Is Babcock a bad coach!?

[Guest blueadams]

How can you lose to the u.s. with that kind of talent!? how can you let the swiss take you to the 5th shot of a shoot-out!? Their fourth line is arguably better than our 1st line. Babcock has arguably the best 22 players that have ever dressed together in his lockerroom...and he lets the swiss take him to a shootout...and he loses to the us!?

something is not right.

[Guest zackmorris]

This is the snap reaction but as usual the snap reaction is the wrong one.

With tournaments like this, you usually blame the coach last. There's only so much you can do with a group of guys you've never coached before who are a massive group of egos. If they don't play well together and dont' hustle there's no amount of motivation or line shuffling that will change that. Canada is not playing well together and when they did today, they had their goalie completely s*** the bed.

Babcock is doing the right things, it's just his team isn't responding. And as much as I like Stevie Y, I don't think he sent the best possible team. I think he caved to the will of those around him.

I think at the core, the very core of the problem, you can look at the Canadian training methods of younger players. We're just not as skilled as foreign players once they bulk up. That's it.

You also have to take into account, he's got a talented team but so do many other countries. Expecting coaching results in a week after giving a guy a totally new team? Eh, not the coaches fault. The players have to step up. He's tinkering to see what works and he just hasn't been lucky enough to find anything that has yet.

Edited February 22, 2010 by zackmorris

[cupforwings 138]

How can you lose to the u.s. with that kind of talent!? how can you let the swiss take you to the 5th shot of a shoot-out!? Their fourth line is arguably better than our 1st line. Babcock has arguably the best 22 players that have ever dressed together in his lockerroom...and he lets the swiss take him to a shootout...and he loses to the us!?

something is not right.

Yeah, his players don't know how to win in pressure situations apparently. Coaching is part of the problem, but a majority of the blame goes to the players not performing when they need too. Hockey is a team game and the best TEAM usually wins. I still think Canada will start playing better, but just because they have the best players doesn't make them a great team.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

are you going to make up some new lines or tease us with this

[acidroach420 25]

Hockey is a team game and the best TEAM usually wins. I still think Canada will start playing better, but just because they have the best players doesn't make them a great team.

I agree 100% with this. Watching the game tonight, USA looked like they had been playing together for seasons instead of around a week. To me, they look like one of the best two way teams I've ever seen.

All the players seem to know where their linemates are at all points and can clear the puck out of their zone and start a rush in a blink of a eye. the Canadian team looked like a bunch of players playing together all trying to be the star, which does not work.

[Kwame_Kilpatrick 0]

i agree i think yzerman did not send the best team, they need players who are more grinders but with some skill like kesler, and there are too many old farts. also neidermayer as the captain cmon iginla is obviously the leader he is a legend when i first was playing hockey he was my favourite player and i still love him he plays with passion and he is a fighter but he is a respectful opponent, he is respected by his team mates most important. neidermayer is too old and they need to breed the canadian hockey team to work together in future tournaments, half of this team will be retired soon its not good

also i am usa so this is my outside view of canada but i hope canada does good because i have lots of respect for them

[Jedi 1,865]

Coach of the Year in '89 with Red Deer College.

Canada West Coach of the Year in '94 with the University of Lethbridge, including winning the Canadian University national title.

Head coach for Canada in the '97 WJC, where they won the Gold Medal.

Two time WHL Western Division coach of the year, '95-'96 and '99-'00

Head coach for Canada in the '04 IIHF Championships, where they won the Gold Medal.

Guided the '03 Ducks to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

'07-'08 Stanley Cup Champion.

'07-'08 Jack Adams Award finalist.

Guided the '08-'09 Wings to the Stanley Cup Finals for the second straight year, the first time since the '00 & '01 Devils to make back-to-back Finals appearances.

Say what you want, but he has consistently produced results at every level he's coached at, college, juniors and pros. With stacked rosters, and with underdogs. Babcock isn't a bad coach. Bad coaches don't rack up the hardware and success that Babs has.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

The US has a good balance of offensive and defensive players. They are by FAR the best team Canada has played. Canada played with the same tempo they played with against the previous "lesser" teams until there was 5 minutes left in the game when they actually played like they had a challenger.

The US was the better team.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Wings_Dynasty

[Guest zackmorris]

^I would say Canada took it to them all game and just ran into a hot goalie. They didn't play amazingly but they played better than the US. Brodeur sucking the fat one also helped the states quite a bit.

[hak 21]

I think someone hijacked blueadams account. A blueadams thread without any new line suggestions? Something is fishy..

[Guest Lidstromboli]

maybe we need to decode the original post to find new line combinations

[Seraph 240]

I said it in another thread... you put a bunch of star players on the same team, half of them won't know what to do without a supporting cast of secondary scorers or role players. The US has meshed well because they come in a wide variety of talent and each know their role and what they can contribute to the team. The Canadian players aren't used to playing with people of the same caliber as them.

Plus, it helps that Brodeur bumbling around like an idiot out there.

[Guest Crymson]

Umm well, let's see.

1) The Canadians have had a HUGE number of scoring chances in each of their games. The issue has NOT been with poor positioning or planning; it has been that they simply cannot finish. When players are around the net with the puck, coaching is no longer a factor. It is ALL up to the player.

2) Hiller and Miller were both excellent against Canada.

3) Against Switzerland, only one goal was legit. The other was a deflection off of Marleau.

4) It is not Babcock's fault that: a) Brodeur decided to play the puck in a very stupid way, b) two goals went in off of team Canada players. NONE of those goals tonight were a result of poor coaching.

5) Putting together a bunch of good players on paper does not automatically create a good team. One must deal with a bunch of players who are used to different styles and different roles, and many of whom have bad attitudes or star complexes.

That said, Babcock is sure as hell not a bad coach in any sense of the word; do you watch hockey?

[Guest mindfly]

But it is babcock's fault to play brodeur when luongo cleary is a better choice; Butterfly > Ortodox Mix

[Guest zackmorris]

But it is babcock's fault to play brodeur when luongo cleary is a better choice; Butterfly > Ortodox Mix

I think there's a certain Czech goaltender who would beg to differ with your labeling of styles as a benchmark for skill.

That said I do think Luongo is better from a pure skill pov. I'm sure I'll be told about a bunch of team accomplishments and whatnot but Luongo would have a handful of rings if he played in hockey's most defensive system for 20 years.

[egroen 384]

It's funny, because Gretzky built the team with more grinders (like Draper) and Canada still was upset - I dunno.

Maybe Canada is going with too many veterans and not as much younger players who play as if their lives were on the line (which appears to be the case with a lot of other teams). The vets and stars for Canada just do not seem to be taking it as seriously.

Definitely time to yank Brodeur.... amazing how badly he was outplayed. Babcock's biggest mistake was not pulling him (but then if Canada still lost, can you imagine the heat?) And Thornton has done nothing to suggest he should ever be chosen for the team again. Crosby was a -3

Rafalski needs to play like that for us!

I have trouble seeing the US beat Canada in a 7 or even 3 game series, but them's the breaks in only single games.

They'll be hell to pay in Canada - I'll say that much.

How can you blame Babcock for this:

Edited February 22, 2010 by egroen

[dat's sick 1,002]

It's not Babcock's fault.

God just won't let a team with so many douchebags win. Doesn't help that they have a full line of proffessional chokers.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I said it when Stevie Y was first selected as Team Canada's GM: With that much talent, its a crap shoot at exactly which star-complex superstars you pick to play on the team and the backlash in Canada for not winning these games is going to be over-the-top, out-of-this-world-ridiculous.

I would have preferred he never got the job because its always the same story. Guy gets job, guy is told who should and shouldn't play by Canadian media for almost a year, then they get to the tournament with no time to actually prepare beyond who's on whose line and all it takes is a couple hot goaltenders to make an entire nation look at a GM who was basically forced to pick a fantasy team and a coach who does nothing but open the door as culprits for their incredible defeat.

Its been done so many different ways, but its a short tournament and its based on luck straight out of the gate, which Canada has not had. I really hope this is blamed on the players themselves and not the coach and GM of the Canadian fantasy team.

[b.shanafan14 733]

It's not Babcock's fault.

God just won't let a team with so many douchebags win. Doesn't help that they have a full line of proffessional chokers.

Or there is that

[Datsyerberger 279]

Two biggest things that decided this match:

1. Brodeur stunk it up (I know some people are being nice to him because he's, you know, Marty, but it's true). That one is admittedly Bab's call, but imo he gets eviscerated even more by the media if he goes with Lu and loses. Now it's been shown that Marty isn't the 'guy', and he can play one of the other two goalies in the game(s) that really matters.

2. Miller. Ryan... MFing... Miller.

Going by save percentage alone, reverse the goaltending situation in that game:

Canada: 7 (8 if EN)

USA: ~2

Granted, I know quality of chances has to be taken into account, but that was biased in Canada's favor as well. In short, yea, goaltending can make that much of a difference.

Assuming both teams play with a goaltender at .900%

USA: 2.5 (so 2 or 3)

Canada: 4.5 (so 4 or 5, 5 or 6 if EN)

Edit: Actually, it's more lopsided than all of that. I used the wrong numbers for Marty, ending up with a .845% rather than the .81 or so that he had... so that slants things even more in the team-with-Miller's favor. The above numbers assuming .900 work regardless, though.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[RedWingAbner 13]

Face it....Canada couldn't expect to win with their current roster. No team, save one, could....and Finland is ecstatic that Valterri Filppula is theirs.

All joking aside, Babcock can't stop the puck, and last night, neither could Brodeur. Honestly, goalies have bad games (which Broduer had), and the Olympics makes it look that much worse--a bad game can cost you the tournament. He could switch to Luongo and Canada could roll through the rest of the way.

I don't think it's bad coaching, just dumb luck at the wrong time.

[CopenhagenWing 38]

Remember that Canada lost 5-2 to Sweden in the preliminary round in Salt Lake City. If you're going to have a bad game in tournament play, the prelims is the time for it.

[blikst 1]

How can you lose to the u.s. with that kind of talent!? how can you let the swiss take you to the 5th shot of a shoot-out!? Their fourth line is arguably better than our 1st line. Babcock has arguably the best 22 players that have ever dressed together in his lockerroom...and he lets the swiss take him to a shootout...and he loses to the us!?

something is not right.

You are probably one of those people that think Canada should just be given the gold medal before the tournament has even started. I mean, their players are just so AWESOME that no other team can beat their AWESOMENESS!

Unless Babcock is coaching of course. And why can't the Olympics go on for another month so we can have 7 game series really? These one game tournaments is just about luck. Unless Canada wins as I've understood it.

Edited February 22, 2010 by blikst

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Another thing too is maybe it's better for the players to play under different coaches. The Wings are all used to Babcock, but now some of our guys are playing with coaches who maybe have a different perspective on things and can try something new.

[Original-Six 254]

I dont get why everyone is so surprised. Canada is the overwhelmingly favorite every year and they cant get it done. This has been going on for 50 years now, with 2002 being a exception. Its basically just like waiting for the Sharks to choke early in the playoffs.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Original-Six