Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 dude seriously,the KHL is your league,bud Based on what? Your strawmen? The fact that I don't think Downey would have helped Detroit's scoring? Or made Datsyuk and Hossa play better? I think you guys seem to misunderstand and assume I'm some "I HATE ENFORCERS THEY ARE RUINING THE LEAGUE" fan. I like fighters, and I like tough hockey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Pretty sure Complacency and Hossa lost us the championship this year. I hope that's a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Based on what? Your strawmen? The fact that I don't think Downey would have helped Detroit's scoring? Or made Datsyuk and Hossa play better? I think you guys seem to misunderstand and assume I'm some "I HATE ENFORCERS THEY ARE RUINING THE LEAGUE" fan. I like fighters, and I like tough hockey. all im saying is we didnt have enough grit last year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) I hope that's a joke. 7.4 million dollars of what? What did Detroit get from Hossa in the playoffs? I hope THAT is a joke. Edited August 24, 2009 by Doc Holiday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Well technically players aren't paid for the playoffs. But jokes aside, though he definitely didn't help much in the finals, he definitely didn't lose the cup for us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Based on what? Your strawmen? The fact that I don't think Downey would have helped Detroit's scoring? Or made Datsyuk and Hossa play better? I think you guys seem to misunderstand and assume I'm some "I HATE ENFORCERS THEY ARE RUINING THE LEAGUE" fan. I like fighters, and I like tough hockey. Thats the problem with you toughness haters. You think the game is all about scoring. If they don't put up points they don't belong on the team. Momentum could've made them play better, I don't wanna start that old argument again but big hits and fights can swimg momentum. And don't pretend you like fighters and tough hockey, that was probably the 3rd best joke I heard today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Thats the problem with you toughness haters. You think the game is all about scoring. If they don't put up points they don't belong on the team. Momentum could've made them play better, I don't wanna start that old argument again but big hits and fights can swimg momentum. And don't pretend you like fighters and tough hockey, that was probably the 3rd best joke I heard today. What's more important, a fight vs a goal? How about a fight vs preventing a scoring chance? Guess what. Fights are great entertainment and sometimes might even teach the opponent a lesson. But offense and defense are FAR more important talents for a team to have. Fighting is not the same as toughness, and last year's Wings HAD toughness. I'll spear you in the testicles and we'll see how many games of competetive hockey you can get through if you don't agree with my assessment of last year's team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 What's more important, a fight vs a goal? How about a fight vs preventing a scoring chance? Guess what. Fights are great entertainment and sometimes might even teach the opponent a lesson. But offense and defense are FAR more important talents for a team to have. Fighting is not the same as toughness, and last year's Wings HAD toughness. I'll spear you in the testicles and we'll see how many games of competetive hockey you can get through if you don't agree with my assessment of last year's team. You don't have to preach to me man I guarantee I've played more hockey in my lifetime then you have and know a goal is more important. But what happens when your top lines get complacent like this years finals? A big hit or a fight could light a fire under their ass and make them start scoring again. How about when you have a gritty player that takes out an opposing teams top player with a big hit and all of a sudden their scoring is gone? Your chances just increased to win that game. I'm not asking for Detroit to play like Anaheim but a little grit and toughness wouldn't hurt them and I don't think anyone here can honestly say they think toughness and grit can really give the team a lower chance of winning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Fighting is not the same as toughness, and last year's Wings HAD toughness. I'll spear you in the testicles and we'll see how many games of competetive hockey you can get through if you don't agree with my assessment of last year's team. True, the Wings had toughness. However, the staunch enforcer crowd will probably argue that if the Wings had a guy on their bench with a reputation for fighting or intimidating then chances are lower that Sharp doesn't cheap shot Nick that way. The pro toughness crowd will then argue that cheap shots such as those occur regardless of who is on the bench as they reference such and such event in which Eric Godard was on the bench or such and such even in which name of enforcer goes here was on the bench. ...And I think this is where the stalemate is. Seriously, what point are we at in this debate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 True, the Wings had toughness. However, the staunch enforcer crowd will probably argue that if the Wings had a guy on their bench with a reputation for fighting or intimidating then chances are lower that Sharp doesn't cheap shot Nick that way. The pro toughness crowd will then argue that cheap shots such as those occur regardless of who is on the bench as they reference such and such event in which Eric Godard was on the bench or such and such even in which name of enforcer goes here was on the bench. ...And I think this is where the stalemate is. Seriously, what point are we at in this debate? The wings toughness last year wasn't the kind that swung momentum. I'll agree they were tough, no doubt about it. You were wrong in thinking I would argue an enforcer on the bench would stop that spear in the nuts but if there was one and that guy pounded the crap out of Sharp I bet he wouldn't do it again. Enforcers stop little s***heads like him from acting tough like that. But when our scoring dried up ad guys like Kopecky on the 4th line weren't picking up the slack a tough guy inserted in his position could've made a big hit or had a fight and swung the momentum and got us scoring again. (and by toughguy I mean someone willing and capable not a goon) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 You don't have to preach to me man I guarantee I've played more hockey in my lifetime then you have and know a goal is more important. But what happens when your top lines get complacent like this years finals? A big hit or a fight could light a fire under their ass and make them start scoring again. How about when you have a gritty player that takes out an opposing teams top player with a big hit and all of a sudden their scoring is gone? Your chances just increased to win that game. I'm not asking for Detroit to play like Anaheim but a little grit and toughness wouldn't hurt them and I don't think anyone here can honestly say they think toughness and grit can really give the team a lower chance of winning. You mean players like Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Kopecky, or Helm from last year's run who would lay the big hits? Or how about Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Helm, Bertuzzi, and hopefully Lilja on this year's roster? Nope, no Wings players doing any hitting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 But when our scoring dried up ad guys like Kopecky on the 4th line weren't picking up the slack a tough guy inserted in his position could've made a big hit or had a fight and swung the momentum and got us scoring again. Kopecky was one of the most willing hitters and biggest hitters on the team. He led the team in hits and he laid several significant hits throughout the season. He also had a couple fights and apparently you don't recall that his season was ended when he took a punch to the eye and his orbital bone was smashed. Who are you going to replace him with that is going to hit more or be a more willing fighter? How about replace his useless linemate instead. You know, Maltby. Maybe that would have made a difference. Maybe not. Who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 You mean players like Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Kopecky, or Helm from last year's run who would lay the big hits? Or how about Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Helm, Bertuzzi, and hopefully Lilja on this year's roster? Nope, no Wings players doing any hitting. Okay don't say Kopecky would make big hits. Thats what he was supposed to do but not what he did. Helm makes big hits, same with Stuart and Kronwall. Bertuzzi is a freight train but Ericcson and Lilja aren't really big hitters. They're tough and will fight actually but don't do alot of huge hits. Do we really want our number 3 and 4 defenseman out there being the ones running around for hits trying to swing momentum or we could put someone in the lineup who can hammer guys and hits to hurt. I'm not saying cheap but a guy who makes clean hits and hopes the opposition doesn't get up after. I want a true mean hockey player, guys like Stu and Kronner aren't really that mean. That 4th line roster spot that has someone useless at goal scoring in it anyways should have someone who can hit and fight in it? What can that hurt homestly if the other guy doesn't score or anything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 But if there was one and that guy pounded the crap out of Sharp I bet he wouldn't do it again. Enforcers stop little s***heads like him from acting tough like that. If Downey or any other typical 'enforcer' were on the ice with Patrick Sharp, chances are that they would get owned in all three zones. That's probably not a risk any of you would take during the playoffs in which too many games are decided by one goal. It's different though if you have a guy like Dallas Drake who had enough of a hockey sense to play a responsible game in both ends and wasn't shy about dishing out kamikaze hits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 If Downey or any other typical 'enforcer' were on the ice with Patrick Sharp, chances are that they would get owned in all three zones. That's probably not a risk any of you would take during the playoffs in which too many games are decided by one goal. Sure, cant argue that, but Kopecky was no improvement, so apples and oranges between him and Downs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Thats the problem with you toughness haters. You think the game is all about scoring. If they don't put up points they don't belong on the team. Momentum could've made them play better, I don't wanna start that old argument again but big hits and fights can swimg momentum. And don't pretend you like fighters and tough hockey, that was probably the 3rd best joke I heard today. Hurr ******* durr. I never said I didn't like toughness in hockey. Honestly don't be an idiot. Btw, what was Helm in the playoffs, chopped liver? You guys act like there were no energy guys on the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Yay. The endless enforcer/toughness/fighting argument. That's never happened in here before... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Thats the problem with you toughness haters. You think the game is all about scoring. If they don't put up points they don't belong on the team. Momentum could've made them play better, I don't wanna start that old argument again but big hits and fights can swimg momentum. And don't pretend you like fighters and tough hockey, that was probably the 3rd best joke I heard today. Amen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Yay. The endless enforcer/toughness/fighting argument. That's never happened in here before... One of LGW's mainstays, along with goalie threads and "________ is lazy and sucks!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 One of LGW's mainstays, along with goalie threads and "________ is lazy and sucks!" we can be talking about Detroit's schedule or something,and the nxt thing u know,we're arguing about the instigator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HOCKEY MATTERS 167 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Off topic, but...... the Wings lost the cup when they pulled Ablegator and put Drapes in. I love Drapes to pieces, but that move changed everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digitaljohn88 4 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Off topic, but...... the Wings lost the cup when they pulled Ablegator and put Drapes in. I love Drapes to pieces, but that move changed everything. Draper did score our only goal in game 6... but I do agree that we should have left Abdelkader in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lidstromboli Report post Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Off topic, but...... the Wings lost the cup when they pulled Ablegator and put Drapes in. I love Drapes to pieces, but that move changed everything. lazy defense, poor penalty killing, and a bunch of injuries didn't have much to do with losing though Edited August 24, 2009 by Lidstromboli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Hurr ******* durr. I never said I didn't like toughness in hockey. Honestly don't be an idiot. Btw, what was Helm in the playoffs, chopped liver? You guys act like there were no energy guys on the team. A Stanley cup defending team should have more then one energy player up front. Helm is my favourite player on the team after Cleary so no he isn't chopped liver. Having one guy who has barely any experience (not a knock on Helm just a point) should not be your only energy guy. They don't have to be fighters but bringing some meat and potatoes type player into our bottom lines can only improve our team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Draper did score our only goal in game 6... but I do agree that we should have left Abdelkader in. After scoring goals in both games 1 and 2, I think it was a mistake to pull him, even if it was in favor of a veteran forward in Draper. Edited August 24, 2009 by Hockeytown0001 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
