gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) It's cool that so many of you guys can't read. Keep it up. Panic? No. Not me. Realistic? Yeah. You say I'm jumping off the deepend? I said "don't minimize it" like so many are doing. I didn't say "we're f***ed." And meanwhile, while you don't even bother to read what I'm saying, you assume the worst about what I'm saying and suggest that I'm panicking. Who's really being pessimistic at that point? Goodness gracious, it's amazing how lacking so many people seem to be in reading comprehension skills around here. Not to mention how ludicrously "black and white" many of you are. Did any of you stop to think that maybe their is a middle ground in it all? Are you really that lazy of thinkers? Ridiculous. Have fun next year when we don't tear through the regular season. I'll be the one saying, "don't worry...what did you expect?" as I always am while 95% of you are truly panicking. Same old same old. Edited July 10, 2009 by gcom007 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted July 10, 2009 It's cool that so many of you guys can't read. Keep it up. Panic? No. Not me. Realistic? Yeah. You say I'm jumping off the deepend? I said "don't minimize it" like so many are doing. I didn't say "we're f***ed." And meanwhile, while you don't even bother to read what I'm saying, you assume the worst about what I'm saying and suggest that I'm panicking. Who's really being pessimistic at that point? Goodness gracious, it's amazing how lacking so many people seem to be in reading comprehension skills around here. Not to mention how ludicrously "black and white" many of you are. Did any of you stop to think that maybe their is a middle ground in it all? Are you really that lazy of thinkers? Ridiculous. Have fun next year when we don't tear through the regular season. I'll be the one saying, "don't worry...what did you expect?" as I always am while 95% of you are truly panicking. Same old same old. Tell me: what does your preemptive 'realism' accomplish? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedFX 48 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 It's cool that so many of you guys can't read. Keep it up. Panic? No. Not me. Realistic? Yeah. You say I'm jumping off the deepend? I said "don't minimize it" like so many are doing. I didn't say "we're f***ed." And meanwhile, while you don't even bother to read what I'm saying, you assume the worst about what I'm saying and suggest that I'm panicking. Who's really being pessimistic at that point? Goodness gracious, it's amazing how lacking so many people seem to be in reading comprehension skills around here. Not to mention how ludicrously "black and white" many of you are. Did any of you stop to think that maybe their is a middle ground in it all? Are you really that lazy of thinkers? Ridiculous. Have fun next year when we don't tear through the regular season. I'll be the one saying, "don't worry...what did you expect?" as I always am while 95% of you are truly panicking. Same old same old. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 He doesn't need a hug he needs someone to have a bitching contest with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheCaptain19 49 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 i didn't know mitch albom was among us.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deetroit dario 27 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) My gut tells me we're not going to go far this year, but I think it'll be a successful year all things considered and I think we'll be right back in the hunt the next year. I absolutely agree with you. It's not panic, it just is what it is. We've had 3 deep runs and just took a pretty big hit and have a lot of kids coming up and guys winding down. This will likely be a bit of a transition year and I'm cool with that. Not to say I won't be pissed and hurting if we do get knocked out early, but I'm with you. My expectations aren't sky high heading into this year. I try to see the positive in everything though and I think the Wings will grow a lot to prepare for another era this season and we'll look back on it as important no matter what. These 4 kids coming up are real solid kids that I think have potential to be flesh and blood Wings for a long time. That's going to be exciting to watch. And hell, I love hockey. I just can't wait to watch hockey again. I sure as hell want to win, but I can't wait for the competition again and the excitement. I was joking with some people a day before game 7 about this summer and said, "I don't know what I'm going to do without this anxiety in my life for 3 months!" I thrive on it because I love this game. It'll be great to see how it all plays out. thread-winning goal! not sure if i agree with everything that you've said (of course, not sure if i agree with many others as well, which is why i usually just pop in for a quick joke), but the bolded just says it all. either our team wins, or it doesn't. the only thing i can allow myself to worry about at this point is how very far away the next game seems, no matter win or lose. if hockeys on, I win! and so say we all? Edited July 10, 2009 by deetroit dario Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 The OP is implying that Abdelkader, Leino and Helm will contribute nothing. I'll bet we see at minimum half of that total, and bring down the goals against a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 The OP is implying that Abdelkader, Leino and Helm will contribute nothing. I'll bet we see at minimum half of that total, and bring down the goals against a bit. Read the OP again please! Obviously, it's not that cut and dry, but our kids are not likely to put up that much. Leino's had success at times but he wasn't a big scorer in the AHL even. It's unlikely we'll be able to bring anyone in with our cap space to help that much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsCaptain 0 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 Read the OP again please! I have, so I'll summarize this dead horse beating (and backtracking) I'm witnessing. I think his message was taken wrong because he wrote "88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points" like 4 times as if it is some sort of impending doom. Then he wrote: Subtract 88 goals and we edge out the Rangers by a goal for 28th place in goals scored. This implies that we're definitely going to be down 88 goals next season. To which many have replied that they believe Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader will step it up. His response to that: Obviously, it's not that cut and dry, but our kids are not likely to put up that much. Leino's had success at times but he wasn't a big scorer in the AHL even. It's unlikely we'll be able to bring anyone in with our cap space to help that much. Most think the OP is off in his assessment of Leino, Abby, and Helmer. After all, Leino scored 5 goals & 4 assists in 13 games in the regular season, including a goal in his first NHL game ever. What he did in one AHL season while waiting to play in the NHL is really not worth measuring. Then there's Abby who scored two goals in the Finals, and Helmer who was very impressive, at least to me, in the playoffs. The OP finished up with: I'm not saying we're out at all as a lot of elite teams are taking a hit this go around as well, but this sure isn't going to be like the last few seasons. This team is going to have to work harder than ever for every point. and That is not something to minimize. Oh, then what is the OP saying? He certainley seems to be expecting the worst. I wouldn't call it "panicking," tho. And don't the Wings have to work hard every year? It's not like we've coasted every year into the playoffs. I don't expect us to blow up the league, but I also don't expect us to fall to the 8 seed. The usual rebuttal, mine included, is to be optimistic instead of doom & gloom, and to realize that we scored fewer goals without Hossa and won the Cup in '08. The difference between '08 and '09 season is defense. This past season we didn't have it together. We lost. As for losing Samuelsson and Hudler, we just move on. We have good young talent and despite the goals scored by either Sammy or Huds, they were at times defensive liabilities. Just have to hope that the young legs are good defensively if they can't put up offensively. And yes I expect guys like Z, Pavs, Mule, Fils, and Cleary to step it up and score more than usual, particularly Pavs and Z. ~ Z Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) I have, so I'll summarize this dead horse beating (and backtracking) I'm witnessing. I think his message was taken wrong because he wrote "88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points" like 4 times as if it is some sort of impending doom. Then he wrote: This implies that we're definitely going to be down 88 goals next season. To which many have replied that they believe Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader will step it up. His response to that: Most think the OP is off in his assessment of Leino, Abby, and Helmer. After all, Leino scored 5 goals & 4 assists in 13 games in the regular season, including a goal in his first NHL game ever. What he did in one AHL season while waiting to play in the NHL is really not worth measuring. Then there's Abby who scored two goals in the Finals, and Helmer who was very impressive, at least to me, in the playoffs. The OP finished up with: and Oh, then what is the OP saying? He certainley seems to be expecting the worst. I wouldn't call it "panicking," tho. And don't the Wings have to work hard every year? It's not like we've coasted every year into the playoffs. I don't expect us to blow up the league, but I also don't expect us to fall to the 8 seed. The usual rebuttal, mine included, is to be optimistic instead of doom & gloom, and to realize that we scored fewer goals without Hossa and won the Cup in '08. The difference between '08 and '09 season is defense. This past season we didn't have it together. We lost. As for losing Samuelsson and Hudler, we just move on. We have good young talent and despite the goals scored by either Sammy or Huds, they were at times defensive liabilities. Just have to hope that the young legs are good defensively if they can't put up offensively. And yes I expect guys like Z, Pavs, Mule, Fils, and Cleary to step it up and score more than usual, particularly Pavs and Z. ~ Z Why are 13 regular season games more indicative then 60 or so AHL games? Yes some of the scoring will be replaced but not all of it by any means... I mean why should teams even pay players like Hossa when you could fill out your roster with AHL'ers at 1/10th of the price? The Wings young talent? Hudler was the developed young talent on the front line... Everyone else is still a question mark... Thats the thing people are forgetting Hudler had reached a point where he is a known quantity and also a player with a recognizable future with an expanded role... Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader are no more known quantities then Howard... And most feel Abie still needs another year or so developing below NHL level... You want your cake and eat it to... Leino might be ROY, he might crash and burn... He has the same weakness defensively and is not a much better skater then Hudler... Yet a fully developed Hudler is worse then Leino... Get real... If 2 of the 4 (Helm, Howard, Leino, Abie) step up and play Red Wings level hockey (as we expect it to be played) I will be thrilled... Honestly right now Howard is probably the most important of those to succeed... As it is right now this is not as good a team as last years... And while people try and bring it up as in comparison it is not even closely as deep and good as the 07'-08' cup winners... Edited July 10, 2009 by Wingseroo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 Why are 13 regular season games more indicative then 60 or so AHL games? Leino actually said that he preferred playing at the NHL level. The game is faster and his teammates were better and it overall more suited how he likes to play. What's more, and it's been said in this thread, he was most likely bored/disappointed with the AHL because he expected to be playing in the bigs; he was the MVP and 2nd in scoring in the Finnish Elite League so he knows he deserves a shot in the NHL. Granted, nothing guarantees anything, but it's fair to think he's going to have a good season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 I really dont think the Wings need to do anything drastic. My Ideal off-season would be just to sign a bottom six forward to a two-year contract with a cap hit around 1 million. This way we still have a nice core and we dont blow our load and are set up nicely going into next season with room to make splash if we so choose. Pavel Datsyuk ($6.7m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.1m) / Johan Franzen ($4.0m)/ Valtteri Filppula ($3.0m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.8m)/ * Darren Helm ($1.2m) / Ville Leino ($0.8m) * Justin Abdelkader ($1.0m)/ Kris Draper ($1.6m) / *Mike Grier ($1.0m) DEFENSEMEN Brian Rafalaski ($6.0m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.0m) Brad Stuart ($3.8m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.0m) Jonathan Ericsson ($0.9m) / * #6 Dman ($0.8m) * #7 Dman ($0.6m) GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood ($1.4m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.7m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER: 19; PAYROLL: $49.305m; CAP ROOM: $7.495m This gives us options. Our bottom six forwards and top 5 dmen are set, as well as our goaltending (hopefully). We could move Cleary up to the 2nd line and pick up another third liner if we choose. Cleary is capable. Or we could keep him on the third line and use 7 million towards signing two top six forwards. By the way, I gave Helm and Abby raises since they are RFAs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 Leino actually said that he preferred playing at the NHL level. The game is faster and his teammates were better and it overall more suited how he likes to play. What's more, and it's been said in this thread, he was most likely bored/disappointed with the AHL because he expected to be playing in the bigs; he was the MVP and 2nd in scoring in the Finnish Elite League so he knows he deserves a shot in the NHL. Granted, nothing guarantees anything, but it's fair to think he's going to have a good season. So what do you do when he gets bored/disappointed because he is not getting #1 ice time... And well guess what that talent level around him last year is reduced... So you want a pouty athlete that only plays full bore when everyone concedes to his wishes... You know Federov could have been one of the handful of greatest that ever played the game, but now he is out of the NHL and didn't even get to 500 goals... Howard set an NCAA GAA record in college... Leino has proven nothing, and is an unknown until he laces them up for a good stretch of games... I support him 100%, but he isn't Alexander Ovechkin... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 So what do you do when he gets bored/disappointed because he is not getting #1 ice time... And well guess what that talent level around him last year is reduced... So you want a pouty athlete that only plays full bore when everyone concedes to his wishes... You know Federov could have been one of the handful of greatest that ever played the game, but now he is out of the NHL and didn't even get to 500 goals... Howard set an NCAA GAA record in college... Leino has proven nothing, and is an unknown until he laces them up for a good stretch of games... I support him 100%, but he isn't Alexander Ovechkin... You just proved that minor league stats don't dictate how a player will do in the NHL level. He prefers the NHL. If you sign with a team as one of the top players and then are sent down to the minor leagues because of depth, it is going to affect your game. When you play in the NHL, there is a lot more drive for many players. He isn't being spoiled. If he was Holland wouldn't have signed an extension. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsCaptain 0 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Why are 13 regular season games more indicative then 60 or so AHL games? Yes some of the scoring will be replaced but not all of it by any means... I mean why should teams even pay players like Hossa when you could fill out your roster with AHL'ers at 1/10th of the price? The Wings young talent? Hudler was the developed young talent on the front line... Everyone else is still a question mark... Thats the thing people are forgetting Hudler had reached a point where he is a known quantity and also a player with a recognizable future with an expanded role... Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader are no more known quantities then Howard... And most feel Abie still needs another year or so developing below NHL level... You want your cake and eat it to... Leino might be ROY, he might crash and burn... He has the same weakness defensively and is not a much better skater then Hudler... Yet a fully developed Hudler is worse then Leino... Get real... Want my cake and eat it too? That made no sense whatsoever in that context. But whatever. I think you're missing the point here. Leino isn't some brand new draft pick, fresh out of the minors. He was a late-bloomer, he's got skill, and he's spent plenty of time playing pro hockey. Is he as skilled as Hudler? I'd be willing to wager that he is. A year ago, when the Wings won the Cup, I wasn't particularly impressed with Huds. He improved this year, but who expected that? So if an "under-developed" Leino can score 5 goals and 4 assists on the 3rd and 4th lines in 13 games, then color me impressed. Because when he is "developed," he's going to make Holland say "Jiri who?" after Huds is done playing in the KHL. Helm isn't a known quantity? What playoffs have you been watching? He may have more playoff games in the NHL than regular season games, but we know he's a gamer. Did anyone suggest otherwise in the playoffs this year? No. He's played on the biggest stage and performed well. Confidence is a real shot in the arm, and the boy has it. Abby is the only question mark and even he scored twice in the finals. I'll beat the dead horse again since you didn't read my post(s). We don't need to replace all of the scoring or even have lofty expectations for the young guys. We need to play better "D." You asked why teams should even pay players like Hossa? We shouldn't. We already have 3 high-end players in Z, Pavs, and Mule to put up Hossa-like numbers. Most teams don't have that. The other regulars will pitch in their goals and we'll be fine. If 2 of the 4 (Helm, Howard, Leino, Abie) step up and play Red Wings level hockey (as we expect it to be played) I will be thrilled... Honestly right now Howard is probably the most important of those to succeed... Howard is a bust. They would've kept Conklin if they could have. They'll continue to ride Osgood until the wheels fall off or one of the other young goalies is ready, whichever comes first. Unless Howard has been working with Bedard and makes tremendous strides he will be dealt. We'll see come training camp. As it is right now this is not as good a team as last years... And while people try and bring it up as in comparison it is not even closely as deep and good as the 07'-08' cup winners... Not even closely as deep, eh? I guess. In '07-'08 we had Hasek (no-show) and Drake. Hossa didn't play the year we won, as you know. So who else is gone now that wasn't here in '07-'08? Hudler, Kopecky, and Sammy, replaced by Leino, Helm, and whoever Holland grabs off the market. We're not as deep, but only by a slim margin. Actually, the loss of Kopecky was a gain by default. ~ Z Edited July 10, 2009 by WingsCaptain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsCaptain 0 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) So what do you do when he gets bored/disappointed because he is not getting #1 ice time... And well guess what that talent level around him last year is reduced... So you want a pouty athlete that only plays full bore when everyone concedes to his wishes... You know Federov could have been one of the handful of greatest that ever played the game, but now he is out of the NHL and didn't even get to 500 goals... Howard set an NCAA GAA record in college... Leino has proven nothing, and is an unknown until he laces them up for a good stretch of games... I support him 100%, but he isn't Alexander Ovechkin... That's assuming a lot about Leino's character. Pouty? Bored/disappointed because he's not getting #1 ice time? The man proved himself in the Finnish Elite League, was willing to spend a season in the minors to get a chance to play at the NHL level the following year, and just accepted a very reasonable salary contract. He's only shown class so far. And he doesn't need to be AO. I watched AO 16 times in person this past season. Nobody is in AO's class as a goal scorer. We just need Leino to be himself. ~ Z Edited July 10, 2009 by WingsCaptain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hack & Whack Rule! 160 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 Seriously, let it play out. People get boat loads of money to figure this s*** out. I don't see the point of stressing or panicking over the deals made and not made. Sit back, have a coke and smile and shut the f*** up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 Sit back, have a coke and smile and shut the f*** up. More like a valium or prozac. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NomadFromKazoo 42 Report post Posted July 10, 2009 ...Subtract 88 goals... Oh...my....God....we're going to play with an active roster of 19 next year? Wow. We are so screwed. BTW, can you show me a link for that? I hadn't heard it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted July 11, 2009 Oh...my....God....we're going to play with an active roster of 19 next year? Wow. We are so screwed. BTW, can you show me a link for that? I hadn't heard it. Try this: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1752749 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeWingsfan80 209 Report post Posted July 11, 2009 Try this: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1752749 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) Ok, the reaction to this thread is absurd. The Wings had unbelievably bad defense during the regular season and worst goaltending, and now just lost a third of its offense putting them in the hole from last year by more than a goal per game; as well as losing a pretty darn good two-way forward and facing the fact our #2 PKing defensive Dman may miss a decent chunk of LTIR, assuming he can come back. Yeah, let's just ridicule anyone who is concerned over that. Knock it off. Hopefully last year's defense and goaltending was a blip, largely due to a Stanley Cup hangover and it will get back to its league-leading ways -- but that is not going to happen with the snap of Holland's fingers. Ericsson should be an important upgrade, but a steady Conklin was replaced with an unproven Howard and a lot of vets, including Osgood and our top two defensemen are a year older and fresh off their third deep playoffs run. Next year will be a much bigger challenge than usual for this team, I think. Hopefully they respond as they did after the Conference Finals loss to Anaheim, but that is certainly not a given. Hopefully the rookies can invigorate this team with some fresh blood and energy and coupled with the drive from the vets, can make up a good portion of those points, as well as clamp down on defense and goaltending again. Obviously we will be rooting for them; but let's not fool ourselves and think the Wings can coast through another regular season scoring 4 goals a game again this year. Edited July 11, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hack & Whack Rule! 160 Report post Posted July 11, 2009 I think the level of absurdity was set with the OP. It's a high bar that many have attempted to reach...alas, none have. To state the statistics (try saying that five times fast) that were in the original post, someone had to have found a panic pill to swallow. The gaps left by exiting players will be filled, although I agree that it may not be the same caliber of player. The GF, as well as the D will be backstopped with other players who want to be here, like Ericsson, Helm and Leino. I, personally, do not, ever, believe the Winged Wonders will coast through a season. I believe they go through every season with drive, determination, and most of all, a tribute to teamwork. We, as fans, get emotional and confused. But we are fans, not part of Red Wing ownership or management. They are going to do whatever they want. I'm saying we need to sit back, wait for another glorious season of hockey, and enjoy the team we love to love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 11, 2009 We, as fans, get emotional and confused. But we are fans, not part of Red Wing ownership or management. They are going to do whatever they want. I'm saying we need to sit back, wait for another glorious season of hockey, and enjoy the team we love to love. In order for some people to enjoy it, they have to complain. They will do that to the max until they find out they have a cancerous tumor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 11, 2009 I think the level of absurdity was set with the OP. It's a high bar that many have attempted to reach...alas, none have. To state the statistics (try saying that five times fast) that were in the original post, someone had to have found a panic pill to swallow. The gaps left by exiting players will be filled, although I agree that it may not be the same caliber of player. The GF, as well as the D will be backstopped with other players who want to be here, like Ericsson, Helm and Leino. I, personally, do not, ever, believe the Winged Wonders will coast through a season. I believe they go through every season with drive, determination, and most of all, a tribute to teamwork. We, as fans, get emotional and confused. But we are fans, not part of Red Wing ownership or management. They are going to do whatever they want. I'm saying we need to sit back, wait for another glorious season of hockey, and enjoy the team we love to love. Good for you.... seriously. But get a clue if you think this is the most absurd OP in LGW's history - this one is simply a fact. I actually really hope the Stanley Cup Hangover is real and they coasted through parts of the season last year (as several players alluded to in interviews, Osgood springing to mind initially), because if not, and that was them giving their all, we could be in big trouble next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
