The Chris Osgood discussion thread

[Outsider 42]

I don't think I've ever heard/read Chris sound this insubordinate. Hopefully things are not as tense as this article makes them sound:

Osgood Impatient

Now....not for nothin', but I take exception to this particular Babcock quote:

"It's amazing how it works," Babcock said last week. "If Ozzie had a good night the other night in Chicago (3-0 loss), then he would have started (the next game) and we wouldn't be talking about this....."

You see, that wasn't exactly the case when Osgood had a "good night" against Nashville, stopping 33 of 35 shots for the Win. He SAT the next three Games while Howard got the Starts against the weaker Teams.

When he did get another Start, it was against Chicago, on the second night of b-2-b's for the Wings. He stopped 33 of 35 shots, and lost 0-3. Howard got the next Start against Chicago, on the second night of b-2-b for CHICAGO, and allowed the same number of goals, on fewer shots, and lost 0-3.

He's played both games since, and he'll Start the next game, too.

The following sounds VERY un-Ozzie-like:

"But if you don't play, it's impossible to get to that point. I'm a goalie, OK, and I've been playing for 20-some years since Juniors. What I say (about goaltending) is closer to the facts than what he (Babcock) would say."

I hope this doesn't get ugly. That is the very last thing this Team needs right now.

I hate to say it, but Christopher has a point. He's NOT playing badly. He's facing tougher competition. And, (as he states in the article), he has proven that he's capable of playing. He just has to play.

[Miller Brew 0]

It's hard to take anything from visual text on the internet. If there was a video you could at least read body language or listen to their voices. I do understand Osgood's bad game against Chicago; I knew on at least two of those goals was a direct result of not playing enough games -- Ozzie was solid as a mofo in the 3rd.

However on the flip side, in this dyer time of scraping wins due to injuries, you can't take out the hot goalie so a cold goalie can warm up. Osgood should understand this. It's not a matter of "seniority" but a matter of winning.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Howard is playing better than Osgood, period. Mr. Brew sums it up perfectly.

As for facing the "weaker competition", Howard should have a good test tomorrow.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[Nev 1,085]

To be fair, he does admit himself that Howard has been playing better than him and with our aenemic offense at the minute, Howard's great play - as opposed to Ozzies "ok" play gives us the best chance to win every night.

I do have sympathy for Ozzie in that since he got the flu a few months ago he hasn't had a chance to get some games under his belt and find some real form. But calling Babcock out in the media is never going to work out well.

[Miller Brew 0]

After reading the complete article, it sounds like Babcock is making subtle pokes to rev Ozzie up. We all know a revved up Ozzie is the Osgood you want in net. He always plays better when he has something to prove. Kudos to Babcock, he ain't no dummy.

I see this as friendly competition and superb coaching, nothing more.

[Z and D for the C 712]

But I think after the Olympic break Osgood will start getting the large majority of starts to gear up for the playoffs, unless it really looks like we're going to really, really battle for the playoffs and Howard is still out-shining Osgood.

[Outsider 42]

It's hard to take anything from visual text on the internet. If there was a video you could at least read body language or listen to their voices. I do understand Osgood's bad game against Chicago; I knew on at least two of those goals was a direct result of not playing enough games -- Ozzie was solid as a mofo in the 3rd.

However on the flip side, in this dyer time of scraping wins due to injuries, you can't take out the hot goalie so a cold goalie can warm up. Osgood should understand this. It's not a matter of "seniority" but a matter of winning.

With all due respect, Miller:

When push comes to shove, and you need "clutch", there are very few goaltenders in this League who know what it takes to Win better than Chris Osgood.

The guy has built a career on it. He's never been the best Regular Season goaltender while with the Wings. He's never had to be. But he's been money in the Post Season.

Take a look at his performances with terrible Teams on LI and in St. Louis. When push came to shove, for both of those Teams, Osgood picked them up and dragged them into the Play Offs, despite having to overcome an otherwise completely crappy Regular Season in 2002-2003 for the Islanders. His only full Season in St. Louis, (2003-2004), the Blues were the lowest scoring Team to make the Play Offs that year, and they lost MacInnis three Games into the Season, and lost Jackman for a good chunk of time six Games into the Season with a separated shoulder. They sucked on Offense, AND Defense. He played 67 Games, (because both Johnson and Divis were terrible), and nearly single-handedly pulled them into the Post Season.

Oz knows whereof he speaks. If the Team "needs" him, he will be there.

That's what he does. It's what he's always done. Again, it's what he's built a career on.

[Outsider 42]

After reading the complete article, it sounds like Babcock is making subtle pokes to rev Ozzie up. We all know a revved up Ozzie is the Osgood you want in net. He always plays better when he has something to prove. Kudos to Babcock, he ain't no dummy.

I see this as friendly competition and superb coaching, nothing more.

Oddly enough, I agree with the first paragraph you posted.

I stated it last Season about Conklin, and earlier this Season about Howard. I was lambasted for it on both occasions as an "Osgood slappy". (Which is not necessarily untrue, but doesn't make my take on things wrong, either.)

Last year Conklin was used as a "stick" to poke Ozzie. This year? Howard is being used similarly.

I hope it works.

And I hope it doesn't have a detrimental effect on Howard. Conklin is a journeyman, career back-up. The Wings are hoping that Howard will be something more.

On the other hand....I haven't heard Ozzie make comments such as those in the article since....well......

Since he was coached by Bowman.

[Outsider 42]

Howard is playing better than Osgood, period. Mr. Brew sums it up perfectly.

As for facing the "weaker competition", Howard should have a good test tomorrow.

Once again, Z&D.....

A "good test" against a Team coming in on the second night of back-to-back games.

[Miller Brew 0]

I'm not saying Osgood isn't a good goalie... but he did have some bad games this season. The point is Howard is the hot hand and you can't stop playing the hot hand because a veteran wants a turn to play, especially when Wings need to scrape every win they can.

Like I said above, Babcock is cleary trying to rev Osgood up... and it's working. That's the goalie you want in net. So when Osgood does get his next chance, which will be on this road trip, I am confident he'll play lights out. After all, he has something to prove.

I do remember Holland and/or Babcock stating on record that Howard gets to play as long as he's winning. Granted he lost the last game, he allowed one goal when his team in front of him couldn't close the deal in regulation. So unless Osgood can play forward position and score goals, there is really no point in playing him 'right now'.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Once again, Z&D.....

A "good test" against a Team coming in on the second night of back-to-back games.

Well, didn't know that...but either way I think you're nitpicking.

[Outsider 42]

I do remember Holland and/or Babcock stating on record that Howard gets to play as long as he's winning. Granted he lost the last game, he allowed one goal when his team in front of him couldn't close the deal in regulation. So unless Osgood can play forward position and score goals, there is really no point in playing him 'right now'.

Actually, Miller....

Howard has lost 3 of his last 5, and 5 of his last 10 Starts. And against some of the weakest Teams in the League - Teams like Edmonton, and St. Louis, and Columbus.

Similarly, the Wins he's put up have also been against some of the worst Teams in the League - Teams like the Rangers, the Duckies, Tampa Bay, and the Jackets. The only really decent Team he's faced and posted a Win against was Phoenix.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

howard wasn't the one losing most of those games

[TheOwl 77]

Osgood hasn't been great, Howard's been good, simple as that.

[Outsider 42]

Osgood hasn't been great, Howard's been good, simple as that.

And I guess that's what it comes down to, really.

From Howard, "good" is acceptable. From Osgood, Babcock wants, and expects, "great". He'll get it.

But he won't get it from the bench. That's a guarantee.

pokepokejabjab

[Outsider 42]

howard wasn't the one losing most of those games

Well, he was downright bad against Edmonton. He was pretty bad against Dallas. And he didn't exactly shine against Chicago, either.

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm not saying Osgood isn't a good goalie... but he did have some bad games this season. The point is Howard is the hot hand and you can't stop playing the hot hand because a veteran wants a turn to play, especially when Wings need to scrape every win they can.

Like I said above, Babcock is cleary trying to rev Osgood up... and it's working. That's the goalie you want in net. So when Osgood does get his next chance, which will be on this road trip, I am confident he'll play lights out. After all, he has something to prove.

I do remember Holland and/or Babcock stating on record that Howard gets to play as long as he's winning. Granted he lost the last game, he allowed one goal when his team in front of him couldn't close the deal in regulation. So unless Osgood can play forward position and score goals, there is really no point in playing him 'right now'.

Howard has also had some bad games.

Osgood generally speaking has played well this year, especially considering the fact that when he was getting the majority of the starts, the team in front of him was as bad a team as we've seen in awhile. October was ugly as hell and even in games we lost, Osgood played great. Too many people forget how strong he was in some of the early losses where the defense was utterly non-existent.

I'll tell you, at first I didn't like this for Howard. I thought all these starts could lead to issues for him down the line, and I still believe that potential exists. But I figured Osgood would be fine. But at this point, it appears that is not the case.

And you know, I don't blame him at all.

He has not played bad this year. There is absolutely NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER to his play last year during the regular season. Go look up his starts game by game and compare them. There's NO COMPARISON. Sure, Howard's been playing real well, but he is the rookie and Osgood is coming off his second Conn Smythe-caliber post-season and so far as this season has gone, Osgood has done absolutely nothing to warrant being relegated to backup goalie.

Once again, I've gotta say that I think Babcock's a great coach, but his number one weakness year after year is goalie management. You'd think by now he'd have learned a thing or two more than it seems he has, but his foresight on goaltending matters is profoundly lacking. He's also quite inconsistent with the situation this year as Osgood has come back and had solid games and despite that, Howard has gotten the next 3, 4 or 5 starts.

I can't sit here and disagree with Osgood. He's right. He hasn't played bad, but he's not getting any chance at all to get anything going. Last year Osgood had something to prove because he knew he had a terrible regular season. He had that fire. This year, when he's played fairly well for the most part, it's gotta be nothing short of tremendously frustrating to be getting even fewer chances than last year.

I don't want a goalie with that kind of frustration leading the charge heading into the playoffs.

And you've got to be totally insane to think it's a smart idea to go to Howard no matter how well he plays down the stretch.

I don't like where this is headed for either goalie right now. Babcock needs to restore some balance. That's the bottom line. Osgood doesn't need to be frustrated and Howard doesn't need the opportunity to fall into a slump in his rookie season.

Balance.

[Yellowknife Redwing 57]

At some point the onus is on Osgood to elevate his game the same way he let things get out of hand. When the backup goalie is 11th in SV% and 8th in GAA and the starter can't be relied upon to give 60 minutes without allowing a terrible goal, the choice is an absolute no-brainer. I'm glad he's pissed off and I hope it motivates him to play like we know he can. One bad goal can be the difference between 2 points and zero with the current state of the team and Howard's play is the only reason this team isn't completely in the basement of the West yet.

Osgood is my favorite goalie of all time and I wish nothing but the best for him, but "clutch in the playoffs" isn't going to cut it this year with the injuries we have. Everyone has to be at the top of their game for the Wings to win right now, and this holds doubly true for the goaltenders while we deal with injuries because we're currently 27th in the league in goals per game.

[gcom007 1,465]

And I guess that's what it comes down to, really.

From Howard, "good" is acceptable. From Osgood, Babcock wants, and expects, "great". He'll get it.

But he won't get it from the bench. That's a guarantee.

pokepokejabjab

I think Howard's been playing a bit better than just "good" lately, but it doesn't change the fact that Osgood is this teams starting goaltender when it matters most and he is getting no opportunities lately to get his game going. I think the most troubling thing is that Osgood nailed the whole "Osgood just needs to be working hard in practice..." Osgood's right. He's on the verge of 400 wins and has been a part of 3 Stanley Cup teams, 2 as the starter. He's proven enough.

Howard is the one who needs to be working hard in practice and ironing out the weak areas of his game so he doesn't wind up as just another flash in the pan. I'm not knocking him in saying that either. If he wants to have a career, he can afford to spend more time watching and practicing this season and next and learning from one of the most successful goalies in history firsthand.

But what is he learning from Osgood when Osgood is the one stuck watching from the bench the majority of the time.

Stupid. I don't like it one bit! Can't say it enough.

Everyone's loving Howard now, but he's just being set up to be crucified when he slips into slump mode which will happen sooner or later this year. It's not fair to him that he should have to deal with that in his rookie year.

Balance.

[gcom007 1,465]

At some point the onus is on Osgood to elevate his game the same way he let things get out of hand. When the backup goalie is 11th in SV% and 8th in GAA and the starter can't be relied upon to give 60 minutes without allowing a terrible goal, the choice is an absolute no-brainer. I'm glad he's pissed off and I hope it motivates him to play like we know he can. One bad goal can be the difference between 2 points and zero with the current state of the team and Howard's play is the only reason this team isn't completely in the basement of the West yet.

Osgood is my favorite goalie of all time and I wish nothing but the best for him, but "clutch in the playoffs" isn't going to cut it this year with the injuries we have. Everyone has to be at the top of their game for the Wings to win right now, and this holds doubly true for the goaltenders while we deal with injuries because we're currently 27th in the league in goals per game.

Howard's been letting in more and more weak goals lately too. Again, I'm not saying that to knock, I'm just saying, this isn't as one-sided as so many think. And when you let Osgood get frustrated on the bench, all the while getting cold and struggling to find a rhythm, and then put him in a game and have him play well only to be sent back to the bench for 4-5 games (it's happened at least a couple times lately)...

Well, then it really should be no surprise that he'd struggle a bit against a team like Chicago. But Osgood struggles and comes back and tends to have a killer "next game." But he hasn't had a "next game" in far, far too long, despite deserving one on multiple occasions.

That's not on Howard's great play, nor on Osgood's supposed "weak" play. That's Mike Babcock making some stupid decisions.

[gcom007 1,465]

Take a look at the starts this season. Pay attention to November 7 against the Leafs. That was the beginning of Jimmy Howard starting. The three previous games Osgood played great, posting a shutout. I know we all likely blocked the Toronto game from our heads, but if we can bring it back, we'll likely recall that the game wasn't Osgood's loss. It may have just been one of the worst games the team played all year. It was Lebda's worst game for sure, which as we all know, can be dreadful. Basically, that game wasn't on Osgood as even CBC lamented repeatedly, but he's gotten the boot since.

Also, pay mind to the October 27 game against Vancouver. He gets pulled right away after allowing 2 goals on 4 shots. s***ty any way it goes, crap defense or not. But how does he respond? A shutout between two .950+sv% games. Amazing what happens when you give the guy a chance. Too bad they let the Toronto disaster which Osgood really had no hand in shift the course of things. No surprise really that Osgood is frustrated.

Pay close attention to the second stat colum which is goals against. Aside from that Toronto game, he's not getting blown out anywhere recently. If he had been given a game to get ready for Chicago, I think we would've won that game on the strength of his goaltending. He still posted a .914 that game despite a couple soft goals. But again, he's not playing! He's not getting the chance to get into a groove and then they stick him in against one of the most potent teams in the league with a battered team in front of him. And Babcock really has the audacity to call him out over it? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

And again, some people gotta get serious about the level of difficulty in the teams Howard's facing compared to Osgood. Osgood's getting the tougher teams for the most part as is blatantly illustrated, but he's got to face them going a week or more between starts. Come on people...

Compare these numbers to Osgood's 2008/09 numbers: http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id...mp;view=gamelog

Again, NO COMPARISON!

I really am not trying to take anything away from Howard as he's had a real solid season so far, but it's still no reason to continually leave Osgood hanging on the bench. I don't care how cool Osgood is mentally, the guy is obviously frazzled, and rightfully so. As has been said, I don't recall a time where he's ever seemed this pissed off about a situation. It stands to reason then that it's a justified frustration. The guy is not one to run his mouth or cause drama.

BALANCE!

2009/10:

Osgood's Starts:

Dec 20 '09 DET @ CHI L 3 35 32 .914 0 0 60:00 2 1 0 0

Dec 12 '09 DET @ NSH W 2 35 33 .943 0 0 60:15 1 1 0 0

Dec 05 '09 DET @ NJD O 3 26 23 .885 0 0 65:00 3 0 0 0

Nov 27 '09 CGY @ DET L 3 17 14 .824 0 0 60:00 3 0 0 0

Nov 23 '09 DET @ NSH L 3 25 22 .880 0 0 58:39 1 2 0 0

Nov 20 '09 FLA @ DET O 2 20 18 .900 0 0 60:38 2 0 0 0

Nov 07 '09 DET @ TOR L 5 28 23 .821 0 0 59:56 4 1 0 0

Nov 05 '09 SJS @ DET W 1 34 33 .971 0 0 65:00 1 0 0 0

Nov 03 '09 BOS @ DET W 0 29 29 1.000 1 0 60:00 0 0 0 0

Oct 31 '09 DET @ CGY W 1 21 20 .952 0 0 59:28 1 0 0 0

Oct 27 '09 DET @ VAN 2 4 2 .500 0 0 7:05 2 0 0 0

Oct 22 '09 DET @ PHX O 3 33 30 .909 0 0 61:39 2 1 0 0

Oct 17 '09 COL @ DET O 3 29 26 .897 0 0 64:54 3 0 0 0

Oct 15 '09 LAK @ DET W 2 26 24 .923 0 0 60:00 2 0 0 0

Oct 13 '09 DET @ BUF L 5 22 17 .773 0 0 32:46 4 1 0 0

Oct 10 '09 WSH @ DET W 2 24 22 .917 0 0 59:56 1 1 0 0

Oct 08 '09 CHI @ DET W 2 34 32 .941 0 0 59:56 1 1 0 0

Oct 02 '09 STL @ DET L 4 23 19 .826 0 0 59:07 3 1 0 0

Regular Season 18 7 6 4 46 465 419 .901 2.72 1 0 1,014

Howard's Starts:

Dec 28 '09 DET @ CBJ O 1 40 39 .975 0 0 63:12 1 0 0 0

Dec 26 '09 CBJ @ DET W 1 29 28 .966 0 0 59:54 1 0 0 0

Dec 23 '09 CHI @ DET L 3 31 28 .903 0 0 59:58 2 1 0 0

Dec 19 '09 DET @ DAL L 4 21 17 .810 0 0 59:33 4 0 0 0

Dec 17 '09 TBL @ DET W 0 30 30 1.000 1 0 60:00 0 0 0 0

Dec 14 '09 PHX @ DET W 2 32 30 .938 0 0 59:55 2 0 0 0

Dec 11 '09 ANA @ DET W 2 27 25 .926 0 0 60:44 2 0 0 0

Dec 09 '09 STL @ DET L 1 26 25 .962 0 0 59:29 1 0 0 0

Dec 06 '09 DET @ NYR W 1 29 28 .966 0 0 60:00 1 0 0 0

Dec 03 '09 EDM @ DET L 4 36 32 .889 0 0 60:00 4 0 0 0

Nov 30 '09 DAL @ DET W 1 30 29 .967 0 0 60:00 1 0 0 0

Nov 28 '09 DET @ STL W 3 35 32 .914 0 0 64:35 3 0 0 0

Nov 25 '09 ATL @ DET L 2 25 23 .920 0 0 58:26 1 1 0 0

Nov 21 '09 DET @ MTL W 2 18 16 .889 0 0 64:57 2 0 0 0

Nov 18 '09 DAL @ DET L 3 32 29 .906 0 0 58:45 1 2 0 0

Nov 14 '09 ANA @ DET W 4 23 19 .826 0 0 60:00 2 2 0 0

Nov 12 '09 VAN @ DET W 1 32 31 .969 0 0 60:00 0 1 0 0

Nov 11 '09 DET @ CBJ W 1 26 25 .962 0 0 60:00 1 0 0 0

Oct 29 '09 DET @ EDM O 5 33 28 .848 0 0 65:00 3 2 0 0

Oct 27 '09 DET @ VAN W 2 22 20 .909 0 0 52:50 0 2 0 0

Oct 24 '09 DET @ COL L 2 22 20 .909 0 0 59:21 2 0 0 1

Oct 13 '09 DET @ BUF 1 15 14 .933 0 0 27:14 1 0 0 0

Oct 03 '09 DET @ STL L 5 32 27 .844 0 0 58:22 2 3 0 0

Regular Season 23 12 8 2 51 646 595 .921 2.26 1 0 1,352

[Guest mindfly]

Osgood needs to show some god damn interest, if he is lazy and doesn't show up then he will never play, babcock see this very clearly...

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Hopefully it's Babcock trying to rev up Osgood and he's responding. The last thing the Wings need are sour players in addition to injuried players.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Howard's been playing good enough, or not bad enough, to warrant him getting taken out in the short term.

Pretty simple to figure out.

[ltgator333 3]

Howard's been playing good enough, or not bad enough, to warrant him getting taken out in the short term.

Pretty simple to figure out.

I agree, we've seen this before. And if Ozzy didn't play in the playoffs, the team would've been better off with him. This year may be an exception provided Howard continues to play like this. The guy seems like a goaltender on a mission. Ozzy, for better or worse needs to realize at 37 it's time to play the role of pappa bear a little.

That said, I had a dream last night he was traded to a cup contender. Then I get up have some coffee and read this. wow..