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I honestly don't care how one line of text is received (not it's content, but it's form) by a bunch of anonymous people on the internet.

Tell me more about an online conversation "ending in tears," though. Do you really take this that seriously? Really?

Honestly, with me it's probably safest to assume that I'm speaking tongue-in-cheek if there's any doubt about my tone.

In fact, if someone uses the phrase "end in tears" odds are they're being factious.

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To be fair, it's probably tough to spot something subtle like a shoulder impingement if you're doing a cursory examination. I imagine you'd need a physiotherapist to discover something like that.

I've got a nice little shoulder impingement that's been bothering me for 3 years now. I can workout like normal, but my flexibility is significantly effected and there is a big difference in the relative strengths of my shoulders. I still can't do a flat bench press using a barbell. I've had to use dumbbells for bench ever since I messed that shoulder up. Plus I can't scratch that side of my back much at all. :P That shoulder even hangs down and forward too much, so when I'm doing deadlifts one side of the bar is noticeably hanging lower than the other. :lol:

Then again, I suppose it must be something your average spots doc would look for given how common this type of problem is in baseball (and I'm assuming most sports docs would treat athletes from a variety of sports).

Who knows? If I had to guess I'd say this injury would be caused by the following activities, in order of likelihood:

1) Playing NHL hockey

2) Weightlifting (as a means of maintaining his physical fitness for NHL activities, and thus part of his contract)

3) Breakdancing

4) Other non-hockey related activities.

Your analysis makes sense, which is a good possibility to why this injury wasn't noticed by the Chicago doctor till after. He could have even been injured in game seven of the SCF. We don't know for sure, and unless he was injured the entire playoffs, we can't just let him hide behind the injury and say "It's alright Marian, nothing you could do."

A question I have, however, is did Marian suddenly tell the doctor shortly after signing the papers, or is he making up some kind of excuse as to why he told them well after becoming a Hawk? Perhaps better insurance policy in Chicago?

Also, breakdancing should be replaced with this:

Edited by Doc Holiday

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To be fair, it's probably tough to spot something subtle like a shoulder impingement if you're doing a cursory examination. I imagine you'd need a physiotherapist to discover something like that.

I've got a nice little shoulder impingement that's been bothering me for 3 years now. I can workout like normal, but my flexibility is significantly effected and there is a big difference in the relative strengths of my shoulders. I still can't do a flat bench press using a barbell. I've had to use dumbbells for bench ever since I messed that shoulder up. Plus I can't scratch that side of my back much at all. :P That shoulder even hangs down and forward too much, so when I'm doing deadlifts one side of the bar is noticeably hanging lower than the other. :lol:

Then again, I suppose it must be something your average spots doc would look for given how common this type of problem is in baseball (and I'm assuming most sports docs would treat athletes from a variety of sports).

Who knows? If I had to guess I'd say this injury would be caused by the following activities, in order of likelihood:

1) Playing NHL hockey

2) Weightlifting (as a means of maintaining his physical fitness for NHL activities, and thus part of his contract)

3) Breakdancing

4) Other non-hockey related activities.

I've had the exact same injury on my left shoulder (15 years ago - got me a cortisone injection along with physical therapy); waaay tooo much heavy weight lifting back then...Doesn't bother me when doing daily stuff - however when I go work out my left shoulder tends to stiffen up <_<

Sux gettin' old.

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He could have even been injured in game seven of the SCF. We don't know for sure, and unless he was injured the entire playoffs, we can't just let him hide behind the injury and say "It's alright Marian, nothing you could do."

Also, breakdancing should be replaced with this:

Oh I agree 100%. I don't really care all that much about his injury, if he's in the line-up he bares responsibility for the loss that's porportional to: A) His performance, B) His relative place on the team (ie. Hossa not showing up is more damaging than Hudler not showing up and one of the two is paid 7 times more than the other anyway), C) How easy/cathartic it is to blame him.

Plus, if Nick Lidstrom can have his nutsack torn open in the WCF and play all 7 games of the Finals, no one in the line-up can whine about being injured.

I mean come on- can you imagine how painful skating would be after testicular surgery? You're putting stress on week-old sutures with every single stride! Testicular sutures.

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I've had the exact same injury on my left shoulder (15 years ago - got me a cortisone injection along with physical therapy); waaay tooo much heavy weight lifting back then...Doesn't bother me when doing daily stuff - however when I go work out my left shoulder tends to stiffen up <_<

Sux gettin' old.

I'm 25 and I have to wear a compression sleeve on my right knee and right ankle at the gym. Plus I've got scoliosis so I wear a nice weight belt when I do heavy squats (anything over 2.5 plates a side). And I've got the whole cruddy shoulder thing too. I'm anticipating a inglorious trip to old age. Hell, sometimes I feel like an old man even now. (stupid asymmetric body) :lol:

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I love how this story comes out for the first time on the 21st of July. Regardless, Cleary was injured too, and still produced. It isnt an excuse (as much as Wings fans wish it were in regards to the Cup)

Cleary's injury was actually a bigger blow than most think since he was one of the most important all around contributors on the team this year and his play around the net was the only thing replacing Holmtrom's failure to provide that unique specialization.

All in all I think we're really lucky that Cleary's come into his own in that area of the game. Holmstrom's decline would've been much more damaging if it weren't for Cleary.

I can't wait to see how a line of Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary produces once they've had a year to develop chemistry.

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Oh I agree 100%. I don't really care all that much about his injury, if he's in the line-up he bares responsibility for the loss that's porportional to: A) His performance, B) His relative place on the team (ie. Hossa not showing up is more damaging than Hudler not showing up and one of the two is paid 7 times more than the other anyway), C) How easy/cathartic it is to blame him.

Plus, if Nick Lidstrom can have his nutsack torn open in the WCF and play all 7 games of the Finals, no one in the line-up can whine about being injured.

I mean come on- can you imagine how painful skating would be after testicular surgery? You're putting stress on week-old sutures with every single stride! Testicular sutures.

The initial impact may have hurt, but after you get the stitches, it's just skin. It wouldn't hurt more than getting stitches on your arm or something.

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Cleary's injury was actually a bigger blow than most think since he was one of the most important all around contributors on the team this year and his play around the net was the only thing replacing Holmtrom's failure to provide that unique specialization.

All in all I think we're really lucky that Cleary's come into his own in that area of the game. Holmstrom's decline would've been much more damaging if it weren't for Cleary.

I can't wait to see how a line of Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary produces once they've had a year to develop chemistry.

His play around the net is now on par or better then Homers IMO, he cant screen and get his ass into the goalies head like Homer does, but he can tip the puck like it`s nobodys buisness. And to the bolded, I`m already calling a career year for Dano if he gets significant icetime with them, in 08 he was playing fantastic hockey and having the best year of his life (besting his numbers of the previous year in just 62 games) when he had his season ended against Toronto, and didnt play very well during the playoffs until the Finals (but hey, that`s all that mattered!)

Unlike the doom and gloomers, I`ve very excited to see how Franzen, and Cleary, and the kids step up this year

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You're so desperate to save face that you're exploiting whatever iota of doubt that still exists as a last-ditch effort to one-up me. Maybe instead of faulting me for introducing some information that vindicates Hossa, you should come to grips with the fact that he left the team and that you've now lost your scapegoat.

The only person acting like a child is the one whose arguments resemble those of a child. Hint: it's not me.

Going forward, he's a pearl of wisdom: adults can use capital letters to.

If I may play devil's advocate for a second....

I think Hossa was unfairly singled out by alot of people on here. On the other hand, that doesn't erase the fact that Hossa was one of the players did not step up when we needed him to. As far as the injury, I don't think there's enough evidence out there either way to say it had an effect.

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If I may play devil's advocate for a second....

I think Hossa was unfairly singled out by alot of people on here. On the other hand, that doesn't erase the fact that Hossa was one of the players did not step up when we needed him to. As far as the injury, I don't think there's enough evidence out there either way to say it had an effect.

Agreed.

Not sure who blamed the loss solely on Hossa but he's not without blame. Dude scored 40 goals in the regular season and only managed to score 6 in the playoffs. And those 6 were only in 3 games.

If he was injured, that's unfortunate. But he was healthy enough to continue playing and healthy enough to escape any injury report in or after the playoffs. He also passed a physical.

Wait until the full story comes out to start the gotcha's.

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Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.

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Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.

I have no idea. All I know is that you have to pass a physical for a trade to go through and I imagine it's the same for a Free Agency signing though it could be different. If you're signing a guy to a 12 year deal you'd think they'd want him to pass a physical first. If he has a torn rotator cuff he ain't passing anything.

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Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.

I don't think it's required in any pro league. But it's something alot of teams do before they fully commit. (which is smart)

This whole thing seems kind of strange to me. With all the scrutiny Hossa was getting during and after the finals, you'd think an injury report would come out. You never heard anything all throughout the free-agency process or in any of the press conferences.

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Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.

I imagine it's a risk/reward type of thing and is based heavily on the opinion of the team physician(s). I don't think it's mandated that they can't sign a contract without a 100% clean bill of health, though, I assume that's something that individual teams would police effectively on their own.

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I imagine it's a risk/reward type of thing and is based heavily on the opinion of the team physician(s). I don't think it's mandated that they can't sign a contract without a 100% clean bill of health, though, I assume that's something that individual teams would police effectively on their own.

Then why do you preach about not being 100% sure if it happened during the playoffs yet you act certain that he passed his physical?

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Then why do you preach about not being 100% sure if it happened during the playoffs yet you act certain that he passed his physical?

I didn't act certain he passed his physical. What are the parameters of passing? That he's 100% healthy? Very unlikely for a 30 year old professional athlete-- there's bound to be some distant injury that's nagging him, even lightly, or at least slightly more likely to resurface than with a fresh-faced teen. No, he's clearly going to be evaluated based on what they expect and what would significantly hurt his play. Is he injured? How much? What's the long term prognosis? Are the Blackhawks willing to accept this prognosis? I never acted as if I knew the answer to those questions. I clearly believe that this situation isn't a surprise to the Hawks front office, I expect they did their due diligence. I have a hard time believing they didn't go over him with a fine toothed comb before signing him to a 12 year contract.

How can anyone with the information we currently have be 100% sure his injury occurred during the playoffs? A crystal ball? I believe it's highly probable this injury either arose during or just before the playoffs, based on logic and strong anecdotal evidence.

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I've said many times before that Hossa was at the very least roughed up pretty bad in the playoffs. He took a few hits in the first couple rounds that clearly left him in a lot of pain as he struggled to skate off the ice. There was one in particular from Pronger I believe where Hossa was held up by another guy behind the net that was particularly brutal not to mention cheap and that came after all the other major hits I remember. I was thinking then that there's no way this guy can be even close to 100% out there after taking that many huge hits. And that was well before the finals and even semi's when everyone was crying about his production. And on top of that, he had a couple rough incidents towards the end of the season.

And why is it that he took those hits? He was the target. Why? Because the guy is one of the most potent scorers in the game. And because of that he got ran more times than any Wings player in the first couple rounds. Lots of guys took some hard hits, but Hossa took numerous brutal hits, some cheaper than others. I couldn't believe he even skated off after some of them.

I'm not surprised at all to see this and it doesn't color my opinion. I still think Hossa was a great asset to this team and is a great asset to any team, injury or not; he'll heal. In terms of the playoffs this last year, I think along with injuries, pressure and then pressing too much towards the end he just struggled to score like he did in the regular season. But he was still strong for us in our end and 6 goals and 15 points isn't exactly the worst he could've done in terms of output. While Hossa may not have done as much as we would have liked, we probably wouldn't have gotten near as far without him if we had all the same injuries. Even when he was pressing and not scoring, he was creating pressure in their end, wearing guys out and helping on D.

We lost as a team because we were just too beat up as a team. It happens. It sucks, but it happens. We probably got farther than we ever should have considering all of the injuries this team had. Continuing to single guys out is silly. The reality is, we came up 2 goals short in Game 7 despite it all. That's still something worth being proud of and worth remembering.

And we'll be back...

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I didn't act certain he passed his physical. What are the parameters of passing? That he's 100% healthy? Very unlikely for a 30 year old professional athlete-- there's bound to be some distant injury that's nagging him, even lightly, or at least slightly more likely to resurface than with a fresh-faced teen. No, he's clearly going to be evaluated based on what they expect and what would significantly hurt his play. Is he injured? How much? What's the long term prognosis? Are the Blackhawks willing to accept this prognosis? I never acted as if I knew the answer to those questions. I clearly believe that this situation isn't a surprise to the Hawks front office, I expect they did their due diligence. I have a hard time believing they didn't go over him with a fine toothed comb before signing him to a 12 year contract.

How can anyone with the information we currently have be 100% sure his injury occurred during the playoffs? A crystal ball? I believe it's highly probable this injury either arose during or just before the playoffs, based on logic and strong anecdotal evidence.

Nevermind, it was heaton who said he passed his physical.

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yea potential two-way power forward who could get like 30-40 goals easily and can fight

Lol. Ya he's a terrific fighter. Most of the greats get their cheek broken by old men like Beauchemin. Kopecky will not amount to much. I'm sure you also predicted Jason Williams would be a 30-40 goal scorer when he left.

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