Holland "Not Optimistic" about re-signing Hossa

[RedFX 48]

We're not losing them. Someone would take his place and the circumstances are completely changed.

Easier said than done. It's obvious Hossa was a big part in the huge goal increase this season. So who can take on those extra 40 goals to keep the output on pace?

[chriskzoo 0]

I trust Holland with whatever he does, but they can't be too short sighted. They could buy out Homer for I think $700k and that would free up another $1.5M in space this year. Combine that with Lidstrom's contract running out after this year ($7.5M a year) and hopefully resigning for $6M or so, and that's another $1.5M available next year.

With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, and Franzen on the team, the Wings almost guarantee themselves of having the top 2-line combuination in the league.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I'm not saying the Wings would MISS the playoffs, I'm just saying losing 40+ goals of offense a year... sucks.

The Wings scored the most goals in the league this season. If their defense and goaltending had been just a tad better they would have won the President's Trophy without breaking a sweat.

Some of those 40 goals will be dispersed throughout the lineup. Zetterberg was aiming for 50 goals last year, and I know he'll be going after that with a vengeance next year. Franzen could get 40 goals easily. Leino could be a 20 goal scorer I think. Helm could chip in atleast 5-10.

And with a tighter defense and Ozzie playing better, we won't miss the few additional goals. Instead of winning games 6-5 and 7-4 we'll win 3-2 and 4-1.

[Snazzy 0]

I hope Holland can get a 2nd round draft pick for Hossa's rights. I'd love to have Hossa on this team long term, but it's not worth losing our role players to keep him. I don't want the Wings to be a team like Penguins or Capitals...

And thankfully we have the smartest GM in the world that will do whatever he possibly can to make this team better.

Off topic:

Imagine if we had the picks we are going to get from Hudler leaving (1st and a 3rd?) and a 2nd if Holland can pull it off trading Hossa's rights... for the 2009 draft year, wow!?? That would given us 2 picks in the first and maybe landed Josefson. Then 2 picks in the 2nd and 3 picks in the 3rd, we could have landed Nattinen and Ralaja + in addition to the guys Holland already picked. Not that has any significance, but if the 2010 draft is as deep, Wings will be in very good shape!

[Opie 308]

I realize the prevailing thought on LGW around this time of the year is that every player in the NHL wants to play for the Red Wings, and because the Wings are such a first rate organization, they should take whatever money the members of LGW deem an appropriate price to play for Detroit. And, that if the player doesn't sign immediately for the board-appropriate salary, there must be some kind of sinister, outside influence. Because we all know that person would sign for the league-minimum just to play for the Wings.

I actually think the Hossa signing for one year in Detroit hurts your argument here, I think it proves players will do almost anything to come to Detroit. I think if Detroit could afford something with a ~6 mil he would stay and that is still a tremendous discount for a player of Hossa's skill set.

However I could not agree with you more when it comes to Hossa taking 4 to play in Detroit, I can not see a player taking a 50% discount to go to the Wings, people may say hey what is 4 mil when you have millions, when you are getting paid 50% of your worth that is a steep pay cut.

I wish Hossa nothing but success (unless against the Wings) and have not one bad word to say about him, would I liked to have seen more out of him in the scf, sure but I can say that about 20 some odd players.

But to say he is less of a person because he won't take a 50% pay cut is absurd. I really believe he wants to stay, I am not sure if the Mule signing was a sign of things to come (as others brought up). I think he would love to remain a wing his whole career, but he really does have to think about his kids and family, that is leaving a lot of money on the table for a long term, that is not leaving a lot of money on the table for one year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kenny use this more often, the one year try at a guy in his prime to get that guy a shot at the cup. I mean if the team continues to be this consistently good year after year, then of course a player has a great shot at the cup in Detroit.

s*** they could do it with Sundin (I am just throwing the name out there)!

[chriskzoo 0]

Is there anything preventing the Wings from a Zetterbern type deal - let's say they give Hossa $6M a year for the first 6 years, then $1M a year for the next 6 - so you have a $42M contract over 12 years, but give Hossa the option to opt-out in the first year once the $1M/year kicks in...I'm not sure how the NHL cap works, other than the cap number is the average of the contract (i.e. can you even do opt-outs)?

[Casey 145]

Is there anything preventing the Wings from a Zetterbern type deal - let's say they give Hossa $6M a year for the first 6 years, then $1M a year for the next 6 - so you have a $42M contract over 12 years, but give Hossa the option to opt-out in the first year once the $1M/year kicks in...I'm not sure how the NHL cap works, other than the cap number is the average of the contract (i.e. can you even do opt-outs)?

Since Hossa's under 35, Detroit would be on the hook for his full contract if he retired during it.

[dallas27 7]

Ha! So we're going to miss the playoffs without Hossa?

Where did he say that would be the Wings' case?

I think he was commenting on the caliber of player Hossa is and how much of a difference he can make to a team. The only thing that is laughable is your filled arguments/comments that has anything to do with Hossa.

Everyone can try to front load a contract to try and trick Hossa but there is a difference between 40 million over x years and 80 million over x years. I'm hoping for two things; That Mr. Holland has a back-up plan, which I'm sure he does, in case Hossa takes off and that we know in two days whether Hossa is a Wing or not.

[LeftWinger 5,135]

People probably don't understand that we only have 1.5 million to play with.....because we have 4 million to play with.

WRONG COWBOY!!!!

We have $3.3 million RIGHT NOW and that is with Helm/Howard/Ericsson on the roster. That's 9 forwards, 8 D-men and 2 goalies. re-sign Leino at a MODEST raise of $950,000 drops it down to roughly $2.3 million. If you plan on being able to call up Abby throughout the year, knock another $850,000 off of that, equalling $1,529,347 TO PLAY WITH! If you don't want Abby up you have $2.3 to play with. Get a frickin clue....

So, that gives you 11 forwards, 8 defense, 2 goalies with $1.5m to add ONE player. Do you suck up all your cap space with Hudler or Sammy? Hudler will get offers of at least $2m elsewhere so you'd have to give him the entire amount, and since he already made $1.1 last season, he may be looking for a bit more of a raise than $400,000. Sammy the same way, he made $1.2m last season. You have to choose one of them or none of them and go with new blood to fill out 13 forwards. Now if you leave Abby down in GRR, you could spend the entire $2.3m on both of them, but they'd get no raises.

For my money, Abby should be hear over Sammy, and Sammy would stay before Hudler ONLY because losing Sammy you get nothing, losing Hudler you at least get a draft pik or two as compensation... My prefernce, let them both go and get some New Blood in here for the $1.5m. Then you have 4 solid lines with Meech acting as your 13th F and 8th D. Lebda will be your 7th, unless Lilja is LTIR, in which it gives you another $1.25 added to the original $3.3, but Lilja will probably be back, so you don't want to waste up that space and be hoggtied midway through the season having to dump salary...

So, no cowboy, we don't have $4m, we have $1.5m. Unless you want a roster of only 18 skaters. That is why if Hossa sign's someone in the $3million range is going to have to be traded, along with losing the rest of our UFA's and Hudler, so we can fill out our roster with cheap dollar players.

Nothing personal against Hudler, just business-wise it makes more sense to get compensated than not.

[LeftWinger 5,135]

Where did he say that would be the Wings' case?

I think he was commenting on the caliber of player Hossa is and how much of a difference he can make to a team. The only thing that is laughable is your filled arguments/comments that has anything to do with Hossa.

Everyone can try to front load a contract to try and trick Hossa but there is a difference between 40 million over x years and 80 million over x years. I'm hoping for two things; That Mr. Holland has a back-up plan, which I'm sure he does, in case Hossa takes off and that we know in two days whether Hossa is a Wing or not.

Actually, I believe the latest is if Hossa doesn't agree by tonight, his rghts will be traded somewhere, so Holland gets something out of the deal. I'd take a nice trade like the Bouwmeester (sp) deal. Another UFA looking for a modest raise to about $1.5M and a 2nd round pick! From someone like Minn or LA that could be another high second rounder!

[Nightfall 871]

I actually think the Hossa signing for one year in Detroit hurts your argument here, I think it proves players will do almost anything to come to Detroit. I think if Detroit could afford something with a ~6 mil he would stay and that is still a tremendous discount for a player of Hossa's skill set.

However I could not agree with you more when it comes to Hossa taking 4 to play in Detroit, I can not see a player taking a 50% discount to go to the Wings, people may say hey what is 4 mil when you have millions, when you are getting paid 50% of your worth that is a steep pay cut.

I wish Hossa nothing but success (unless against the Wings) and have not one bad word to say about him, would I liked to have seen more out of him in the scf, sure but I can say that about 20 some odd players.

But to say he is less of a person because he won't take a 50% pay cut is absurd. I really believe he wants to stay, I am not sure if the Mule signing was a sign of things to come (as others brought up). I think he would love to remain a wing his whole career, but he really does have to think about his kids and family, that is leaving a lot of money on the table for a long term, that is not leaving a lot of money on the table for one year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kenny use this more often, the one year try at a guy in his prime to get that guy a shot at the cup. I mean if the team continues to be this consistently good year after year, then of course a player has a great shot at the cup in Detroit.

s*** they could do it with Sundin (I am just throwing the name out there)!

This is an awesome post.

When Hossa spurned more than 8 million a season to sign with Detroit at a discount, everyone cheered. After all, it was only about 5-10% discount of a years salary to sign with Detroit Well worth the chance to win the cup. Now, wings fans are expecting him to take more of a discount to play for the Wings to the tune of about 40-50% discount.

If someone offered me a job where I could make $80,000 a year but the work environment was not that friendly, or I could take a job at $75,000 a year for a much more laid back work environment, which one do you think I would take? Thats right, the 75k a year job. Now, if I took that job and then the company fell on hard times and wanted to keep me around for 40k a year, is it unreasonable for me to look elsewhere? Even though the other employees call me a sell out because I am looking elsewhere?

Lets face facts here, we had our best chance to win the cup this year. We lost only Dallas Drake and Hasek from last season. We got a high impact player, and IMHO, we should have been able to go all the way this year. As it turns out, we came up one game short. I think we came up one game short due to lack of hunger AND the stars aligned for the Pens with late season acquisitions through the trade deadline.

Maybe next season the Wings will regain that hunger that they had in 2008 when they lifted the cup. They won't need Hossa to do it either.

I hope Hossa signs, but if he doesn't, I wish him the best. I really like him as a player.

[gcom007 1,465]

This is an awesome post.

When Hossa spurned more than 8 million a season to sign with Detroit at a discount, everyone cheered. After all, it was only about 5-10% discount of a years salary to sign with Detroit Well worth the chance to win the cup. Now, wings fans are expecting him to take more of a discount to play for the Wings to the tune of about 40-50% discount.

If someone offered me a job where I could make $80,000 a year but the work environment was not that friendly, or I could take a job at $75,000 a year for a much more laid back work environment, which one do you think I would take? Thats right, the 75k a year job. Now, if I took that job and then the company fell on hard times and wanted to keep me around for 40k a year, is it unreasonable for me to look elsewhere? Even though the other employees call me a sell out because I am looking elsewhere?

Lets face facts here, we had our best chance to win the cup this year. We lost only Dallas Drake and Hasek from last season. We got a high impact player, and IMHO, we should have been able to go all the way this year. As it turns out, we came up one game short. I think we came up one game short due to lack of hunger AND the stars aligned for the Pens with late season acquisitions through the trade deadline.

Maybe next season the Wings will regain that hunger that they had in 2008 when they lifted the cup. They won't need Hossa to do it either.

I hope Hossa signs, but if he doesn't, I wish him the best. I really like him as a player.

Not to mention major injuries to many key Wings players...

[BlakChamber 8]

I actually think the Hossa signing for one year in Detroit hurts your argument here, I think it proves players will do almost anything to come to Detroit. I think if Detroit could afford something with a ~6 mil he would stay and that is still a tremendous discount for a player of Hossa's skill set.

I'm not trying to argue that players won't take a paycut to be a Red Wing because that clearly isn't the case. I'm saying I think there's a mentality among a lot of people on the board that if a player wants to be a Red Wing, he should take whatever the offer is and like it, since he's getting the grand and glorious honor of being a Wing.

[Opie 308]

I'm not trying to argue that players won't take a paycut to be a Red Wing because that clearly isn't the case. I'm saying I think there's a mentality among a lot of people on the board that if a player wants to be a Red Wing, he should take whatever the offer is and like it, since he's getting the grand and glorious honor of being a Wing.

And that I agree 100% with you on.

[egroen 384]

Is there anything preventing the Wings from a Zetterbern type deal - let's say they give Hossa $6M a year for the first 6 years, then $1M a year for the next 6 - so you have a $42M contract over 12 years, but give Hossa the option to opt-out in the first year once the $1M/year kicks in...I'm not sure how the NHL cap works, other than the cap number is the average of the contract (i.e. can you even do opt-outs)?

You could get away with a ten year contract, but a 12 year contract is pushing it -- and might get voided by the NHL as an attempt to circumvent the cap (which it clearly is). A contract out to 40 years-old is one thing, but very few players are playing in the NHL at 42. I feel like the Wings are "pushing it" already.

You can not "opt-out" of a contract (unless you retire) or renegotiate.

Edited June 29, 2009 by egroen

[Jedi 1,865]

I'm not trying to argue that players won't take a paycut to be a Red Wing because that clearly isn't the case. I'm saying I think there's a mentality among a lot of people on the board that if a player wants to be a Red Wing, he should take whatever the offer is and like it, since he's getting the grand and glorious honor of being a Wing.

Yeah sure. Next thing you're gonna try telling me that Santa Claus isn't real...

[T.Low 1,011]

Just because he can't disregard Hossa wishes doesn't mean he can't influence Hossa's decision. Trust me, I'm sure rich winters REALLY wanted hossa to sign with edmonton last year, and expressed his opinion accordingly.

Actually, Rich Winters and Ken Holland have had a lot of dialogue over the years in regards to trying to land Marian Hossa on the Red Wings. Its seems to be a case of when the Wings have room, Hossa is not availbale. Then when Hossa is available, the Wings do not have room.

The deal last year was done with eyes wide open, both parties knowing the limiting realities of the following year. Now, Hossa has a window of whats fair for him (understandly so) and Holland has a window of what he can afford. Its as simple as that. Hossa's sqaure peg of a salary demand (his value) needs to be able to somehow fit into Hollands round hole of a budget.

They knew it would be unlikely, but wanted to get Hossa's foot in the door and give it a go for one year and then see what happens. Stranger things have worked out. You can't blame either side.

[#18 the _Hoss_ 2]

Actually.....You can't blame either side.

This might be the best description of the whole situation there ever will be.

I hope it makes sense.

[T.OWingsFan 7]

Bye bye Marian.

I'm not dissapointed myself. Can't pay a guy who didn't show up when we needed him that kind of money. Better to spend it on our own players from our own system who've bleed and won here (Huds for one).

[chrisdetroit 189]

This is kind of ridiculous. Does anybody truly expect him to sign a contract for a 4 million dollar cap hit. He is the best free agent available this season, and he turned down big money once, he won't do it again. Not because he is a bad person, because he isn't stupid. Hossa asking the team for a 6 million cap hit is already a pay cut to what he can get on the open market, 4 million is not a number i would expect him to settle with. Does he want to be a Red Wing, I still think so. Do we want to keep him, I still think so. Does it work for either party financially, hell no.

Hossa was great here, and he wasn't the only no-show in the finals, anybody not named Zetterberg or Ozzie was really a no show in the finals.

I loved the year Hossa spent here, and I wish him luck and will cheer him anywhere he goes, maybe not the team he is on, but him I will cheer for.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Other guys that IMO did well in the finals

Dan Cleary

Justin Abdelkader (yes it was a surprise)

Valtteri Filpulla

Darren Helm

Johan Franzen

Nicklas Lidstrom

Jonathan Ericsson

[chrisdetroit 189]

Actually, Rich Winters and Ken Holland have had a lot of dialogue over the years in regards to trying to land Marian Hossa on the Red Wings. Its seems to be a case of when the Wings have room, Hossa is not availbale. Then when Hossa is available, the Wings do not have room.

The deal last year was done with eyes wide open, both parties knowing the limiting realities of the following year. Now, Hossa has a window of whats fair for him (understandly so) and Holland has a window of what he can afford. Its as simple as that. Hossa's sqaure peg of a salary demand (his value) needs to be able to somehow fit into Hollands round hole of a budget.

They knew it would be unlikely, but wanted to get Hossa's foot in the door and give it a go for one year and then see what happens. Stranger things have worked out. You can't blame either side.

Well put but I still can't see Hossa going to Minny or LA. I wish him luck but it means that he all but gives up on the possibility of winning a cup.

It would not shock me if he took Kenny's offer. Or how bout this? 1 year for 4 mil. After 2009-2010 Lids retires and Kenny has more money to spend. He could sign for the 1 year and have an unwritten agreement that he gets $7mil next year. Of course Lids would have to be in on the agreement to either retire or take less...

It could happen. Kenny is a magician and if somebody like me could think of it, Kenny has already considered it.

[Opie 308]

Well put but I still can't see Hossa going to Minny or LA. I wish him luck but it means that he all but gives up on the possibility of winning a cup.

It would not shock me if he took Kenny's offer. Or how bout this? 1 year for 4 mil. After 2009-2010 Lids retires and Kenny has more money to spend. He could sign for the 1 year and have an unwritten agreement that he gets $7mil next year. Of course Lids would have to be in on the agreement to either retire or take less...

It could happen. Kenny is a magician and if somebody like me could think of it, Kenny has already considered it.

Hey that would work for both player and team, at the end of the year re-evaluate, same rules as this season.

However, if Hossa does that he deserves even more credit than he should have gotten for the contract last off season. This guy would be leaving a total of 6+ on the table in 2 seasons!

[titanium2 867]

Hmm. I thought the trade was supposed to happen by now. At least according to Matheson.

This could be a sign.

Heh, now watch, seconds or minutes after I post this the trade officially happens.

[zenway9 1]

You think he re-signed and they are prepping for a conference?

[Glubki 17]

You think he re-signed and they are prepping for a conference?

It's almost getting to the point where any team that is trying to get his rights won't have enough time to negotiate before Wednesday at noon.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Glubki