Is Babcock a bad coach!?

[Guest Crymson]

couldn't agree more, I like how everyone is saying the US won this game by a fluke, that's bulls*** the entire US team played their hearts out and came out with the win.

Miller was amazing, Falski was amazing, young fast talent, no egos, just playing for the Red White and Blue

I completely agree. And you've got a great point about the young talent with no egos. Drury and Rafalski are maybe the oldest guys out there, and they both are natural leaders with no egos.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

cut Babs some slack all you want... the Canadian team looks terribly out of sync compared to the other hockey powers. this is undeniably a coaching issue. Its also hard to deny how good Rafalski looks on team USA. just maybe Babs isn't using him right? Notice all the long range shots put on Miller last night? You'd hope a decent coach would ask his team to adjust sometime before the end of regulation.

"The most overlooked aspect of Uncle Sam's win on Sunday was the fact that Ron Wilson, plain and simple, outcoached Mike Babcock." -- Stan Fischler

[dicksmack 33]

Not a bad coach, but an overrated coach. Remember the last two seasons he had a chance to win the cup on home ice and blew it both times(barely survived game 6 in Pittsburgh in '08). For a team with as much depth and experience as the Wings you'd think they would have been more relaxed than they were for those 2 games, some of that has to ultimately fall on the coach. I think the Wings obsession with experience has rubbed off on Yzerman and babcock and is now showing on Team Canada, guys like Stamkos not making the team despite being in the top 10 in league scoring.

You can't put all of this on Babcock. The entire team including Babcock didn't have a great night.

But I agree he's a bit over-rated. Babcock refuses to make line changes until it's too late. He insists on going with 2 pp units whether or not only one is firing, often putting the slumping one out first and leaving 20 second dregs for the better unit. He won't call a time out like last night and rest the Crosby line that was all over the Americans at the end and put them back out--instead of going with the Sharks' top line that's known for choking under pressure.

Many coaches would have pulled a goalie who made a play like Brodeur's paddle whack try...

Edited February 22, 2010 by dicksmack

[Guest blueadams]

Babcock, Yzerman, Holland...

Bad goalie play, talented players that just can't seem to finish, ran into a hot goalie...etc...

Doesn't it all sound strangely familiar?

[Guest Crymson]

Babcock has made some very poor decisions so far. He took Iginla off the top line the next game after he had a hat-trick, he failed to call a time-out late in yesterday's game, (total bonehead move) and an argument could be made that he should have pulled Brodeur after the third American goal. Brodeur crapped the bed last night and Babcock failed to act. He has also juggled the lines way too much (again, Iginla) and not allowed any chemistry to build. From a Canadian standpoint, we are in general not too happy with him. Sorry, but it's the truth. I know he has an impressive resume, but right now he isn't living up to it.

You, from a Canadian standpoint, will always find someone to blame when your vaunted team somehow, shockingly, incredibly, impossibly loses. I think this comes from some conception that your nation is invincible in hockey and that someone did something horribly wrong if the team loses.

The fact is that your team has been unable to put the puck in the net for the last two games. Babcock cannot go on the ice and do it for them.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Babcock needs to stop trying to roll 4 lines.

The Crosby line is a lot better than their other lines.

[Marty Barry 230]

Canada wins the gold on the paper, but on the ice:

[Barrie 900]

I don't think it's Babcock and Yzerman's fault that a lot of Canada's top players have either choked in big games or don't have enough winning experience in the NHL.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

You, from a Canadian standpoint, will always find someone to blame when your vaunted team somehow, shockingly, incredibly, impossibly loses. I think this comes from some conception that your nation is invincible in hockey and that someone did something horribly wrong if the team loses.

The fact is that your team has been unable to put the puck in the net for the last two games. Babcock cannot go on the ice and do it for them.

I didn't make this thread. I simply replied to it.

And it might be nice if you addressed the points I made and attempted to refute them rather than taking the easy way out and accusing me of having an ulterior motive because I'm Canadian. Step up with an argument or take your 2-bit theories about my motives elsewhere please. Besides, you know nothing of how I feel about Team Canada and it's a mistake on your part to lump me in with any nutty generalized view you may have of Canadians.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Chairman Maouth

[clutchngrab 12]

This is the snap reaction but as usual the snap reaction is the wrong one.

With tournaments like this, you usually blame the coach last. There's only so much you can do with a group of guys you've never coached before who are a massive group of egos. If they don't play well together and dont' hustle there's no amount of motivation or line shuffling that will change that. Canada is not playing well together and when they did today, they had their goalie completely s*** the bed.

Babcock is doing the right things, it's just his team isn't responding. And as much as I like Stevie Y, I don't think he sent the best possible team. I think he caved to the will of those around him.

I think at the core, the very core of the problem, you can look at the Canadian training methods of younger players. We're just not as skilled as foreign players once they bulk up. That's it.

You also have to take into account, he's got a talented team but so do many other countries. Expecting coaching results in a week after giving a guy a totally new team? Eh, not the coaches fault. The players have to step up. He's tinkering to see what works and he just hasn't been lucky enough to find anything that has yet.

Excellent post meinen freund. Canada has always struggled with chemistry and not talent. I think that's because team's that excel have a good mix of youth and experience. The enthusiasm of youth is needed at times ( ala Kessler) as well as the vet experience (ala Rafalski). Same thing wins cups, btw.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Cant blame Babcock for Iginla not playing well, a hat trick against Norway... congrats, Pronger looked like his 2003 form against Norway. Thornton and Marleau, Babs plays them alot and they dont do s***, Heatley is at least getting on the scoreboard. Pronger and Niedermayer... nuff said. I say just put Iginla back on Crosbys line, frig the Shark line and use the Nash-Getzlaf-Heatley line that's dominated at the WHC's the past couple years and screw around with the bottom lines to make them hard to play against. Hopefully starting Luongo gives them a spark, and that's all us Canadians can hope for. No gonna second guess Stevie, but I think Doan/Smyth over Bergeron couldnt have hurt either.

[dragonballgtz 273]

I don't buy that for a second. There's a huge number of captains on this team. Leadership isn't a problem. I think it might be a case of too many leaders and not enough followers.

People should know who the real leaders are on a team. Hell look at 2002 team the 3 that had the C and As were the leaders and anyone else on that team would know that as well.

Edited February 23, 2010 by dragonballgtz

[Nev 1,085]

That 2002 Canadian team had Lemiuex, Yzerman, Sakic, Niewendyk and Shanahan. Classy veterans with multiple cups each. I don't see anything similar on the current Canadian roster

[zettie85 106]

Canada will be there on Sunday in the finals. We have outplayed every team we have come across. Hiller and Miller both played great games but without them there respective teams looked pretty bad. I'll admit Canada needs to improve. They need to shoot the puck. They may get tons of shots but so many chances go to waste because they wait to long or dish it off. All you have to do is go back to the fundamentals.

If I had it my way Bab's would go to Luongo. It's his god damn rink and I honestly think he will shine and be a huge boost to this team. Nash and Stall were unreal on Sunday. Keep Richards on Crosbys wing. They looked great.

Canada will be there. They will get their s*** together. 2002 started off like crap for us as well.

Just found this.

Luongo to Start

Similar situation to the Wings this season. I think it is good that Babs shows everyone that it`s his team.

Edited February 23, 2010 by zettie85

[Kira 451]

I don't blame Mike Babcock. As the old saying goes, you gotta dance with those what brung you. And considering what he brought to the table, there's too much potential to screw up and play like a weekend bar league. Which is just what they're doing. They need to park their egos at the door and concentrate on what brought them there.

[Guest Crymson]

"The most overlooked aspect of Uncle Sam's win on Sunday was the fact that Ron Wilson, plain and simple, outcoached Mike Babcock." -- Stan Fischler

Wow, argument over. Stan Fischler said that Babcock was to blame. That's it. We're all wrong.

Who is Stan Fischler and why should we give a s*** about a quote from him that has absolutely no argument accompanying it?

[digitaljohn88 4]

IMO, Babcock has always been terrible with goalies. I can't comment on other areas yet. His team could still win gold.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Babcock's teams over the long haul have been two 2 Stanley Cup Finals, a Western Conference Final, and have won a Stanley Cup.

While Canada should and might still be one of the odds on favorite to win this tourney, any team can have an upset loss or go down early in just a span of 5, 6 games or whatever. The Olympic games aren't all that long so an upset here/there shouldn't be too stunning.

Babcock is not a bad coach.

[DMAC 25 18]

miller stood on his head in that game theres nothing a coach can do about that

[dragonballgtz 273]

That 2002 Canadian team had Lemiuex, Yzerman, Sakic, Niewendyk and Shanahan. Classy veterans with multiple cups each. I don't see anything similar on the current Canadian roster

And thats why I said in my original post that it will come with age as the true leaders will stand out then.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Did anyone else catch what the full interview with Don Cherry on ESPN? I was at the mall and only caught a little bit of it mostly the end where he said Canadians should feel embarrassed. I'm not sure what his thoughts were on the game but I am sure every other Canadian would agree with whatever he said.

[cupforwings 138]

Canada will be there on Sunday in the finals. We have outplayed every team we have come across. Hiller and Miller both played great games but without them there respective teams looked pretty bad. I'll admit Canada needs to improve. They need to shoot the puck. They may get tons of shots but so many chances go to waste because they wait to long or dish it off. All you have to do is go back to the fundamentals.

If I had it my way Bab's would go to Luongo. It's his god damn rink and I honestly think he will shine and be a huge boost to this team. Nash and Stall were unreal on Sunday. Keep Richards on Crosbys wing. They looked great.

Canada will be there. They will get their s*** together. 2002 started off like crap for us as well.

Just found this.

Luongo to Start

Similar situation to the Wings this season. I think it is good that Babs shows everyone that it`s his team.

Comparing this years canadian team to the team in 2002 in an unfair comparison. No player is even close to the status those players had reached in their careers. On a team with Yzerman and Lemiux, I can see how there would be no need to panic. But this team is very very different, and the Canadians are going to have to play some GREAT hockey to beat both the Russians and Swedes.

[blikst 1]

IMO, Babcock has always been terrible with goalies. I can't comment on other areas yet. His team could still win gold.

Exactly how have Babcock influenced how the goalie have played so far in the competition?

[Guest Crymson]

I didn't make this thread. I simply replied to it.

And it might be nice if you addressed the points I made and attempted to refute them rather than taking the easy way out and accusing me of having an ulterior motive because I'm Canadian. Step up with an argument or take your 2-bit theories about my motives elsewhere please. Besides, you know nothing of how I feel about Team Canada and it's a mistake on your part to lump me in with any nutty generalized view you may have of Canadians.

I and others had beforehand already addressed the points you came in to make. I said what I said because it seemed to me a sure thing that you were simply looking for a scapegoat, given the circumstantial and generally meek character of your arguments. That your next post gave no response to any of the posts proceeding yours, instead simply quoting an analyst without any context or any accompanying argument from that analyst, lent credence to my theory.

I do not lump you in with all Canadians. I am not stereotyping all Canadians to begin with. I am placing you in that category of Canadians who really are just that arrogant about hockey.

[zettie85 106]

Comparing this years canadian team to the team in 2002 in an unfair comparison. No player is even close to the status those players had reached in their careers. On a team with Yzerman and Lemiux, I can see how there would be no need to panic. But this team is very very different, and the Canadians are going to have to play some GREAT hockey to beat both the Russians and Swedes.

It has nothing to do will the names on the sweaters, bud. US beat Canada on Sunday with a lesser team. I'm comparing the situation. If these players pull it together they will win. Luongo should be a huge boost. Canada has been the dominant team in each game they just have trouble finding the net. They beat the USA if Miller wasn't in net. The shootout doesn't happen if Hiller isn't playing as well.

To have an SO win and a loss because of goaltending alone is not something to be upset about. You know you are doing everything right but aren't scoring.