Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hossa nearly carried this team on his back during the regular season. He was good, but Datsyuk was the one doing all the carrying. How many timely goals did Franzen score in the Finals? Franzen was just as invisible as Hossa was in the last games of the season. He scored a game-winner in Game 1, you might recall, and another later in the Game 3 loss, but he wasn't spectacular. Hossa is a better skater and defensive forward than Franzen for sure (although Franzen isn't bad by any means, and started his career as a checking forward), but when you get down to the brass tacks you've got to score. Franzen has made a name for himself by scoring tons of goals in the playoffs at huge times. Even if Hossa were to come up huge and score like he did with the Pens, that would only put him equal to where Franzen is already. I don't think Hossa is or was as bad as a lot of people say, but he wasn't as good as Franzen this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 If we lose next year in the playoffs, I hope it's against chicago at the hands of Hossa, who scores 3 goals a game. Hossa > Franzen. In every department. It's not debatable. Hossa had a bad playoffs year, so did Datsyuk. But who would you rather have, Datsyuk or Franzen? People here are so fickle. First of all, it hasn't just been one bad year. He's had many and only 2 maybe 3 good years in the playoffs out of like what? 10? You hope the Wings lose to the Blackhaws, if they lose? What kind of Wings fan are you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RockyMountainWingGal 108 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 What areas? Goal scoring - Hossa Playmaking - Hossa Backchecking - Hossa Defense - Hossa (I concede it's a slight advantage if anything, he's definitely not worse) Speed - Hossa Hitting - Even (Hossa had more hits than Franzen in the playoffs, Franzen had more in the reg. season) Intensity/Effort - Hossa Clutch Goals - Franzen, but a very slight advantage Takeaways - Hossa What else is there? Disappearing act in the SCF/biggest series of your life - Hossa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Disappearing act in the SCF/biggest series of your life - Hossa Inability to mesh with Pav or Z, the cornerstones of the Wings' franchise - Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) ^ So scoring 32 goals while meshing with the cornerstones of the red wings franchise is better than 40 goals while "not"? Did you actually think that through or did you just get excited when you thought you had a zinger? Hossa is a better skater and defensive forward than Franzen for sure (although Franzen isn't bad by any means, and started his career as a checking forward), but when you get down to the brass tacks you've got to score. Franzen has made a name for himself by scoring tons of goals in the playoffs at huge times. Even if Hossa were to come up huge and score like he did with the Pens, that would only put him equal to where Franzen is already. I don't think Hossa is or was as bad as a lot of people say, but he wasn't as good as Franzen this season. Hossa wasn't as good as franzen during the playoffs, but he was better in the regular season. And seeing how his bad playoffs (for his standards, it's not like he was the worst player on the team) is the outlier (most people who have posted probably won't know what that means) as opposed to all the good playoffs he's had, Hossa is the better player. And I really don't remember Franzen putting on a con smythe performance in the finals either. Hossa had one less point than franzen in the finals. Edited July 2, 2009 by Z and D for the C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyphoenix 153 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I would take Hossa over Franzen because he a proven 70-90 point player but thats not to say that Franzen cant be. He upped is numbers from last year which is great and I would say that Franzen has more long term upside if that trend continues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lovin Jiri Fischer 147 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hossa wasn't as good as franzen during the playoffs, but he was better in the regular season. Because the regular season matters so much, right? I'm sure any Sharks fan or Pens fan this year would have to tell you otherwise. Or Wings fans from 03-06... And I really don't remember Franzen putting on a con smythe performance in the finals either. Hossa had one less point than franzen in the finals. He wasn't Conn Smythe worthy this year, but he definately should have won it last year if he didn't get injured. And then he showed up this year and had another great playoffs. This makes it twice in a row that he came to play IN THE PLAYOFFS. More than I can say for Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 One brings it in the playoffs, one doesnt. We picked the right players, but by no means am I content with the Wings not making any moves today. This current roster needs tweaks if it wants a chance to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 ^ So scoring 32 goals while meshing with the cornerstones of the red wings franchise is better than 40 goals while "not"? Did you actually think that through or did you just get excited when you thought you had a zinger? On the Wings? A team that values chemistry above all? Yeah. Did you think that question through or did you just feel like spitting out the number 40? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 He wasn't Conn Smythe worthy this year, but he definately should have won it last year if he didn't get injured. And then he showed up this year and had another great playoffs. This makes it twice in a row that he came to play IN THE PLAYOFFS. More than I can say for Hossa. Well hey, scoring 40 goals during the regular season makes up for it. Oh wait, you mentioned the playoffs. Oh well, I guess my hands are tied. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hossa wasn't as good as franzen during the playoffs, but he was better in the regular season. And seeing how his bad playoffs (for his standards, it's not like he was the worst player on the team) is the outlier (most people who have posted probably won't know what that means) as opposed to all the good playoffs he's had, Hossa is the better player. I'm not really too crazy about the regular season. Hank had a so-so season but was the Wings best skater in the playoffs; I'll take his 73 points and Conn Smythe worthy performance over, say, Joe Thornton's 86 points but playoff disappearing act. After his first three playoff runs where he wasn't very good (understandable and most young players go through it), Hossa has been a good player in the playoffs and wasn't nearly as bad as he's made out to be this season, but Kenny had to pick one, and judging by the only straight up comparison we'll ever get Franzen was the right choice from where I'm sitting. And I really don't remember Franzen putting on a con smythe performance in the finals either. Hossa had one less point than franzen in the finals. I agree, the Finals were, unfortunately, his weakest round. He was incredible against the Ducks and also very good against the BJs and Hawks, and through three rounds he performed better in than Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Hossa > Franzen. In every department. It's not debatable. Thanks, master. I appreciate your clarification that this is, not, in fact, a discussion board, but rather an avenue by which you may post your absolute and absolutely correct statements on affairs. In other words, piss off. That was a really talented response. You must be smarter than the rest of us. Endulge us with more posts like this. I just find myself not able to get enough! Irony x 10. Check the mirror. Disappearing act in the SCF/biggest series of your life - Hossa Make that the entire playoffs. Six goals in 23 games---and all of them in the space of three games, total---ain't OK. He didn't just disappear in the finals---he wasn't very present throughout the rest of the playoffs either. And I don't feel like he was ever a very good team player. He'd make individual efforts that produced results sometimes, but not often. Edited July 2, 2009 by Crymson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I have a feeling that Hossa will win more Stanley Cups throughout his contract than Franzen will. That was very painful to type. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I have a feeling that Hossa will win more Stanley Cups throughout his contract than Franzen will. That was very painful to type. Well he better get busy then, because his window of opportunity is about to close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylee 727 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) i would like to see the Wings sign a forward to basically replace sammy: 2nd line scorer, but with fewer mind numbing plays : D Edited July 2, 2009 by kylee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hossa is a very very talented man who refuses to engage physically.. 'nuff said when it comes to playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teebo 22 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 hossa > franzen. that other guy explained why, too many homers to even comprehend it though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 All you guys whining about the regular season not meaning anything are the same guys that s*** the bed every time the Wings lose a game during the season or only get a 1 goal win. Don't bother responding to this because you got nothing. Nuh-thing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Could someone kindly tabulate the top playoff goal scorers since the lockout and figure out who sits at say... the top 2 spots? Thx! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lovin Jiri Fischer 147 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Quick question: If Hossa is in fact the all-powerful answer to our prayers as some of you think he is, then why didn't we win with him, and why did we win without him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigWinston 15 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Franzen easily. Now he can throw Hossa's mouthpiece on the floor next playoffs!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Quick question: If Hossa is in fact the all-powerful answer to our prayers as some of you think he is, then why didn't we win with him, and why did we win without him? Awesome, awesome strawman! Crows are gonna be scared s***less. Wait, which specific posters said that "Hossa is in fact the all-powerful answer to our prayers"? I saw a few people claim that he's a better hockey player than Johan Franzen. They're right, he is. He didn't seem to mesh well here though, and I would have been equally okay with seeing Franzen on a train out of town as Hossa, but I wouldn't cry about losing either. Certainly, Franzen looked better in this most recent playoff series. I think that simply looking at Hossa's recent playoff choke and deciding that he's not as good in the postseason as Franzen is is short-sighted. Hossa played better in last year's playoffs than Franzen has played anywhere, ever. He has it in him. Why he picked this years playoffs to flop I can't say. Maybe he was hurt, maybe it was family problems, maybe Bettman paid him off as part of his super-secret pro-Crosby conspiracy. My guess? A guy like Hossa needs leadership. Put him under a tenacious, enthusiastic, hungry Captain who's skills are growing every day like Crosby and he'll perform when it counts. Put him under a ho-hum, quiet Captain who's skills are deteriorating like Lidstrom, maybe he won't. Hehe. It's as valid a theory as any others that have been presented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Franzen easily. Now he can throw Hossa's mouthpiece on the floor next playoffs!!! Doubtful. Hossa is pretty close to Franzen's size. Hoss would prolly cock his arm back to throw a punch, Franzen would dive to the ice, covering his head, and we'd all get to hear another player call out Franzen for diving as the linesman chuckles at the pathetic figure on the ground.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 On the Wings? A team that values chemistry above all? Yeah. Did you think that question through or did you just feel like spitting out the number 40? How many times did red wings palyers say that Hossa was a perfect fit in the locker room? He scored 40 goals this season, I keep repeating it because it's extremely relevant. He was #7 in goals scored this season. THAT MEANS SOMETHING. If you say someone who has scored 40 goals elsewhere and then scores 20 with the wings, you can cry chemistry. But Hossa nearly had a career year in goals, and likely would have if he didn't miss some time, so this renders your chemistry argument void. Well hey, scoring 40 goals during the regular season makes up for it. Oh wait, you mentioned the playoffs. Oh well, I guess my hands are tied. It doesn't "make up" for it. This might be over your head, but it's an indicator over his very high skill level, and that he just had a bad playoffs last season. Hossa isn't a playoff choker like Joe Thornton, as some people would have everyone here believe. Thornton has a history of playoff disappearances, Hossa doesn't. People who are smarter than you realize that he is worth having for the playoffs. Thanks, master. I appreciate your clarification that this is, not, in fact, a discussion board, but rather an avenue by which you may post your absolute and absolutely correct statements on affairs. In other words, piss off. Could other words also be..."I'm retarded"?.... What areas? Goal scoring - Hossa Playmaking - Hossa Backchecking - Hossa Defense - Hossa (I concede it's a slight advantage if anything, he's definitely not worse) Speed - Hossa Hitting - Even (Hossa had more hits than Franzen in the playoffs, Franzen had more in the reg. season) Intensity/Effort - Hossa Clutch Goals - Franzen, but a very slight advantage Takeaways - Hossa What else is there? Make that the entire playoffs. Six goals in 23 games---and all of them in the space of three games, total---ain't OK. He didn't just disappear in the finals---he wasn't very present throughout the rest of the playoffs either. And I don't feel like he was ever a very good team player. He'd make individual efforts that produced results sometimes, but not often. I agree about his bad playoffs for his standards. But Datsyuk had a bad playoffs too, should we all hate him too or is there a double standard on this board (that's a silly question, of course there is). And the team player thing is ridiculous. How many ******* times has Hossa let a pass go between his legs to some other red wings player, and some times scored a goal. You're even dumber than I thought if you actually believe the things you type. Hossa is the epitome of team player. Well he better get busy then, because his window of opportunity is about to close. LOL, yeah. 12 years sure doesn't give him much chance! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 It sounds like Hossa was offered similar money from Detroit that he received from Chicago (a little over $5m per year) during the season -- he passed it up, and so Holland signed Franzen. In other words, we are not talking about Hossa at $5.2m vs. Franzen at $3.9m but closer to Hossa at $6m. In that case, Franzen is a much better deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
