Should Valtteri Filppula be traded?

[Guest DatsyukianDeke13]

Glad I could make you happy. In all seriousness, I was trying to lighten things up by using your trademark line there.

That's why I was laughing hahah. I remember The Office was on and Andy said that so it seemed appropriate given what was going on. I move that no more Filppula threads be made on this board...

[Z and D for the C 712]

First off, your fuzzy math at the top makes absolutely no sense. I agree that point totals are a good way to project things, but they aren't a guarantee. And until Flip does it over the course of a season, I don't think he can.

You completely ignore my point--Cleary does more than dye his tips and play good d. What Sarah Palin says about Rush Limbaugh is nonsense, as is 90% of your responses to me. Any point I make is "obviously" a Filppula dig. Not true, but you want so bad for me to hate him, you make it so.

I don't pull names of of my ass like you pull stupid projections and promises out of yours. Let's just call it a truce and you can continue to love Filppula and (in your mind) I can continue to "hate" him on the basis of the fact that I could stand to see him traded.

I'll give Filppula credit......when he does something. Nice goal in the finals, good d, and way to blow a prime scoring chance in two crucial games (at Pitt, vs. SJ).

Finally, dips***, I keep bringing up the names of other players as a point of comparison. A player's potential is no guarantee of his success. Filppula, until he DOES IT, is a 4th year player who has topped out at 40 points. You can't argue that. However, my goal is to give you examples--Anders Eriksson, most recently--of players who had high potential but leveled off and never did much more. Do you think Chicago would've traded Chelios for Eriksson in 2000? 2001? Probably not, because most had soured on him and realized he was not a #1 defenseman in training--he was a #5, at best, #7, usually.

Didn't you knock me for insulting you in a previous thread? But now you're calling me a dips*** and a goddamn moron? Tell me, is it hard to be hypocritical?

I don't know what "dye his tips" means. What does Cleary do that Filppula doesn't? Okay, Cleary gets a few more goals but Filppula is still clearly the better offensive player. If you don't understand I'd be more than happy to enumerate the reasons. Even past offensive contributions Filppula is faster, better back checker, better passer, takes faceoffs, pretty much better in every single aspect of the game. Yet Cleary is a deal and filppula is over paid.

You pull names out of your ass, it's all you do. You even did it again in this post. For every player who hasn't met expectations, I guarantee I could find 2 who met or exceeded their expectations. It seems like you've been getting tips from fox news (I'm not sure why I keep getting political here). Your "comparisons" are irrelevant and meaningless.

I don't think you hate Filppula because you could stand for him to be traded. I don't need to restate the previous things, but what sealed it now is this cleary thing. You thinking Cleary is a deal and Filppula is overpaid really says all that needs to be said.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[RedWingAbner 13]

That's why I was laughing hahah. I remember The Office was on and Andy said that so it seemed appropriate given what was going on. I move that no more Filppula threads be made on this board...

I second the motion. I think everyone knows where everyone stands on the issue. Some people want him decapitated, some want him enshrined (dramatization).

It's interesting that you mention The Office; I wrote an unsolicited episode of that show that is is pre-production. If they air "Religious Awareness Day," that's the one.

[Guest DatsyukianDeke13]

I second the motion. I think everyone knows where everyone stands on the issue. Some people want him decapitated, some want him enshrined (dramatization).

It's interesting that you mention The Office; I wrote an unsolicited episode of that show that is is pre-production. If they air "Religious Awareness Day," that's the one.

Really? That's awesome. I haven't been keeping up with the newest season, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

for the record, next time there is a Fil related thread, I'm staying away lol

[RedWingAbner 13]

Didn't you knock me for insulting you in a previous thread? But now you're calling me a dips*** and a goddamn moron? Tell me, is it hard to be hypocritical?

I don't know what "dye his tips" means. What does Cleary do that Filppula doesn't? Okay, Cleary gets a few more goals but Filppula is still clearly the better offensive player. If you don't understand I'd be more than happy to enumerate the reasons. Even past offensive contributions Filppula is faster, better fore checker, better passer, takes faceoffs, pretty much better in every single aspect of the game. Yet Cleary is a deal and filppula is over paid.

You pull names out of your ass, it's all you do. You even did it again in this post. For every player who hasn't met expectations, I guarantee I could find 2 who met or exceeded their expectations. It seems like you've been getting tips from fox news (I'm not sure why I keep getting political here). Your "comparisons" are irrelevant and meaningless.

I don't think you hate Filppula because you could stand for him to be traded. I don't need to restate the previous things, but what sealed it now is this cleary thing. You thinking Cleary is a deal and Filppula is overpaid really says all that needs to be said.

Ok, I am going to give this a shot, because things seem to be calming down here.

It's not pulling names out of my ass when I am making a point about the difficulty of gauging potential. I've admitted that I could be wrong and Filppula could do amazing things and that I would really love that.

Yes, in another thread, I did take offense at namecalling. But then we picked it up again here, and I figured we were shooting the s***, and I just went with it.

I know you don't like Fox News. Neither do I. Common ground.

Now, I don't want to have this thread get hijacked, but the point I made about Cleary is solid. There are players who make $3M as a scrappy, in your face guy; there are guys who get $3M as a physical defenseman. I think Cleary is a solid deal because he combines scrappy play and decent touch. Nothing special. I think he's a better forechecker than Flip and a better "netfront" guy. Could I see the Wings trading him (Cleary)? Yeah. Would I get upset? No, depending on what came back. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Cleary to be sent out, and I am not making that case.

I think we agree on a basic point. As a 3rd line center, Flip makes too much? Perhaps I am reading too much into your earlier comments about dealing him somewhere else so he can play on the 2nd line.

In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

[RedWingAbner 13]

Really? That's awesome. I haven't been keeping up with the newest season, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

for the record, next time there is a Fil related thread, I'm staying away lol

Yeah, he's just to polarizing. It was easier when we had a crap team that we could lash universally. Ah, Tim Cheveldae, where for art thou?

[Z and D for the C 712]

I think we agree on a basic point. As a 3rd line center, Flip makes too much? Perhaps I am reading too much into your earlier comments about dealing him somewhere else so he can play on the 2nd line.

Filppula deserves to play on a second line. If someone told me Filppula would never play on the second line when we're healthy, as much as I would miss watching him I say trade him as it's better for him.

That said, I don't think Filppula will be delegated to the third line forever. I think splitting up Zetterberg and Datsyuk will result in less offense than keeping them together. Just like in each of the last 2 seasons, I think in our last game played, Filppula will be on the second line with Datsyuk and Zetterberg together.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

to answer this thread... no.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

This guy I just replied to, wings7, lilja4mvp. I can't think of anyone else.

Edit: It was probably GMR just to piss me off.

That's not fair. I voted with the majority.

Nobody really cares about Flip except for you and the Finnish posters.

[8 Legged RedWing 367]

i saw flip at meijer so he officially stays on the team...

[titanium2 867]

i saw flip at meijer so he officially stays on the team...

I'm at Meijer all the time, no fair.

Then again, not the Meijer in Farmington Hills I'm guessing.

[titanium2 867]

This guy I just replied to, wings7, lilja4mvp. I can't think of anyone else.

Edit: It was probably GMR just to piss me off.

I think it's safe to say that anyone who votes for that option pretty much just hates Fil.

Whaaaat? GMR would never ever do such a thing.

[Guest Crymson]

Ok, since other topics always seem to be hijacked over this question, I will make a thread for all the discussion.

I keep saying the only reason I'd think about moving Flip is because he is the most movable of all the players on Detroit, he would get the best return, and since Detroit is deep on center, he realistically is our 3rd line center which would be a waste of his offensive abilities since he wouldn't have any talent with him to finish, and if he plays 1st/2nd line on the wing some of his defensive ability would be lost (which is arguably his greatest asset) because wings arent supposed to be as defensively responsible as the center.

Personally there is one trade id make

Flip and Lebda and a 2nd for Olesz in Florida. Other than this one trade i really don't see many deals that would give the wings a good enough return to move him.

So, I am sure everyone has their opinion/expectations/etc

Olesz has 13 goals this year so far. He is in his third season and he has 50 goals and 62 points in total. He has played almost every game this season; Filppula missed more than twenty games with injury, and he has only four points less. They are almost the same age.

Why should we trade a proven scorer---what's more, someone who has proven he can also score in the playoffs---who has a lot of growth left, PLUS a high draft pick, in exchange for an unproven scorer?

Yea, I see Zetterberg and Datsyuk are both lighting the lamps night in and out.

Oh, I get it now. We should do this as a knee-jerk measure rather than thinking even merely in the long-term.

So, it'll help us to get some random third-rate scorer? Good call.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Crymson

[Shaman 713]

Olesz has 13 goals this year so far. He is in his third season and he has 50 goals and 62 points in total. He has played almost every game this season; Filppula missed more than twenty games with injury, and he has only four points less. They are almost the same age.

Why should we trade a proven scorer---what's more, someone who has proven he can also score in the playoffs---who has a lot of growth left, PLUS a high draft pick, in exchange for an unproven scorer?

Oh, I get it now. We should do this as a knee-jerk measure rather than thinking even merely in the long-term.

So, it'll help us to get some random third-rate scorer? Good call.

Well, Olesz is described in the league as the next franzen, but with some extra tools, hes younger and more potential than flip....

[Guest Crymson]

Well, Olesz is described in the league as the next franzen, but with some extra tools, hes younger and more potential than flip....

I've heard him described as no such thing (I haven't heard him described as much at all; he has a very low profile, in fact), and hockeyfutures is not in any sense the be-all, end-all of judges of talent. As things stand at the moment, Olesz is a decent scorer but nothing more, and he has progressed hardly at all in the four seasons he has played in the league.

Flip has quite a bit of development left to do, while Olesz is nothing notable---how have you judged that he has more potential than Filppula does?---and he is 24 years old to Filppula's 25.

????

I think you'll see a trade long before you see these lines, no way ZDH will be a fixture in Detroit after the break.

There is neither any evidence nor any sense at all behind your claim. It has absolutely no basis.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Crymson

[Guest Crymson]

What gives you the impression Filppula has more to offer?...I honestly get the impression that what we see in him is what we're gonna get, and nothing more.

He has been steadily improving every season.

[Finnish Wing 110]

@RedWingsAbner: it seems that you ignore posts you can't argue against. Still waiting reply for this:

It's all the same to me which role Babcock plays him as long as we win. Filppula is a 2nd liner in the NHL and 2nd liner in this team. He is among our 6 best forwards. The only reason he may play in the 3rd line is because guys like Cleary, Holmstrom and Bertuzzi are wingers or because guys like Helm may not be ready to be more than 4th liners. Either way, he won't be going anywhere.

Filppula is 106th ppg in the league among forwards who have played at least 10 games this season. There are 30x6=180 top6 forwards (=at least 2nd liners) in the league so Filppula is pretty easily on that list. The reason why I count ppg and not points is because Filppula has been injured this season. Marian Gaborik was still a top6 forward in the league last season even though he had only 23 points.

Filppula is a 2nd liner.

Another fact why Filppula shouldn't be traded: he's much more valuable to us than for other teams, so we would never good enough price trading him.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Agreed.

Our lack of a solid sniper is really hurting the Red Wings this season...Filppula does have decent trade value - however for someone whom could potentially get 40 plus - Holland would have to toss in a prospect, and/or a draft pick.

Kindl and a 2nd.

[RedWingAbner 13]

@RedWingsAbner: it seems that you ignore posts you can't argue against. Still waiting reply for this:

It's all the same to me which role Babcock plays him as long as we win. Filppula is a 2nd liner in the NHL and 2nd liner in this team. He is among our 6 best forwards. The only reason he may play in the 3rd line is because guys like Cleary, Holmstrom and Bertuzzi are wingers or because guys like Helm may not be ready to be more than 4th liners. Either way, he won't be going anywhere.

Filppula is 106th ppg in the league among forwards who have played at least 10 games this season. There are 30x6=180 top6 forwards (=at least 2nd liners) in the league so Filppula is pretty easily on that list. The reason why I count ppg and not points is because Filppula has been injured this season. Marian Gaborik was still a top6 forward in the league last season even though he had only 23 points.

Filppula is a 2nd liner.

Another fact why Filppula shouldn't be traded: he's much more valuable to us than for other teams, so we would never good enough price trading him.

I don't ignore them, I just respond to others and go to bed. I know you used that ridiculous stat, and others picked it apart, but come on. It's just silly. This needs to stop.

I know you like Flip. I wonder, honestly, if you would be so insistent on his ability if he was from Sweden. But as I said to others, it's not an argument worth having. Neither of us will convince the other, and you particularly are so insistent that I answer every single post-- it's not worth my time, or yours.

You like Flip. I do too, just not as much.

[Z and D for the C 712]

He has been steadily improving every season.

Every game even.

[Finnish Wing 110]

I don't ignore them, I just respond to others and go to bed. I know you used that ridiculous stat, and others picked it apart, but come on. It's just silly. This needs to stop.

I know you like Flip. I wonder, honestly, if you would be so insistent on his ability if he was from Sweden. But as I said to others, it's not an argument worth having. Neither of us will convince the other, and you particularly are so insistent that I answer every single post-- it's not worth my time, or yours.

You like Flip. I do too, just not as much.

I can't defend a guy that I like? I know much about him, that's why I defend him rather than a guy like May I don't know much about.

You still didn't reply to the actual point I made. I make three solid arguments and you call them "ridiculous" just because that's the only thing you can do besides admitting you're wrong.

Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg, Filppula, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom. Those are our six best forwards in that particular order. How isn't Filppula a 2nd liner exactly?

Edited February 13, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Guest mindfly]

Filppula isn't a 2nd line center, BUT on this team at this moment he is, but they will split zetterberg and datsyuk so they center the top2 lines and filppula will play the third line centre or somehow learns how to play the wing in the top two lines

Edited February 13, 2010 by mindfly

[Finnish Wing 110]

Filppula isn't a 2nd line center, BUT on this team at this moment he is, but they will split zetterberg and datsyuk so they center the top2 lines and filppula will play the third line centre or somehow learns how to play the wing in the top two lines

It's the opposite. He is a 2nd line center, but on this team he doesn't get the chance to play there in the future, because Babcock splits Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Edited February 13, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[RedWingAbner 13]

I can't defend a guy that I like? I know much about him, that's why I defend him rather than a guy like May I don't know much about.

You still didn't reply to the actual point I made. I make three solid arguments and you call them "ridiculous" just because that's the only thing you can do besides admitting you're wrong.

Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg, Filppula, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom. Those are our six best forwards in that particular order. How isn't Filppula a 2nd liner exactly?

My point is, arguing about someone being 106th in ppg is so stupid it doesn't need to be discussed. Your ranking is subject to your opinion. Filppula is not a 2nd liner because our top 2 centers are Datsyuk and Zetterberg, our top 4 wingers are Franzen, Bertuzzi, Cleary, and Holmstrom. Is he a 2nd liner somewhere else? Maybe. But he's not here, and if we are paying him like we are, we shouldn't be playing him on the 3rd line (which, on a healthy Wings team, he'd be on).

Calling something ridiculous when it is ridiculous is not a cop out. It's just not worth the time to go down your little bunny trails. It'd be like me trying to say that statistically, it is better for Super Bowl teams to play and beat the Buccaneers-- because up until this year, no team that lost to them in the regular season went on to win the Super Bowl. It is there, on paper, but it's not much to base an argument on. Bunny trail-- as in, so and so is 106th in ppg among forwards. It's a waste of time.

[Finnish Wing 110]

So he just IS 3rd liner because you say so? No matter how he produces, your word is the fact. Okay, then.

There are basically 74 top6 forwards producing less than Filppula and somehow Filppula isn't a top6 forward. Marian Gaborik was a 4th liner last year? Okay, I see.

I think your hate towards Filppula is much much bigger than my bias.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Finnish Wing