RedFX 48 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 There's a reason everyone talks about the Red Wings depth. It seems like we've been in this situation multiple times before. We lose a substantial part of our offensive production. Yet it seems every time this happens, there is always someone who steps up and fills their shoes. When Fedorov left, Datysuk and Zetterberg played a bigger role. Stevie and Shanny leave; Cleary, Filpulla and Franzen raise their play. Who's to say Leino can't eventually start putting up 20-30 a year? Or maybe Helm and Abdelkader get a scoring touch? Maybe Datsyuk breaks the 100 pt barrier or Zetterberg stays healthy and puts up 50 goals. Maybe Cleary and Franzen each put up career numbers. Maybe Ozzie continues his level of play and Howard maybe isn't the worst goalie ever *gasp*. If it's January and we're stuck in 5th place, then I'll be concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 I just want to say this right now. Do not be stunned if Filppula's numbers do not increase considerably next season. Samuelsson's power play spot will go to Ericsson and/or Stuart. Hossa and Hudler are gone from the power play also, which leaves two forward spots to be meshed in with Z, Dats, Homer, and Franzen. You can count on Cleary getting one of them. Depending on whether Hudler ends up taking his arbitration award or agreeing to a contract, which is not considered likely but still certainly possible, he would be on the PP ahead of Flip. Leino also may be on the PP ahead of Filppula depending on the units Babcock is putting together. So it's possible Filppula doesn't see a significant increase in PP time. He will likely see very little increase in ES time if any. The only difference last season between his time and Z or Dats was that he played slightly less at ES, and the PP time. So Flip will not see much increase unless Z and Dats also see it, meaning the Wings are moving away from rolling four lines. That said, Zetterberg should be back somewhere between 85-95 points next season with about 45 goals, regardless of whether he is playing with Datsyuk at even strength. This will largely be because his line won't be the only option to play against the opposing team's top line, which will be a major factor in why the Wings will be able to increase offensive output from players who were expected to produce more last year. Assuming Dats and Z are split, and Flip centers the third line, Flip will be used primarily as a shutdown center and that role will allow the Wings to run lines one and two as offense-first lines rather than running line two as the shutdown line as they did last year. This is another reason Filppula's offensive numbers will likely not increase and may even regress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted July 9, 2009 I think we're screwed if the goal is to win the Presidents trophy. As I've said numerous times, I don't think we're going to be as forceful of a powerhouse as we've been the last few years. Does that mean we're screwed? Only time will tell but I doubt it. I don't see the world in black and white like many here seem to. I think the Wings are going to have to battle it out in a more competitive conference and division with a weaker team. That's a scenario we haven't seen in awhile. This notion that we're better off having lost Hossa and Sammy is hogwash and the sentiment is heightened considering the loss of Hudler. It's not likely that this season is going to be a runaway. So you made a thread exclusively to say that this would be a tough season, and, rather than just keeping a positive outlook and hoping that the team will indeed repeat the regular season success to which it is accustomed, you are expending effort in arguing that this success will not extend to the coming season. You'll forgive me if I just don't get the use of it. It seems counterproductive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) IMO, Filppula and Cleary had there best seasons when we won the Cup. It was unfortunate that Samuelsson decided to ruin the playoffs for Dano and rip a slapper at his jaw, but what are you going to do (Just playing about the Sammy thing ). If Zetterberg and Datsyuk are together, I'll say Z gets 40 goals, and Datsyuk will get at least 30. Franzen should be getting 30+ with the icetime he'll see, and Leino's ability to control the puck down low will get him some goals. We'll be fine, No dummies (Kopecky, Samuelsson), No midgets (Hudler) and No choke artists (Hossa). This is just a good ole Red Wings team, hopefully it adds some more character and Babcock and the boys can get the strong defensive presence back, and we'll be one of the hardest teams to play against. I'm of the Brian Burke mindset, if your hard to play against, no one wants to play you, and your tougher to beat, even better is we have an incredible amount of skill compared to Burkies team. Nothings a sure bet, not Z, Franzen, Leino or Cleary. But people are saying "Oh Noezzzz, we needa topppp 6ixxx forwardd!!!" We'll, no sure bets are out there. Bertuzzi? I'd take him for cheap, but who knows what he'll be capable of. Comrie? Sure, but I imagine he'll be pricey, Kotalik, Afinganov? I mean none of the guys I mentioned are sure bets for anything. I'll let Kenny do the spending, and just be supportive. I've been one of the negative guys in the past, but I've gotten over that, this Wings team has been there and done that, and all they gotta do is be harder to play against. Numbers are for calculators, The game is played on ice. Edited July 9, 2009 by Detroit # 1 Fan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Stopped reading when you lost all credibility by saying : It was unfortunate that Samuelsson decided to ruin the playoffs for Dano and rip a slapper at his jaw, but what are you going to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted July 9, 2009 I think we're screwed if the goal is to win the Presidents trophy. As I've said numerous times, I don't think we're going to be as forceful of a powerhouse as we've been the last few years. Does that mean we're screwed? Only time will tell but I doubt it. I don't see the world in black and white like many here seem to. I think the Wings are going to have to battle it out in a more competitive conference and division with a weaker team. That's a scenario we haven't seen in awhile. This notion that we're better off having lost Hossa and Sammy is hogwash and the sentiment is heightened considering the loss of Hudler. It's not likely that this season is going to be a runaway. So you made a thread exclusively to say that this would be a tough season, and, rather than just keeping a positive outlook and hoping that the team will indeed repeat the regular season success to which it is accustomed, you are expending effort in arguing that this success will not extend to the coming season. You'll forgive me if I just don't get the use of it. It seems counterproductive, given that you're a fan of the team. Given that you are not playing on it, being 'realistic' does not really accomplish you anything substantial. Indeed, you seem to be attempting to convince yourself and others that the coming year will not go well. I don't understand why you're doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Stopped reading when you lost all credibility by saying : I should've thrown the sarcasm tags on there Opie, I think I've joked about that too much Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 I apologize then, my bad! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) The thing I notice is that a lot of us were counting on Hudler getting resigned and thenhaving a 30g-45a type season... And this was more then a reasonable assumption looking at numbers, progress, and expanded playing time... I Also have noticed that many of the same people that have wanted Hudler out the door from the start are the same people that expect Leino to provide these kind of numbers... I hope Leino does, but in no way am I counting on that at this stage of his career... Someone else mentioned that the Wings develop talent and plug the piece in when needed, well that developed piece to plug in for the top 2 lines was Hudler, he is the guy that was at that point. I hope Leino has a rookie of the year season, but I am not going to bet money on it... I mean look at free agency... How many young 70+ point potential players under 34 are there out there? I could find you 3 or 4 good 2 way centers under 30... Scoring touch is at a premium and always will be... Edited July 9, 2009 by Wingseroo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellarina 1 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 The Ice time left over from the exodus will be filled and so will the points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 So you made a thread exclusively to say that this would be a tough season, and, rather than just keeping a positive outlook and hoping that the team will indeed repeat the regular season success to which it is accustomed, you are expending effort in arguing that this success will not extend to the coming season. You'll forgive me if I just don't get the use of it. It seems counterproductive, given that you're a fan of the team. Given that you are not playing on it, being 'realistic' does not really accomplish you anything substantial. Indeed, you seem to be attempting to convince yourself and others that the coming year will not go well. I don't understand why you're doing it. Well, it would get boring during the off-season if we didn't point out how great of GMs we would all be Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 The thing I notice is that a lot of us were counting on Hudler getting resigned and thenhaving a 30g-45a type season... And this was more then a reasonable assumption looking at numbers, progress, and expanded playing time... I Also have noticed that many of the same people that have wanted Hudler out the door from the start are the same people that expect Leino to provide these kind of numbers... I hope Leino does, but in no way am I counting on that at this stage of his career... Someone else mentioned that the Wings develop talent and plug the piece in when needed, well that developed piece to plug in for the top 2 lines was Hudler, he is the guy that was at that point. I hope Leino has a rookie of the year season, but I am not going to bet money on it... I mean look at free agency... How many young 70+ point potential players under 34 are there out there? I could find you 3 or 4 good 2 way centers under 30... Scoring touch is at a premium and always will be... And these same people that hated Hudler are going to be turning the hate on Leino very shortly.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Guys, there is no way to replace those 88 goals. We are doomed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieY9802 6 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Everyone keeps saying 88 goals but if the Wings can get the GA down to around 200, which is still more than 07 or 08 they don't have to replace as many goals. Hank had a down year and I think will be between 40-45 again, Helm and Leino is out of the question to think 10 each? I think that's underestimating but ya never know. So Z gets 42 so that's plus 11, those 2 at +20 combined is 31. Homer missed 30 games so if he stays healthy I think his numbers will improve a little so we're pushing 40 goals with 2 roster spots to fill. This team will be just fine. Presidents Trophy? maybe not, probably not actually. But where did the Pens finish last year? Oh wait I am using common sense, I'll stop now. Edited July 9, 2009 by StevieY9802 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzie30 170 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) 88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points....... and still claiming Lord Stanley's Cup filled with Lady Cindy's tears, PRICELESS. Fixed. Edited July 9, 2009 by Ozzie30 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DEVILSWATERBOY 10 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Guys, there is no way to replace those 88 goals. We are doomed. Why does everyone think the Wings are doomed without HOSSA , lets give it a rest and move on we won the cup without ASSOH. This team still has alot of fire power from the blue line in. I am more concerned on the horrible PK LAST SEASON than missing a few goals fix the PK and problem solved Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Guys, there is no way to replace those 88 goals. We are doomed. I agree, we should fire everyone and sell off all our current contracts and move the Red Wings to China. You are 100% correct, we are doomed. Save the embarrassment and sell the organization to China! Get it done, Kenny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 And these same people that hated Hudler are going to be turning the hate on Leino very shortly.... I just hope people are not expecting too much from the young guys like Leino... 18G and 30a will put him in ROY consideration (I am not expecting any Ovie or Crosby type rookies this year)... I mean 18-30 would be great, and honestly to get the 30a part he would need some 2nd line PP time... The Wings need a sniper in a bad way, they are short on pure scorers at the moment... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Everyone keeps saying 88 goals but if the Wings can get the GA down to around 200, which is still more than 07 or 08 they don't have to replace as many goals. Hank had a down year and I think will be between 40-45 again, Helm and Leino is out of the question to think 10 each? I think that's underestimating but ya never know. So Z gets 42 so that's plus 11, those 2 at +20 combined is 31. Homer missed 30 games so if he stays healthy I think his numbers will improve a little so we're pushing 40 goals with 2 roster spots to fill. This team will be just fine. Presidents Trophy? maybe not, probably not actually. But where did the Pens finish last year? Oh wait I am using common sense, I'll stop now. I honestly will be shoked if Homer even comes close to his numbers from 2 or 3 seasons ago again... I doubt Draper will ever have a 24g season again... Father time has caught up to some of these guys, expecting more out of them is not very realistic... Also Homer needs a shooter on his line who's garbage he can clean up... Zetts could get 40 but he is not a pure shooter, and if he plays with Datsyuk to get his 40+ will that weaken the 2nd scoring line? It all works together... Just like you can say some players can improve, they might reduce other players numbers (Franzen) by moving off of lines with them... I mean the Wings might really have to overwork and pinch to provide offense since most of their best mid to long range shooters are all on the blue line now... Who is going to take those 1 timers that create goals, who is shooting from the faceoff circles? Datsyuk, Zetts, Franzen, Homer, Leino (from what I have seen), Flip , and all are all at the net scorers... Sammy's time was done but he was a shooter... Hossa could shoot... Hudler could shoot... Maybe I just miss having guys like Yzerman, Shanny, and Hull that could be lethal 15 feet out from the net... Do not kid yourselves this very thought is weighing on Hollands mind, and I hinestly believe he will bring someone in with some kind of shooting ability... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 I agree, we should fire everyone and sell off all our current contracts and move the Red Wings to China. You are 100% correct, we are doomed. Save the embarrassment and sell the organization to China! Get it done, Kenny. This. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeWingsfan80 209 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points That's the production we've lost in Hossa, Hudler, Sammy and Kopecky. 88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points Like I and others said for the last couple weeks, there's a strong chance we're going to lose all our FA's, not just Hossa. Many scoffed at the notion. But look at us now. 88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points Now, if you really want to see how ugly that is, check this out.... http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetch...ewName=goalsFor Subtract 88 goals and we edge out the Rangers by a goal for 28th place in goals scored. Obviously, it's not that cut and dry, but our kids are not likely to put up that much. Leino's had success at times but he wasn't a big scorer in the AHL even. It's unlikely we'll be able to bring anyone in with our cap space to help that much. I'm not saying we're out at all as a lot of elite teams are taking a hit this go around as well, but this sure isn't going to be like the last few seasons. This team is going to have to work harder than ever for every point. 88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points - 4 (really 3...) players That is not something to minimize. Just go jump off the Windsor bridge and end it now and be done with it. Good God this thread sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeWingsfan80 209 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 Just go jump off the Windsor bridge and end it now and be done with it. Good God this thread sucks. Seriously! It's no big deal, we'll just bring up some AHLers and sign Travis Moen! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hack & Whack Rule! 160 Report post Posted July 9, 2009 So, are we in panic mode, now? Are we praising the veterans that will fill the gap? Are we counting on new blood to bring some energy and stir things up? I don't understand! Somebody, please, STOP THE MADNESS!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 This team made the playoffs without any problems despite subpar defense and goaltending before the regular season ended... This team has made the playoffs 15+ straight years... I don't see this team just completely nosediving because of losing some goal production. They will be fine in all likelihood and make the playoffs, again, without much difficulty... Worry about this then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
