Defense Debate

[King Crane 289]

So my friend and I have had this on going argument about who is a better defenseman: Kronwall or Ericsson.

What do you, the LGW community think?

Kronwall:

Personally I think kronwall is better. Defensively he is a powerful heavy hitter who plays a more aggressive/offensive defense, which really shows during special teams (PP and PK). He's consistent on both ends of the ice, taking shots and getting off passes quickly.

My friend thinks he's a hot-head who's "always out of his zone and tries to hit too much" and is not consistent. He sacrifices his position to make the highlight reel. Also, his shots are not as precise as Ericsson's.

Ericsson:

My friend thinks Ericsson has better stick handling, passing, and is "smarter" (doesn't get out of position to hit, but can hit hard).

I think he's on his ass half the time and doesn't do as good of a job as Kronwall when picking up on the other team. Also, Ericsson is often too conservative in his playing style. Not that conservative play is bad, but he needs to capitalize on more plays.

Stats:

(Stats are really difficult to go by b/c ericsson is younger and also played less games as a rookie, so I'm posting the broad +/- numbers, which are a broader judgement of skill)

Kronwall has never had a +/- below zero (first 2 years: +5 and +11, with a career high of +25) . Ericsson has never had a positive +/- (first 2 years: -1, -3 and currently has a -7)

Edited January 10, 2010 by ZMAN

[Turkey 0]

Personally, I don't think the comparison is even fair. Kronwall has had years more development and has been a defenseman for his entire professional career. E was a foraward until coming across the pond. At this point, Kronwall wins hands down but, as I said, this is apples and oranges. Give E another few years and we'll see then. I'd like to see him play the body more and unleash his shot more.

[Miller Brew 0]

You HATE Ericsson and your friend HATES Kronwall? What kind of fans are you?

Kronwall is the better defenseman RIGHT NOW, but Ericsson has all the tools to be as good or better than Kronwall as he learns the NHL. Remember, Ericsson was a forward when Wings drafted him and was then developed into a defenseman.

Nill, Holland, Babcock and even Ken Hitchcock are very high on Ericsson.

"We have a kid named Ericsson, and I can't believe we don't dress him. I think he's going to be a stud in the league." — Mike Babcock

"I think he has a chance to have a real impact in the league. He's a bona fide NHL defenseman ... He's going to be here for 15 years." — Babcock

"He reminds me of (Vladimir) Malakhov, the way he plays and the way he skates. He has all of the body language of Vladdie with just his mobility and his ability to be calm with the puck." — Ken Hitchcock

"Thank goodness we have him. He's a big body, he can skate well, looks like Chris Pronger, he's a good passer. He doesn't cross-check and do that stuff but does the rest." — Babcock

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/ericsson.php

[Guest Lidstromboli]

My friend thinks he's a hot-head who's "always out of his zone and tries to hit too much" and is not consistent. He sacrifices his position to make the highlight reel.

apparently your friend hasn't watched kronwall in a couple years

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Personally, I don't think the comparison is even fair. Kronwall has had years more development and has been a defenseman for his entire professional career. E was a foraward until coming across the pond. At this point, Kronwall wins hands down but, as I said, this is apples and oranges. Give E another few years and we'll see then. I'd like to see him play the body more and unleash his shot more.

Agreed. Right now it's not an apples to apples comparison. Kronner is much better than Ericsson.

But that's comparing a guy with 80 games under his belt to one with 330+. Ericsson was basically playing his rookie season and going through growing pains as he expanded his role. Being injured isn't gonna help any.

But for a converted forward in his first season, I think he shows a lot of promise. I think Ericsson was getting better at getting his shot off. He's got a cannon but I think he found out it was too long of a windup at the NHL level. He shortened that up and was getting it through. I also agree that Ericsson needs use his size more and play with more of an edge.

If he turns out to be as good as Kronwall, it will be yet another huge find by the Wing's scouts.

[dat's sick 1,002]

unfortunately b/c of his injury, will end he year with a -7

Isn't Ericsson supposed to return in like 2 weeks?

Anyway I agree with Miller Brew, Kronwall is better at the moment but Ericsson has potential to be atleast as good.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Both great. End of thread.

[Esquire 324]

You HATE Ericsson and your friend HATES Kronwall? What kind of fans are you?

They're involved fans with an opinion.

[Zetts 236]

It's crazy to suggest that Ericsson is even vaguely close to Kronwall's level. If you mean in the future, will Ericsson develop to that level, then that's more of a debate.

Right now it's no contest though. It's not even a fair debate either as has been mentioned. Kronwall has had much more time to develop.

Also, I disagree that Ericsson hits hard...or much at all. Maybe he could with his size, but I sure haven't seen any. That's not a knock, it's just his style.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Zetts

[King Crane 289]

You HATE Ericsson and your friend HATES Kronwall? What kind of fans are you?

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/ericsson.php

Well maybe "hate" is too strong of a word, sorry

Isn't Ericsson supposed to return in like 2 weeks?

You're right. Huh. i know they initially dismissed him to be out indefinitely, but yah, he'll be back in a about 2 weeks according to the most recent report.

[Travis 576]

[King Crane 289]

'nough said

[Mckinley25 679]

'nough said

That pic is great, makes it look like he punched him.

[hooon 1,089]

Kronwall without question. Ericcson definitely has the potential to be good, but he's not having a great season so far, while Kronwall was one of our best players when he went down. I see Kronwall as becoming one of the better defensemen in the league in a few years, after a few the of the older elites retire.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So my friend and I have had this on going argument about who is a better defenseman: Kronwall or Ericsson.

What do you, the LGW community think?

Kronwall:

Personally I think kronwall is better. Defensively he is a powerful heavy hitter who plays a more aggressive/offensive defense, which really shows during special teams (PP and PK). He's consistent on both ends of the ice, taking shots and getting off passes quickly.

My friend thinks he's a hot-head who's "always out of his zone and tries to hit too much" and is not consistent. He sacrifices his position to make the highlight reel. Also, his shots are not as precise as Ericsson's.

Ericsson:

My friend thinks Ericsson has better stick handling, passing, and is "smarter" (doesn't get out of position to hit, but can hit hard).

I think he's on his ass half the time and doesn't do as good of a job as Kronwall when picking up on the other team. Also, Ericsson is often too conservative in his playing style. Not that conservative play is bad, but he needs to capitalize on more plays.

Stats:

(Stats are really difficult to go by b/c ericsson is younger and also played less games as a rookie, so I'm posting the broad +/- numbers, which are a broader judgement of skill)

Kronwall has never had a +/- below zero (first 2 years: +5 and +11, with a career high of +25) . Ericsson has never had a positive +/- (first 2 years: -1, -3 and currently has a -7)

As far as +/- goes-- look at the teams Kronwall was a rookie on. He started playing on the best defensive team in the NHL. This year the Wings were one of the worst defensive teams and only recently started to pull those numbers back into respectable range. Moreover, this year's team is the lowest scoring Wings team in more than a decade-- that has a huge effect on the +/-. In Kronwall's first NHL season he was a 0 +/- on an elite defensive team that was one of the highest scoring teams in the league. Kronwall entered the league with scouting reports that indicated he struggled defensively, with Ericsson's reports reading just the opposite. There was no way in hell Babcock would've put Kronwall on the PP early in his career. In fact, Kronwall was a bit of a whipping boy on LGW because of his poor defensive play early in his career. Ericsson's averaging a single turnover a game (see Rafalski, Lidstrom, Stuart and Kronwall's averages for comparison's sake) and people act like he's a defensive liability out there instead of just having some growing pains.

Before Ericsson was injured he was on pace to kick the ass of Kronwall's rookie numbers. Now? Well I doubt he'll be able to put up an impressive total given how much time he's lost. The lack of PP opportunities is also a big factor.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Agreed. Right now it's not an apples to apples comparison. Kronner is much better than Ericsson.

But that's comparing a guy with 80 games under his belt to one with 330+. Ericsson was basically playing his rookie season and going through growing pains as he expanded his role. Being injured isn't gonna help any.

But for a converted forward in his first season, I think he shows a lot of promise. I think Ericsson was getting better at getting his shot off. He's got a cannon but I think he found out it was too long of a windup at the NHL level. He shortened that up and was getting it through. I also agree that Ericsson needs use his size more and play with more of an edge.

If he turns out to be as good as Kronwall, it will be yet another huge find by the Wing's scouts.

This.

[RedFX 48]

It's not really a fair debate right now. Kronwall has had more experience and therefore is far more polished all the way around. However Ericsson has shown he has all the tools he needs to develop into a solid two-way defenseman. I think a few years down the road they both can be some of the NHL's best

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

ROFL ericsson cant even hold kronwall's jock strap

[titanium2 867]

I prefer to imagine that one day these two will be one of the best dmen pairs in the league.

[blankrap 9]

I prefer to imagine that one day these two will be one of the best dmen pairs in the league.

this = secksee

[Doggy 130]

That's not a debate. It's like asking who's better of Semin or Fleischmann.

[Guest mindfly]

Absurd debate in which we all know the obvious answer already, it's plain ridiculous to compare the two, Ericsson is lightyears away from kronwalls ability

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Whoever stays the healthiest.

[King Crane 289]

Absurd debate in which we all know the obvious answer already, it's plain ridiculous to compare the two, Ericsson is lightyears away from kronwalls ability

That's what I've been saying. Although I can see the arguement that Ericsson will or can be great in the future, Kronwall is better. My friend believes, with evidence, that Kronwall is a poor defender. This is why I've posted this topic. It's kinda interesting how most people take my side on this forum. I actually wanted, in a kinda backwards way, more arguements that Kronwall is a bad player.

[egroen 384]

That's what I've been saying. Although I can see the arguement that Ericsson will or can be great in the future, Kronwall is better. My friend believes, with evidence, that Kronwall is a poor defender. This is why I've posted this topic. It's kinda interesting how most people take my side on this forum. I actually wanted, in a kinda backwards way, more arguements that Kronwall is a bad player.

Kronwall is really underrated -- he would be a #1 D star on a lot of other teams. 52 pts last year on the 2nd defensive pairing, definitely better offensively than defensively right now, but consider: he had one less point than Campbell last year for half the salary -- and unlike Campbell, Kronwall plays in all situations. If Kronwall hit free agency he would be fielding offers of $6m+ right now.