egroen 384 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 There should be a minimum standard stated before consideration even begins: - At least one Hart Trophy or at least five combined Norris/Vezina/Selke/Conn Smythe Trophy wins as a Red Wing - Multiple first-team NHL player as Red Wing, or top ten in a major career scoring/goaltending statistical category while spending at least 75 per cent of prime career as Red Wing. - Captaining multiple Red Wings teams to Stanley Cups - overwhelming fan/community support for the player on and off the ice. - namechecked in a Kid Rock album cut. IMO at least four of these criterion must be met. Gordie Howe fails two of those. Ted Lindsay fails two. Sid Abel fails two. Delvecchio fails three. Sawchuk fails three. Yzerman fails one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digged 1 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 Some day #91 will hang in the rafters... He is #5 on the all time Red Wings scoring list. Won 3 Cups with the team and behind Yzerman he was our best player in the 90's. He is #3 on the all time Red Wings playoffs scoring list infront of Howe, Lindsey and Delvecchio. (i seriously doubt we win the 98 Cup without his 10 goals in that playoff) Last but not least he's a future hall of famer and if we don't retire his number... who will? If he would have come back and played for us one more time i honestly think he would have gotten the same treatment as Ben Wallace. I would also like to see Osgood get more consideration Top ten in career wins 74 playoff wins with a 2.09 GAA (including 1.55 GAA in 2008 when he should have won the Conn Smythe) #1 in all time playoff wins in Red Wings history If Richter has his number retired by the Rangers (and Osgood blows him away when it comes to stats and championships) than why not honor the Winningest playoff goalie in Wings history? I sure hope that after such a great run (4 cups in 11 years plus 18 straight playoff appearance's) we have more than just two player numbers retired. It would seem like we didn't appreciate our great players as much as we should. Maybe 20 years from now we will look back and realize how big the accomplishments of guys like Fedorov and Osgood were. With the way the salary cap is structured we might never see another run like this. 1 egroen reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 Gordie Howe fails two of those. Ted Lindsay fails two. Sid Abel fails two. Delvecchio fails three. Sawchuk fails three. Yzerman fails one. And Red Kelly fails five, unless I'm missing a Kid Rock album somewhere. In general, though, there needs to be a minimum standard before it becomes even worth mentioning. Delvecchio was second in league scoring history when he retired after 22 years as a Wing. We'll give him a pass. Sawchuk has four Vezinas and a Calder. I could amend my list to include "Captaining/Was starting goaltender on multiple Cup winning teams". He had 103 shutouts, most of which was with Detroit (85). Multiple NHL first team all star. Four of the five. Abel worries me because so much of what he did was because of his linemates. It reeks of Hab-ism to have him up there IMO. If he's up there, you can't make an argument about Feds not being up there. I'm not going to argue about Ted Lindsay because he's been such a longtime part of the organization and the alumni club it would be foolish. I think he could also beat the crap out of me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 Mr.Harry Lawrence Aurie got screwed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 I should also add that IMO if a number is retired, somebody basically needs to be a criminal in order to have that honor taken away. I'm not talking tax evasion or breaching probation by drinking a glass of wine, I mean something really awful. Aurie needs to be up there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McAwesome 754 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 I would also like to see Osgood get more consideration Top ten in career wins 74 playoff wins with a 2.09 GAA (including 1.55 GAA in 2008 when he should have won the Conn Smythe) #1 in all time playoff wins in Red Wings history If Richter has his number retired by the Rangers (and Osgood blows him away when it comes to stats and championships) than why not honor the Winningest playoff goalie in Wings history? I completely forgot about Ozzie, which seems to be his fate. Osgood is just good, he's not flashy, he's not vocal, he just shows up and gets the job done, especially when it matters the most. 10th all time in wins, 2 Stanley Cups, one of the most consistent and underrated goalies, and should be considered for both the HHOF and number retirement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 (edited) And Red Kelly fails five, unless I'm missing a Kid Rock album somewhere. In general, though, there needs to be a minimum standard before it becomes even worth mentioning. Delvecchio was second in league scoring history when he retired after 22 years as a Wing. We'll give him a pass. Sawchuk has four Vezinas and a Calder. I could amend my list to include "Captaining/Was starting goaltender on multiple Cup winning teams". He had 103 shutouts, most of which was with Detroit (85). Multiple NHL first team all star. Four of the five. Abel worries me because so much of what he did was because of his linemates. It reeks of Hab-ism to have him up there IMO. If he's up there, you can't make an argument about Feds not being up there. I'm not going to argue about Ted Lindsay because he's been such a longtime part of the organization and the alumni club it would be foolish. I think he could also beat the crap out of me. Red Kelly was robbed of the Hart in 1954 (he was runner-up to goalie Al Rollins who had a losing record and was not even a 1st or 2nd Team All-Star that year). His Hart record is better than every single Red Wing of all-time, except for Gordie Howe (finishing 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 4th - not too shabby for a defenseman). The Norris family actually created the Norris Trophy with him in mind (all-around play as a defenseman) and fittingly he won it the very first year it was awarded. He was the unanimous 1st Team All-Star 4 times before that - bringing his Norris total to 5. And he won 4 Lady Byngs. 6-time first team all-star and 2-time 2nd Team All-Star as a Red Wing. He captained as many Red Wings teams to a championship as Gordie Howe, and he won more Cups with Detroit than Howe. Kelly only fails two. The Vezina in Sawchuk's time is the modern day Jennings Trophy - Sawchuk would have had 3 modern day Vezinas as a Red Wing. Edited March 11, 2010 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marty Barry 230 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 UWE KRUPP!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted March 11, 2010 (edited) Some day #91 will hang in the rafters... He is #5 on the all time Red Wings scoring list. Won 3 Cups with the team and behind Yzerman he was our best player in the 90's. He is #3 on the all time Red Wings playoffs scoring list infront of Howe, Lindsey and Delvecchio. (i seriously doubt we win the 98 Cup without his 10 goals in that playoff) Last but not least he's a future hall of famer and if we don't retire his number... who will? If he would have come back and played for us one more time i honestly think he would have gotten the same treatment as Ben Wallace. I would also like to see Osgood get more consideration Top ten in career wins 74 playoff wins with a 2.09 GAA (including 1.55 GAA in 2008 when he should have won the Conn Smythe) #1 in all time playoff wins in Red Wings history If Richter has his number retired by the Rangers (and Osgood blows him away when it comes to stats and championships) than why not honor the Winningest playoff goalie in Wings history? I sure hope that after such a great run (4 cups in 11 years plus 18 straight playoff appearance's) we have more than just two player numbers retired. It would seem like we didn't appreciate our great players as much as we should. Maybe 20 years from now we will look back and realize how big the accomplishments of guys like Fedorov and Osgood were. With the way the salary cap is structured we might never see another run like this. I'm for Fedorov going up (though it will not be for a long time, I have a feeling), and I really wouldn't sneeze if Osgood went up (though I might not vote for it personally). I agree - this has been an unprecedented run (in modern history) by the Red Wings and Fedorov especially, was a huge part of that. Edited March 11, 2010 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king_malice 17 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 Lidstrom 100% goes up, Datsyuk and Zetterberg could both go up,Osgood maybe,what about Maltby or Draper they might not have the crazy number but both have the Cups and were the best 4th/grind line for years and both were a big part in winning those Cups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trapt1307 81 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 I would say Lilja has a decent chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Lidstrom 100% goes up, Datsyuk and Zetterberg could both go up,Osgood maybe,what about Maltby or Draper they might not have the crazy number but both have the Cups and were the best 4th/grind line for years and both were a big part in winning those Cups. If the Red Wings were formed in 1990 you would have a point. But the Red Wings have had a long history beyond that. Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom (and even McCarty) all were valuable members to championship teams and they deserve to be in the Red Rings Hall of Fame, but there are numerous NHL Hall of Fame players that would be in line to have their jerseys retired before those guys. Hart winners like Ebbie Goodfellow, or someone like Syd Howe, who retired as the NHL points leader of all-time. Marcel Pronovost, Jack Stewart, Marty Pavelich, Norm Ullman, Bill Quackenbush, Harold Lumley, Marty Barry, John Mowers, Norm Smith -- all these guys were better players and also led to multiple championships. Red Wings history is so rich, that guys like Draper and Maltby would literally open up the drafters to dozens more deserving players. Edited March 12, 2010 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevieisthebest 80 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 is Kelly the reason not many players have worn #4.. kinda in his honor?.. I can't think of many wings who were #4 other than Krupp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holliday 1,888 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 I would say Lilja has a decent chance. Lilja is too epic for banners. They are going to erect a statue in is honor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 is Kelly the reason not many players have worn #4.. kinda in his honor?.. I can't think of many wings who were #4 other than Krupp It's been worn occasionally but only briefly in other recent cases... Jamie Rivers, the legendary Cory Cross, Kyle Quincey. Generally not a very popular number among Detroit skaters, but probably just coincidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wing Across The Pond 196 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 Darren Helm. No kidding, if he stays for his career, keeps learning, maybe takes on a leadership role somewhere down the line there's no reason he couldn't. Although I think someone like Abdlekader is more of a born leader if you're going with youngsters (and a Michigan native). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wing Across The Pond 196 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 I completely forgot about Ozzie, which seems to be his fate. Osgood is just good, he's not flashy, he's not vocal, he just shows up and gets the job done, especially when it matters the most. 10th all time in wins, 2 Stanley Cups, one of the most consistent and underrated goalies, and should be considered for both the HHOF and number retirement. Sorry to be picky but wasn't it 3 Cups for Ozzie? It just helps his case! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
softshoes 83 Report post Posted March 12, 2010 Sorry to be picky but wasn't it 3 Cups for Ozzie? It just helps his case! 3cups but only netminding for 2, he watched Vernon win the first one. I'm disappointed in you Grind Liners, almost 2 whole pages for Maltby, Draper and Mac's name to come up. /waiting for the any goalie could have won with the Wings argument against Osgood. 1 Doc Holliday reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSM 114 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 Robert Lang or maybe Yuri Butsayev? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotTooAbby 71 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 Bernie Federko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RollTideWings 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 Roll Tide. And Hank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjgj13 30 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 Gordie Howe fails two of those. Ted Lindsay fails two. Sid Abel fails two. Delvecchio fails three. Sawchuk fails three. Yzerman fails one. Which one does Yzerman fail?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 Which one does Yzerman fail?? The first one - no Hart nor 5 of the major awards he had listed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 I'm disappointed. The FIRST name that should have come up was Anders Myrvold. By far the greatest player to ever wear the Winged Wheel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrazyGangsta 79 Report post Posted March 13, 2010 Lidstrom is a guaranteed lock, after Lids my nominees: Federov - Osgood Either then those two I think the only one that has a decent chance is Datsyuk. I just don't see anyone else being close enough, not even Zettz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites