The Bertuzzi & Moore incident

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Lemieux had to have known something was coming. Maybe not at that exact moment, but you don't just smash another player's face into a million pieces and not expect at least one teammate to go after you. You don't think Mac made any kind of threats to him during the warm up?

The way I see it is that maybe Lemeiux did get sucker punched, but that is not worse than what he did to Draper. He got let off way easy considering what he did. This was one guy going after one guy.

Moore also did something wrong with the cheap shot to Naslund, but let's not forget that the entire Vancouver Canucks team went after him and publicly threatened him in interviews. Brad May even stated that "there is a bounty on his head" in an interview which is ironic because that's exactly how it ended.

The Moore hit on Naslund happened in February. The Bertuzzi incident happened in March. There was even a game in between where nothing happened between Moore and any Canucks player. Notice how they all waited for a blowout game and then decided to go after him.

And also before the Bertuzzi incident, another Canucks player already fought Moore. You would think that a fight could be payment enough. But after the fight Bertuzzi still had to go after him. And the result of the neck breaking is much worse than what he did to Naslund.

It doesn't matter if he intended to break his neck or not. The point is where Lemieux did something to warrant at least one good punch, Moore didn't really do anything to warrant an entire team of Canucks ganging up on him. To have someone stating publicly that there is a bounty on his head...that's just wrong.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Lovin Jiri Fischer

[Echolalia 2,961]

Lemieux had to have known something was coming. Maybe not at that exact moment, but you don't just smash another player's face into a million pieces and not expect at least one teammate to go after you. You don't think Mac made any kind of threats to him during the warm up?

The way I see it is that maybe Lemeiux did get sucker punched, but that is not worse than what he did to Draper. He got let off way easy considering what he did. This was one guy going after one guy.

Moore also did something wrong with the cheap shot to Naslund, but let's not forget that the entire Vancouver Canucks team went after him and publicly threatened him in interviews. Bray May even stated that "there is a bounty on his head" which is ironic because that's exactly how it ended. The Moore hit on Naslund happened in February. The Bertuzzi incident happened in March. There was even a game in between where nothing happened. And also before the Bertuzzi incident, another Canucks player already fought Moore. You would think that a fight could be payment enough. But after the fight Bertuzzi still had to go after him. And the result of the neck breaking is much worse than what he did to Naslund.

It doesn't matter if he intended to break his neck or not. The point is where Lemieux did something to warrant at least one good punch, Moore didn't really do anything to warrant an entire team of Canucks ganging up on him. To have someone stating publicly that there is a bounty on his head...that's just wrong.

There are a couple things I want to clear up really fast.

McCarty pretty much said to the public that he was going to attack Lemieux. Something along the lines of "revenge is a dish best served cold. You never know when you're gonna get it. You never know when its coming to you." (paraphrase). He also waited for far longer than Bertuzzi did in seeking retribution.

[e_prime 1,936]

Aaron Ward seems to be a magnet for cheapshots.

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

There are a couple things I want to clear up really fast.

McCarty pretty much said to the public that he was going to attack Lemieux. Something along the lines of "revenge is a dish best served cold. You never know when you're gonna get it. You never know when its coming to you." (paraphrase). He also waited for far longer than Bertuzzi did in seeking retribution.

McCarty waited so long because Lemeiux was suspended and then injured I believe. If I remember correctly that was the first time both McCarty and Lemieux were on the ice together after the incident.

And I know McCarty said he was going to get revenge, but come on Lemieux shattered someone's face. What Moore did didn't really warrant the phrase "bounty on his head". Even McCarty didn't say anything like that. He just said revenge which was all that needed to be said.

[skacore 2]

goto 8:22

if Robitaille wasn't such a scrawny little weakling he could have possibly done some damage, is that not a suckerpunch to the back of the head? that's even worse so because he didn't tug his jersey for 3 seconds telling him "it's coming"

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Doc, you need to get off of the result of the punch aspect of it. Who knew Moore's neck was going to break?

The fact is that s***loads of players have done what Bert has done.....i.e. thrown a sucker punch on an unsuspecting player.

Sucker punches happen all the time. Bertuzzi sucker punched Moore. These are facts.

The broken neck was a freak injury, resulting from that punch. To insinuate that Bertuzzi's situation is different because he "intended" or "knew" or "tried to specifically" break Moore's neck is ridiculous.

I'm thinking more that the guys piling up on top of Bert probably resulted in the broken neck not the sucker punch. The sucker punch definitely started the whole thing.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Please don't bring back Bertuzzi, if you wanted an enforcer you should have kept Downey. I realize Bertuzzi is a little more than just and enforcer but come on we don't need a head hunter.

[rage 24]

This is great!!

I love the passion in this thread!

[cjm502 165]

McCarty was chirping at Lemieux earlier that shift too. Lemieux was just standing there with his stick and gloves on, the only one not fighting. What the hell does he expect?

1.) He knows McCarty is out there

2.) He is the only one not fighting

Claudia should have known better. Lets change the perspective here.

You are an enforcer in the NHL, and a brawl breaks out against your rival team. You see the person who broke your best friends face, and who was also voted dirtiest player in the NHL standing there. Of course you are going to go beat the hell out of the guy. I can certainly not blame McCarty for the fact that Lemieux is a dumb ass. As I see it, there is no room for argument here.

As for Bertuzzi, it was stupid. He sucker punched the guy right in the middle of the play, but that happens all the time. It was an accident that should not have happened. I also think Bertuzzi could have gotten up and things would have been a lot less worse if the opposing players did not jump on Bertuzzi. Who knows, he did not intend to break his neck, at least I hope he did not.

Edited August 18, 2009 by cjm502

[skacore 2]

McCarty was chirping at Lemieux earlier that shift too. Lemieux was just standing there with his stick and gloves on, the only one not fighting. What the hell does he expect?

1.) He knows McCarty is out there

2.) He is the only one not fighting

Claudia should have known better. Lets change the perspective here.

You are an enforcer in the NHL, and a brawl breaks out against your rival team. You see the person who broke your best friends face, and who was also voted dirtiest player in the NHL standing there. Of course you are going to go beat the hell out of the guy. I can certainly not blame McCarty for the fact that Lemieux is a dumb ass. As I see it, there is no room for argument here.

As for Bertuzzi, it was stupid. He sucker punched the guy right in the middle of the play, but that happens all the time. It was an accident that should not have happened. I also think Bertuzzi could have gotten up and things would have been a lot less worse if the opposing players did not jump on Bertuzzi. Who knows, he did not intend to break his neck, at least I hope he did not.

that goes both ways.... you are Bertuzzi, you're captain and linemate was victim of a headshot and out with concussions... you are on the ice in a blowout game with the guy who put your captain out... you grab onto his jersey and ask him to fight but he ignores you and continue to skate... he's knows damn right you are right there behind him grabbing at his jersey... you punch him in the back of the head with your glove on then when you guys hit the ice everyone else piles on...

Stick swinging incidents are 100 times worse

[Dominator2005 558]

WHO CARES?!?!?!?

[cjm502 165]

that goes both ways.... you are Bertuzzi, you're captain and linemate was victim of a headshot and out with concussions... you are on the ice in a blowout game with the guy who put your captain out... you grab onto his jersey and ask him to fight but he ignores you and continue to skate... he's knows damn right you are right there behind him grabbing at his jersey... you punch him in the back of the head with your glove on then when you guys hit the ice everyone else piles on...

Stick swinging incidents are 100 times worse

Agreed, completely gutless. Im not saying that sucker punches aren't, but come on, what kind of ****** bag uses a stick?

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

that goes both ways.... you are Bertuzzi, you're captain and linemate was victim of a headshot and out with concussions... you are on the ice in a blowout game with the guy who put your captain out... you grab onto his jersey and ask him to fight but he ignores you and continue to skate... he's knows damn right you are right there behind him grabbing at his jersey... you punch him in the back of the head with your glove on then when you guys hit the ice everyone else piles on...

Stick swinging incidents are 100 times worse

But Moore already fought with someone else during the first period of that game. Bert should have left him alone if he said he didn't want to fight.

[skacore 2]

But Moore already fought with someone else during the first period of that game. Bert should have left him alone if he said he didn't want to fight.

not in hockey my friend

[OsGOD 3]

He that gets jumped on by a lot of players will surely get something hurt

moral of the story... in coming to his defense his teamates served him up a nice dose of the chair by piling on him.

hopefully its a WELCOME BACK BERT! soon

[Guest micah]

You are an enforcer in the NHL, and a brawl breaks out against your rival team. You see the person who broke your best friends face, and who was also voted dirtiest player in the NHL standing there. Of course you are going to go beat the hell out of the guy. I can certainly not blame McCarty for the fact that Lemieux is a dumb ass. As I see it, there is no room for argument here.

A brawl didn't break out befor ethe Lemieux McCarty incident. Two players (Forsberg and Larionov iirc) had eachother in headlocks. That's it. Then McCarty popped the unsuspecting Lemieux. Should Lemieux have expected it? Probably. Should Mac, the one of the two with a rep as a fighter have given Lemieux a chance to square up and prepare for the fight? Definately.

[Guest micah]

Agreed, completely gutless. Im not saying that sucker punches aren't, but come on, what kind of ****** bag uses a stick?

A douchebag like Gordie Howe?

[e_prime 1,936]

Agreed, completely gutless. Im not saying that sucker punches aren't, but come on, what kind of ****** bag uses a stick?

This kind of douchebag:

Oh wait, this isn't the kind of stick swinging you guys are talking about.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

not in hockey my friend

I can't help but wonder if the instigator rule somewhat lead to this. Bert had Moore face to face a couple times challenging him, but Moore kept turning and skating away saying who knows what, this looks like it made Bert snap and go after him. No instigator rule and perhaps Bert grabs him from the start, beats the snot out of him for running his captain, end of story.

[esteef 2,679]

It's like headhunting Zetterberg out of the game and then thinking you've "manned up" by fighting Maltby. Moore's ***** ass got what he deserved.

Next.

esteef

[e_prime 1,936]

I know this is my second off-topic post in a row, although it does have some aforementioned stick swinging.

...but just check out the smirk on granato's face as he is apologizing.

There's not an ounce of sincerity in that apology.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Copypasta'd from the other thread:

Not even remotely close to the same thing.

McCarty beat the hell out of him yes, but Lemieux fraking covered his head and face for the most part. Lemieux knew McCarty was gunning for him, he even took measures to protect himself from the beatdown that was coming. Todd Bertuzzi BROKE STEVE MOORE'S NECK and Moore had no opportunity to protect himself from it. You want to equate someone getting a few punches to the puss with having your NECK BROKEN? If I had the choice between Darren McCarty punching me in the face or Todd Bertuzzi breaking my neck.....I'll take my chances in Thunderdome with Darren, tyvm. Moore's hit on Naslund was dirty. That doesn't mean he deserved a BROKEN NECK because of it. I've seen tape of what Bertuzzi did. He punched him in the back of the head and then fell on him and BROKE HIS NECK.

Fighting is one thing. Hits are one things. Dirty hits are even another thing. However, BREAKING SOMEONE'S NECK is not acceptable on the ice, in the streets, on a basketball court, on a baseball field, on a football field, in a bowling alley, at a restaurant, in school, in any arena of life you may encounter. I don't care if the broken neck part was not intended. He intended to cause great physical harm to Moore because he started this fracas off by punching him in the back of the head. The broken neck was the cherry on Bertuzzi's sundae. You can stand up for your teammate without being a punk. If someone leveled a cheap shot on Nick, would you want someone on our team to do this to someone? How would you feel about that player afterward?

To respond to a point you made further up the thread, if Darren McCarty broke Claude Lemieux's neck, I would absolutely throw him under the bus for it. That s*** is not acceptable. You want to get revenge on Turtle Boy for what he did to your best friend, I'm pretty sure you can do it without BREAKING HIS NECK. What the hell is this s***, the MMA?

patrick sharp speared lids in the nuts and injured him...i would take sharp and put a wings jersey on him in a heart beat. lids probably would too.

different from bertuzzi, but still a cheap shot. sometimes people act VERY irrationally, cant change the past. bertuzzi is a different player now than he was, and it's tied directly to what he did. he broke a guys neck and he has to live with that forever. and unfortunately for him, it's what he's gonna be remembered for when he retires.

if or when he signs with the wings, hopefully the media and wings fans will let him just come back and play hockey.

[Guest micah]

Gordie was well known/feared for throwing elbows (probably more so than his fists).

That said I haven't heard of any stick related incidents involving him - though I don't doubt there may have been a few throughout his career.

Somewhere I've got an interview where he claims that he'd get back at people who stole the puck from him with a buttend to the teeth behind the play. I suspect such was simply more common and more tollerated back then - but that has zero to do with the morality of the act, which is unchanged.

[Holmstrom96 347]

You can claim Lemieux knew it was coming but in my mind I saw a guy skating who sees McCarty coming (he's probably thinking...WTF) and then boom....he gets hit with a punch on the kisser.

Ummm.... What the hell?

McCarty sucker-punched Claudia during a 12 man brawl. Claudia knew what McCarty was coming over there for.

Hint: If you see Igor Larionov fighting Peter Forsberg you know hell has frozen over and you better run, especially if you see Darren McCarty foaming at the mouth and skating at you.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Doc, you need to get off of the result of the punch aspect of it. Who knew Moore's neck was going to break?

The fact is that s***loads of players have done what Bert has done.....i.e. thrown a sucker punch on an unsuspecting player.

The broken neck was a freak injury, resulting from that punch. To insinuate that Bertuzzi's situation is different because he "intended" or "knew" or "tried to specifically" break Moore's neck is ridiculous.

1. Yes, sucker punches happen all the time. But the Bertuzzi incident was so controversial because of what he did after.

2. The broken neck was not because of the punch.

3. You don't have to know that someone's neck is going to break to not slam someone's head into the ice with your entire weight on top of them. If you have any common sense you know there is going to be danger in that. Bottom line.

Esteef: Glad to see your true colors, and it's too bad that you think it is okay to have someone's career ended for a borderline body check. ******* despicable.