Devellano says Wings close to signing Bertuzzi

[uk_redwing 495]

Please.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Cheap shots happen in hockey. Doesn't mean they should have their careers ended for it.

well, unfortunately, cheap shots can result in career ending injuries.

moore threw his fair share of cheap shots. it's not inconceivable that one of them could have resulted in a career ending injury. bertuzzi didn't intend to hurt moore like he did.

you said it yourself, cheap shots happen in hockey.

[hockey23 79]

Fine with Bert back in D but not for $1.5M. Although, between Williams and Bert, I think that Bert is worth the 1.5M more than Williams is.

At this point, as long as he fits under the cap, it doesn't matter to me.

[gcom007 1,465]

Dear God I hope this doesn't happen. They don't need or want him.

This is incredibly logical considering we're negotiating with him and apparently have offered him a contract. Thank you for this brilliant contribution.

[rage 24]

This is incredibly logical considering we're negotiating with him and apparently have offered him a contract. Thank you for this brilliant contribution.

:rotflmao:

I know!! It had me rolling on the floor, and I bolded those parts too in my reply!!

[hockey23 79]

Any "official" release if Bert signed?...Nothing on TSN.

No one has said he has signed. They just said they're negotiating and a deal is likely. Nothing's done yet.

[daniel1 32]

Sure, why not? If Bert comes cheap then it's a one-year gamble for very little cabbage. Worst case scenario is that he gets injured and we plug Abby into more games. Bert does add some size on the forecheck, a definite net-presence, and a bit of snarl into an otherwise very snarl-less group of forwards. I think he'd do well (assuming healthy) in a third line role and occasional 2nd PP unit. If Homer or Mule goes down we have another big body with good hands to stand in front of the net. I think Bert can manage 20+ goals if he can stay healthy and play enough defense to get a regular shift. I'll be more than happy to see him take someone out if they cheap shot Pav or Z. I hear Bert has big man-crushes for talented, good-looking Swedes so let's put his locker next to Hank's.

As for roster room Eaves can play with GR if we're out of spots. Helm, Leino, Williams and Bert replace Hossa, Sammy, Hudler and Kopecky - - - that's an overall improvement in my book especially after seeing what Hossa "didn't" do in the playoffs. We can't carry eight D so either Lils is out for the season or we trade one Lebda or Meech. This will free up some cap room and give us some good competition at training camp too.

[eva unit zero 271]

Why not? A cheap shot for a cheap shot. Bertuzzi just got unlucky with the damage he caused or for that matter the pile up after caused. Well you said it yourself cheap shots happen in hockey. What Bert did was a cheapshot so by your standards it happens I guess. Bertuzzi didn't mean to end his career he meant to show him what happens when you mess with a 50 goal scoring, captain of his team. Yeah the result was horrible but its not like he grabbed the guy by the neck and twisted or something, his intent wasn't to end his career.

Moore's hit, if called a cheap shot, is as close to legal as a cheap shot gets. Of all plays since I have been alive, Bert's attack on Moore is the one that was intended to cause severe injury more than any other. Bert intended to at the very least put Moore out for the same time Naslund was out. He didn't intend to end his career...but injury WAS the intent and looking at the action you can't say he wasn't trying to cause severe injury. Other situations that have caused major injury are typically simply normal plays that happen in awkward situations where a player will cross check or slash another player as happens all the time, and due to positioning or something, the receiving player is severely injured. Such as Lemieux on Draper or Samuelsson on Neely. In neither situation were they trying to cause severe harm to the other player. Yes, both times it was a dirty cross check. Neither time was it one player trying to ruin another player's career or to severely injure him. Bertuzzi felt remorseful after his actions, but given the way he relentlessly pursued Moore and then viciously assaulted him, it's hard to argue that he was not trying to cause severe injury to Steve Moore.

[gcom007 1,465]

I can't believe you people are actually putting any defense in what Bertuzzi did.

What a bunch of ******* bulls***. I'll welcome him to Detroit, but there is no excuse for what Bert did. None at all, and putting any fault in Moore because he put in a dirty check to a player is so far off base I can't believe it is coming from members at LGW. Who the f*** do you people think you are?

Cheap shots happen in hockey. Doesn't mean they should have their careers ended for it.

No one's making excuses for what he did. I don't think anyone's condoning the cheap shots at all. I don't think anyone's said that the cheap shots are acceptable at all. But you're flat out crazy if you think Bertuzzi's aim was to end his career let alone cause any serious injury. That's about where the defending Bertuzzi. It was a cheap shot, plain and simple. Like you said, they happen in hockey.

The difference in Bertuzzi's case is that a worst case scenario situation occured. Had he not gotten jumped by Moore's teammates sending a plethora of weight into Moore's body, Moore likely would've sustained minimal injuries and the story dies fast and most likely call it even between the clubs.

But Bertuzzi did get jumped after and Moore subsequently sustained far more impact in a far more vulnerable position than he would've had the situation not escalated the way it did.

There are countless cheap shots that happen every season that could easily end far worse than they do if a guy falls funny or hits a board funny or a pileup happens on top of a downed player. What about Kronwall's hit on Havlat in Game 3 of the WCF? What if someone fell on Havlat in a funny way and he sustained worse injuries? What if he hit the boards funny before anyone else even arrived on the and suffered more serious neck/back injuries? You know what happens? Kronwall becomes public enemy number 1 and everyone and their mother in the league and the media wants his head. That's just how it goes. Doesn't matter at that point if it was a clean hit or not because all anyone sees is a guy who's suffered very serious injuries. All logic and reason is suspended.

Bertuzzi's situation was obviously much more of a blatant cheap shot. Again, no one's arguing that. But again, plenty of cheapshots happen every night that have the potential to be incredibly dangerous and thankfully most aren't. Bertuzzi and Moore weren't so lucky. I'm sorry if I can see that and give a little grace to the guy as opposed to burning him at the stake like most have.

Again, what if while McCarty was beating the life out of Lemieux in '97 a Colorado player jumped McCarty and they landed on a vulnerable Lemieux yielding a similar situation to the Moore incident? Are you going to throw McCarty under the bus? Somehow I doubt it.

[gcom007 1,465]

Moore's hit, if called a cheap shot, is as close to legal as a cheap shot gets. Of all plays since I have been alive, Bert's attack on Moore is the one that was intended to cause severe injury more than any other. Bert intended to at the very least put Moore out for the same time Naslund was out. He didn't intend to end his career...but injury WAS the intent and looking at the action you can't say he wasn't trying to cause severe injury. Other situations that have caused major injury are typically simply normal plays that happen in awkward situations where a player will cross check or slash another player as happens all the time, and due to positioning or something, the receiving player is severely injured. Such as Lemieux on Draper or Samuelsson on Neely. In neither situation were they trying to cause severe harm to the other player. Yes, both times it was a dirty cross check. Neither time was it one player trying to ruin another player's career or to severely injure him. Bertuzzi felt remorseful after his actions, but given the way he relentlessly pursued Moore and then viciously assaulted him, it's hard to argue that he was not trying to cause severe injury to Steve Moore.

Well, as I've said numerous times, what do we Wings fans call McCarty's merciless beat-down on Lemieux?

[Casey 145]

This is incredibly logical considering we're negotiating with him and apparently have offered him a contract. Thank you for this brilliant contribution.

They want what he could theoretically be. Problem is, he's not going to be that.

[rage 24]

Well, as I've said numerous times, what do we Wings fans call McCarty's merciless beat-down on Lemieux?

Yeah, I already brought that up.

Sometimes we have to wear our blinders, and I get that. But something serious could have happed to turtle just as well.

Anyway, we all had this big old debate the first time we got him. I hope we don't have to have it again!!

If so, we need two threads! One for the Bertuzzi controversy (that happened years ago mind you!) and one for discussing the signing and possible line combos, impact to the team, etc.

[kylee 727]

bertuzzi for a year @ 1.5

its a low risk deal,

i say go for it and it should be interesting

[Cern 0]

I really don't like Bert for a number of reasons, but at least he's a better (potential) acquisition than Jason 'Useless' Williams.

Although if we really want to go after tough guys whose careers have gone down the s***ter due to criminal acts, why can't we get Mark Bell instead? He'd be a heck of a lot cheaper and would likely be more versatile.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I just went through my spreadsheet and if Bert is being offered 1.5 million that will take the Wings over the cap by $921,868...

Dumping Meech or Lebda won't fix that. The only way to fix that is to either keep Helm in GR AND dump Meech or Lebda OR dump Lilja. Dumping Meech AND Lebda would be too risky because it wouldn't leave enough to hire a league minimum injury replacement on defense. Given that Meech is making less than $500,000, I don't see him leaving this year.

If the Wings keep Lilja on LTIR entering the season they'll only have $328,132 in cap space going forward. Once Lilja is healthy they'd be forced to dump Lebda or Meech and given that every other GM would know the Wings have no choice but to dump a d-man odds are they won't get much if anything for the guy they dump in that situation.

The other option is that Bertuzzi is only getting 1 million a season and the Wings are going to dump Lebda. That'd only leave $228,132 in cap space, which is a dangerously low amount... Ideally they'd likely want to have somewhere around $500,000 in cap space to allow for injury replacements this year.

Is there a possibility that Holland knows Maltby, Draper or Holmstrom plan on retiring before the season starts? Maltby or Holmstrom could retire without a cap penalty, but Draper's contract would count against the cap since he signed his last deal when he was over 35.

I know it sounds crazy, but this kind of pick up is so expensive it seems possible that one of the current 12 forwards is not going to be around in October. Intriguing...

[Kira 451]

Good grief, first Jason Williams and now Bertuzzi??? I feel like we're doing shelter rescues, for heaven's sake.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Well, as I've said numerous times, what do we Wings fans call McCarty's merciless beat-down on Lemieux?

Not even remotely close to the same thing.

McCarty beat the hell out of him yes, but Lemieux fraking covered his head and face for the most part. Lemieux knew McCarty was gunning for him, he even took measures to protect himself from the beatdown that was coming. Todd Bertuzzi BROKE STEVE MOORE'S NECK and Moore had no opportunity to protect himself from it. You want to equate someone getting a few punches to the puss with having your NECK BROKEN? If I had the choice between Darren McCarty punching me in the face or Todd Bertuzzi breaking my neck.....I'll take my chances in Thunderdome with Darren, tyvm. Moore's hit on Naslund was dirty. That doesn't mean he deserved a BROKEN NECK because of it. I've seen tape of what Bertuzzi did. He punched him in the back of the head and then fell on him and BROKE HIS NECK.

Fighting is one thing. Hits are one things. Dirty hits are even another thing. However, BREAKING SOMEONE'S NECK is not acceptable on the ice, in the streets, on a basketball court, on a baseball field, on a football field, in a bowling alley, at a restaurant, in school, in any arena of life you may encounter. I don't care if the broken neck part was not intended. He intended to cause great physical harm to Moore because he started this fracas off by punching him in the back of the head. The broken neck was the cherry on Bertuzzi's sundae. You can stand up for your teammate without being a punk. If someone leveled a cheap shot on Nick, would you want someone on our team to do this to someone? How would you feel about that player afterward?

To respond to a point you made further up the thread, if Darren McCarty broke Claude Lemieux's neck, I would absolutely throw him under the bus for it. That s*** is not acceptable. You want to get revenge on Turtle Boy for what he did to your best friend, I'm pretty sure you can do it without BREAKING HIS NECK. What the hell is this s***, the MMA?

[Vladiator 116]

I just went through my spreadsheet and if Bert is being offered 1.5 million that will take the Wings over the cap by $921,868...

Dumping Meech or Lebda won't fix that. The only way to fix that is to either keep Helm in GR AND dump Meech or Lebda OR dump Lilja. Dumping Meech AND Lebda would be too risky because it wouldn't leave enough to hire a league minimum injury replacement on defense. Given that Meech is making less than $500,000, I don't see him leaving this year.

If the Wings keep Lilja on LTIR entering the season they'll only have $328,132 in cap space going forward. Once Lilja is healthy they'd be forced to dump Lebda or Meech and given that every other GM would know the Wings have no choice but to dump a d-man odds are they won't get much if anything for the guy they dump in that situation.

The other option is that Bertuzzi is only getting 1 million a season and the Wings are going to dump Lebda. That'd only leave $228,132 in cap space, which is a dangerously low amount... Ideally they'd likely want to have somewhere around $500,000 in cap space to allow for injury replacements this year.

Is there a possibility that Holland knows Maltby, Draper or Holmstrom plan on retiring before the season starts? Maltby or Holmstrom could retire without a cap penalty, but Draper's contract would count against the cap since he signed his last deal when he was over 35.

I know it sounds crazy, but this kind of pick up is so expensive it seems possible that one of the current 12 forwards is not going to be around in October. Intriguing...

I doubt that the Wings will sign Bert for 1.5M, but I do think there is a chance that Homer is gonna hang up the skates, and obviously Lebda is going to be dealt, along with the possibility that Maltby may be traded or decide to hang up the skates as well.

What a weird off season.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

I just went through my spreadsheet and if Bert is being offered 1.5 million that will take the Wings over the cap by $921,868...

Dumping Meech or Lebda won't fix that. The only way to fix that is to either keep Helm in GR AND dump Meech or Lebda OR dump Lilja. Dumping Meech AND Lebda would be too risky because it wouldn't leave enough to hire a league minimum injury replacement on defense. Given that Meech is making less than $500,000, I don't see him leaving this year.

If the Wings keep Lilja on LTIR entering the season they'll only have $328,132 in cap space going forward. Once Lilja is healthy they'd be forced to dump Lebda or Meech and given that every other GM would know the Wings have no choice but to dump a d-man odds are they won't get much if anything for the guy they dump in that situation.

The other option is that Bertuzzi is only getting 1 million a season and the Wings are going to dump Lebda. That'd only leave $228,132 in cap space, which is a dangerously low amount... Ideally they'd likely want to have somewhere around $500,000 in cap space to allow for injury replacements this year.

Is there a possibility that Holland knows Maltby, Draper or Holmstrom plan on retiring before the season starts? Maltby or Holmstrom could retire without a cap penalty, but Draper's contract would count against the cap since he signed his last deal when he was over 35.

I know it sounds crazy, but this kind of pick up is so expensive it seems possible that one of the current 12 forwards is not going to be around in October. Intriguing...

as much a part of this team that malts, draper, and holmstrom have been, i wouldn't mind seeing all of them go. other than draper's faceoffs, they offer nothing to this team that it doesn't already have. especially if homer's playoffs are any indication of a falloff in production. let's face it, if homer can't deflect pucks in front of the net anymore (his only ******* job) he is worse than useless, he's a detriment.

that said, i'd bet the farm that none of them are going anywhere.

[Doc Holiday 0]

That's your opinion... what Moore did to Naslund was as dangerous as what Bertuzzi did to Moore, the results were just different. That's it, that's all it comes down to... leave it at that.

No it wasn't. There is no way Naslund would have had his career ended by that hit. Not even close.

No one's making excuses for what he did. I don't think anyone's condoning the cheap shots at all. I don't think anyone's said that the cheap shots are acceptable at all. But you're flat out crazy if you think Bertuzzi's aim was to end his career let alone cause any serious injury. That's about where the defending Bertuzzi. It was a cheap shot, plain and simple. Like you said, they happen in hockey.

Regardless of aim, Moore's head was driven to the ice, after a knockout sucker punch from behind.

The difference in Bertuzzi's case is that a worst case scenario situation occured. Had he not gotten jumped by Moore's teammates sending a plethora of weight into Moore's body, Moore likely would've sustained minimal injuries and the story dies fast and most likely call it even between the clubs.

The difference is that play has never happened in the history of me watching hockey. Not once have I seen a player grab another's jersey, punch them into the side of the head knocking them out, and drive their lifeless body to the ice. Headfirst. With their own weight on top of them.

The story wouldn't be as widespread if he didn't break his neck, but there would have been a huge story about it, and Bertuzzi would still have been suspended for it.

But Bertuzzi did get jumped after and Moore subsequently sustained far more impact in a far more vulnerable position than he would've had the situation not escalated the way it did.

And that was Bertuzzi's fault. Not Moore's.

There are countless cheap shots that happen every season that could easily end far worse than they do if a guy falls funny or hits a board funny or a pileup happens on top of a downed player.

Name me one play that is even close to Bertuzzi's.

What about Kronwall's hit on Havlat in Game 3 of the WCF? What if someone fell on Havlat in a funny way and he sustained worse injuries? What if he hit the boards funny before anyone else even arrived on the and suffered more serious neck/back injuries? You know what happens? Kronwall becomes public enemy number 1 and everyone and their mother in the league and the media wants his head. That's just how it goes. Doesn't matter at that point if it was a clean hit or not because all anyone sees is a guy who's suffered very serious injuries. All logic and reason is suspended.

BZZZZ. Wrong. If it was clean then there would be just a terrible accident on the ice. Anyone who gives Kronwall grief for that hit would be incorrect and have no base to blame him for ending a player's career. It's hockey. And once again, it is a body check compared to a punch and piledrive to the ice. The situations aren't comparable.

Bertuzzi's situation was obviously much more of a blatant cheap shot. Again, no one's arguing that. But again, plenty of cheapshots happen every night that have the potential to be incredibly dangerous and thankfully most aren't. Bertuzzi and Moore weren't so lucky. I'm sorry if I can see that and give a little grace to the guy as opposed to burning him at the stake like most have.

Luck may have been a factor, but I really don't think it was luck of the draw that broke Moore's neck. It was the 200+ pounder on top of him who put him there. Nine times out of ten that would have been the result, and Bertuzzi should take FULL responsibility. None of it is Moore's fault. Not a bit of it.

Again, what if while McCarty was beating the life out of Lemieux in '97 a Colorado player jumped McCarty and they landed on a vulnerable Lemieux yielding a similar situation to the Moore incident? Are you going to throw McCarty under the bus? Somehow I doubt it.

I would, but McCarty didn't sucker punch Lemieux in the back or jump on top of him with all his body. Lemieux was also conscious and was able to defend himself and likely keep himself in a better position than Moore ever had the chance to do.

They are not comparable, and there is no reason for any of you to give Moore any blame for his condition.

[rage 24]

You guys are killing me w/ all this damn debating.

[skacore 2]

No it wasn't. There is no way Naslund would have had his career ended by that hit. Not even close.

Naslund's head could have smashed off the ice... there is always a chance for something horrible to happen. Hockey can be a very dangerous sport, especially if you aren't aware of your surroundings or unwilling to defend yourself like Moore was.

[Jedi 1,865]

Ok, in an effort to try and keep things on track, I've created a new thread just to discuss the Bertuzzi & Moore incident.

So let's keep the discussion in this thread related to Bertuzzi's possible signing with the Wings, possible line combinations, salary cap issues, etc.

Thanks guys!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Haven't read any of the pages/responses so I apologize for re-stating anybody's previous points.

I wouldn't mind Bertuzzi back. He isn't what he was during the Vancouver days but he can still produce here and there. Just hope he's a bit more physical than the last time he was here during his brief stint. Who knows, the 2nd time could turn out better, you never know.

As for the whole Bertuzzi-Moore drama, nobody should forget it. And nobody should excuse Bertuzzi for what he did. I certainly don't. Pretty much everywhere I watched or read though he seemed pretty remorseful and regretful for what happened. I understand if there is still an uneasiness about him regarding this specificually from people, but for me it's all about moving on (while not forgetting) and making my peace with it. At least in terms of being suspended, he's served his time, he's getting his 2nd chance in terms of playing.

EDIT: Just saw Jedi's message after I posted. Move my blurb to that thread as necessary if y'all see fit obviously.

Edited August 18, 2009 by SouthernWingsFan

[rage 24]

Haven't read any of the pages/responses so I apologize for re-stating anybody's previous points.

I wouldn't mind Bertuzzi back. He isn't what he was during the Vancouver days but he can still produce here and there. Just hope he's a bit more physical than the last time he was here during his brief stint. Who knows, the 2nd time could turn out better, you never know.

Yeah, I agree. I think he will be better. He'll be playing w/ more talent here in Detroit than last year in Calgary. And last year he had 44pts. in 66 games.

I'll admit, I didn't get to watch Calgary games last year, so not sure how physical he was or anything.

But we gotta remember, if we are going by what he was last time he was here, he only played what, 8 games. Not much time to gel w/ our players, and not to mention he was coming off that huge back surgery, and still mustered up 4pts in those 8 games.

So with that being said, this is a low-risk, high-reward deal for me!

Bring back Bert!!!