

He's not any of those things. He's as humble as anybody in that Wings locker room. However, when it comes to results in the playoffs, he's just not all that reliable and definitely not worth a Red Wings cap hit significantly higher than Franzen's imo.

In terms of Z, actually, you're closer to right. I was thinking '06/'07 as he wasn't exactly dominant compared to other years, but he wasn't exactly bad. 6 G, 8 A in 18 games. Hossa this year again was 6 G, 9 A in 23 games. But do people forget that the guy scored 26 points for the Pens a little over a year ago as their best player? That's 1 less than Z's numbers in a Conn Smythe season.

And please, Flip had 1 more point than Hossa. He also had 3 less goals. Even when Hossa's snakebit he still managed to score twice as many goals as Flip. Again, you know, goals, those things that win games...

And I don't know what games you were watching, maybe you're not sure either.

"probably because he was willing to (do...) the dirty work"

If anything, Hossa was just doing too much work. He was pressing too much and working the plays too hard especially as time went on. Hossa was still very important to our success in our own end and for being snakepit, his numbers aren't as awful as people make them out to be. 15 points isn't exactly disappearing.

And again, if Hossa's unreliable in the playoffs, so is Datsyuk.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

There are more scattered throughout the forums

Ahhhhh, I must of let those go in one eye and out of the other.

These are the same people who boo Fedorov. Also, they believe Hossa should come back for basically free, like he owes the Wings or something...

I'd love to see Hossa here, but if we cannot fit him, we cannot fit him. Similar to when we had to buyout Hatcher and McCarty in 2005, if the cap doesn't fit, then you must.... uh, sorry, different subject...

[Manoir 70]

Remember Datsyuk? He never had the greatest of playoff seasons but the organization stuck with him, and he was pretty darn good in 2007 and 2008.

Big difference. Datsyuk was just starting out and it is common for younger players to struggle in the postseason. Hossa is an established player in the league whose sole motivation was to win the Cup and his performance was shockingly subpar. I may be wrong, but I think Hossa has had one good postseason thus far in his career and that was last year with the Pens.

I had non-hockey fans over for some of the games in the finals and they all were asking why that one guy(Hossa) just goes to the boards whenever he has the puck and keeps turning the puck over. The performance he delivered in the finals is not one that you just forget about the next time he scores 2 goals in a regular season game in November.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

In terms of Z, actually, you're closer to right. I was thinking '06/'07 as he wasn't exactly dominant compared to other years, but he wasn't exactly bad. 6 G, 8 A in 18 games. Hossa this year again was 6 G, 9 A in 23 games. But do people forget that the guy scored 26 points for the Pens a little over a year ago as their best player? That's 1 less than Z's numbers in a Conn Smythe season.

And please, Flip had 1 more point than Hossa. He also had 3 less goals. Even when Hossa's snakebit he still managed to score twice as many goals as Flip. Again, you know, goals, those things that win games...

And I don't know what games you were watching, maybe you're not sure either.

"probably because he was willing to (do...) the dirty work"

If anything, Hossa was just doing too much work. He was pressing too much and working the plays too hard especially as time went on. Hossa was still very important to our success in our own end and for being snakepit, his numbers aren't as awful as people make them out to be. 15 points isn't exactly disappearing.

And again, if Hossa's unreliable in the playoffs, so is Datsyuk.

IT would be different if we had the cap space and DIDN'T WANT TO PAY HIM, or if we offered him $6 million and he said no, we have no cap room, we cannot afford to pay him even the discounted price. He's not turning his back on the Wings, the Wings aren't doublecrossing him. It's black and white, hard numbers. Sure, if he'd take the $3.9 of Franzen that would be awesome, great! I am not even sure we could afford that and continue to fill out the rest of the roster. Sorry we can't afford you Hossa, we aren't mad at you, have a great year! No sarcasm included...

[LeftWinger 4,964]

Big difference. Datsyuk was just starting out and it is common for younger players to struggle in the postseason. Hossa is an established player in the league whose sole motivation was to win the Cup and his performance was shockingly subpar. I may be wrong, but I think Hossa has had one good postseason thus far in his career and that was last year with the Pens.

I had non-hockey fans over for some of the games in the finals and they all were asking why that one guy(Hossa) just goes to the boards whenever he has the puck and keeps turning the puck over. The performance he delivered in the finals is not one that you just forget about the next time he scores 2 goals in a regular season game in November.

Not to make excuses, but remember the TWO devistating head first crashes into the boards near the end of the season? Could it be possible, since we used the injury excuse for Rafi, Lids & Dats, that he had some leftover effects from those? Could it have been a possibility?

[13dangledangle 965]

Sammy must go!!!! He is not worth 1.2 million let alone more, and as for him on our second line...I'd rather cheer for the leafs ( and I ******* hate the leafs) if we resign some one it should be huds, for what Sammy is wanting we could do much better, Lasoe is getting 875000 for god sakes! And we need more speed to fly around with flip and helmmer out there, we looked damn good coming through the neutral zone at 75!!

[rage 24]

I almost feel as if the Detroit and Hossa marriage ended with Franzen's contract extension.