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deltawing

Howard too old to be Rookie of the Year?

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I flip-flop on this every day. Half the time I feel like what Howard has done is impressive enough despite his age. Especially since expectations (from the fan base) were pretty low. He is a massive reason why we have clinched a berth.

On the other hand...

It's been a long, long time since a rookie has come into the league on defense and made such an impact on their team, especially at his age. And it's not just impressive numbers, he plays well in all situations as far as I can tell.

Today I like Howie.

Tomorrow it'll probably be Myers.

Both are deserving. I'm just gonna call it a dead heat and not give a s*** who gets the trophy. :)

Edited by Broken 16

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Based on the criteria, he's obviously not too old to win it.

It does, however, feel weird when he's going up against guys that are recently removed from high school for a rookie trophy. He obviously has more years and maturity on those guys.

I wouldn't be opposed to the league changing the criteria in the future, but right now Howard should be the leading candidate based on the current rule.

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I'd hope the voters would realize that the large majority of goalies don't come into the league when they're 19 and 20 and generally take longer to develop.

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To me the criteria are set in a very specific way for a reason - both in terms of defining the age requirements and the experience requirements. That being said, for anyone to make the arguments of (1)Howard's age being used against him or; (2) his few previous games of NHL experience or multiple years as a pro in the AHL being used against him, seem really contradictory to me.

I'm not trying to knock anyone by saying that and the fact is despite the fact I think those two arguments are silly, I do realize that not only will ppl believe them but the sports writers will use them. The facts are Howard is not only classes as a rookie by the NHL in terms of age but also in terms of experience. Being 26 years old and having AHL experience and 5 odd NHL games experience before this season should have nothing to do with the voting.

That being said, as much as I'd like to see Howard win, I'd be hard pressed to not vote for Myers.

My prediction:

1. Myers

2. Howard

3. Duchene

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:angry:

I've said this before, but Jackass is no better a player now than he was then.

Guy hasn't improved at all since he was a rookie. What a lame joke.

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I'd hope the voters would realize that the large majority of goalies don't come into the league when they're 19 and 20 and generally take longer to develop.

You could say the same thing about defensemen.

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You could say the same thing about defensemen.

If Howard finishes 2nd I won't be disappointed as long as the winner is Myers and not Duchene.

SiLkK19 likes this

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I'd hope the voters would realize that the large majority of goalies don't come into the league when they're 19 and 20 and generally take longer to develop.

So you mean Rask should win it?

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You could say the same thing about defensemen.

True, but the oldest Calder-winning defenseman in the past 30 years was 21. There's only been one d-man older than that to win it since the the award first came about.

The goalies have generally been in the 22-25 range.

So you mean Rask should win it?

If Rask had played 10-15 more games at the same level of play he'd probably be a lock to win it. That wasn't really my point though.

Edited by Lidstromboli

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People keep mentioning that Rask has better stats than Howard, but the workload has a lot to do with that. One of your jobs as a starting goaltender is to be ready to start any given game, whether they're back-to-back games (as Howard has done all season) or stretches of 20+ games in a row. Having played 60+ games in a season should warrant extra consideration, because as a goalie, battling the fatigue is one of your most difficult tasks. For example, had the last two games Howard played in not happened he would still be sitting around a .928 save percentage.

I also don't think age should play a factor. In Andrew Raycroft's Calder season, he was 23 years old, had 29 wins, a 2.05 GAA, .926 save percentage, and 3 shutouts in 57 games played. In Evgeni Nabokov's Calder season, he was 25 years old, had 32 wins, a 2.19 GAA, .915 save percentage, and 6 shutouts in 66 games played. Ed Belfour was also 25 years old when he won it. Howard differs from the three above goalies in no significant ways. His age, games played, GAA, save percentage, wins, and shutouts will be pretty similar to many recent goaltenders who have won it before him.

I'm not necessarily advocating Howard for the Calder because I think that Myers is equally deserving. I just think that it's ridiculous to discredit Howard based on his age or goaltenders with fewer games played but slightly better statistics.

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People keep mentioning that Rask has better stats than Howard, but the workload has a lot to do with that. One of your jobs as a starting goaltender is to be ready to start any given game, whether they're back-to-back games (as Howard has done all season) or stretches of 20+ games in a row. Having played 60+ games in a season should warrant extra consideration, because as a goalie, battling the fatigue is one of your most difficult tasks. For example, had the last two games Howard played in not happened he would still be sitting around a .928 save percentage.

I also don't think age should play a factor. In Andrew Raycroft's Calder season, he was 23 years old, had 29 wins, a 2.05 GAA, .926 save percentage, and 3 shutouts in 57 games played. In Evgeni Nabokov's Calder season, he was 25 years old, had 32 wins, a 2.19 GAA, .915 save percentage, and 6 shutouts in 66 games played. Ed Belfour was also 25 years old when he won it. Howard differs from the three above goalies in no significant ways. His age, games played, GAA, save percentage, wins, and shutouts will be pretty similar to many recent goaltenders who have won it before him.

I'm not necessarily advocating Howard for the Calder because I think that Myers is equally deserving. I just think that it's ridiculous to discredit Howard based on his age or goaltenders with fewer games played but slightly better statistics.

I'm not saying Rask is a better candidate for the Calder than Howard, but I definitely think that he's the better goalie. People don't seem to get how insane those stats are. If he keeps those stats until the end of the season he will be on the all time top10 in save%. The reason why he hasn't been able to play so many games that the other goalie there is last year's Vezina winner whose cap hit is 5m. I think it's kinda easier to be the number one when the other goalie's name is Osgood and not Thomas.

So, Howard will probably be in the top3 for Calder voting and Rask won't. Still I think Rask has the chance to be the best goalie in the world in 5 years, and he already is better than Howard.

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I'm not saying Rask is a better candidate for the Calder than Howard, but I definitely think that he's the better goalie. People don't seem to get how insane those stats are. If he keeps those stats until the end of the season he will be on the all time top10 in save%. The reason why he hasn't been able to play so many games that the other goalie there is last year's Vezina winner whose cap hit is 5m. I think it's kinda easier to be the number one when the other goalie's name is Osgood and not Thomas.

So, Howard will probably be in the top3 for Calder voting and Rask won't. Still I think Rask has the chance to be the best goalie in the world in 5 years, and he already is better than Howard.

Though Rask has faced considerably worse teams than Howard (like a backup typically does).

You might be right, but Rask's stats have definitely benefited from an easier schedule (and less games).

Edited by egroen

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People keep mentioning that Rask has better stats than Howard, but the workload has a lot to do with that. One of your jobs as a starting goaltender is to be ready to start any given game, whether they're back-to-back games (as Howard has done all season) or stretches of 20+ games in a row. Having played 60+ games in a season should warrant extra consideration, because as a goalie, battling the fatigue is one of your most difficult tasks. For example, had the last two games Howard played in not happened he would still be sitting around a .928 save percentage.

I also don't think age should play a factor. In Andrew Raycroft's Calder season, he was 23 years old, had 29 wins, a 2.05 GAA, .926 save percentage, and 3 shutouts in 57 games played. In Evgeni Nabokov's Calder season, he was 25 years old, had 32 wins, a 2.19 GAA, .915 save percentage, and 6 shutouts in 66 games played. Ed Belfour was also 25 years old when he won it. Howard differs from the three above goalies in no significant ways. His age, games played, GAA, save percentage, wins, and shutouts will be pretty similar to many recent goaltenders who have won it before him.

I'm not necessarily advocating Howard for the Calder because I think that Myers is equally deserving. I just think that it's ridiculous to discredit Howard based on his age or goaltenders with fewer games played but slightly better statistics.

I think you could draw pretty significant differences between Belfour's rookie season and Howard's, not that it really matters though.

True, but the oldest Calder-winning defenseman in the past 30 years was 21.

Yes, but that's really the point. With defensemen generally taking longer to develop, they tend to miss out on the Calder because they are not in the NHL at a young age or are not developed enough. So, age seems to play a bit of a role. You see very, very few young defensemen enter the league and play at the level Myers has played, that will give him a big edge I believe.

However, haven't considered this much, but I think Howard will get a bit of an edge due to timing. He and his team have been playing their best hockey at the end of the season....perhaps this is what the voters will remember.

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Myers should win this award. A quality defensive, shut-down type blueliner with 46 points doesn't come around every day.

Yer typical Calder-winning goalie of about 25-26 will need to have astounding numbers (Belfour, Esposito) in order to qualify in the minds of voters. J-Ho is in a unique situation in that the other candidates (Duchene, Tavares) are having rather un-amazing statistical seasons, while Howard is in the top five in the important statistical categories.

Hell with it, the NHL will fudge the numbers and just give it to a Penguin anyway. Congratulations, Mark Letestu. Job well done.

Jamessss likes this

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Myers should win this award. A quality defensive, shut-down type blueliner with 46 points doesn't come around every day.

Yer typical Calder-winning goalie of about 25-26 will need to have astounding numbers (Belfour, Esposito) in order to qualify in the minds of voters. J-Ho is in a unique situation in that the other candidates (Duchene, Tavares) are having rather un-amazing statistical seasons, while Howard is in the top five in the important statistical categories.

Hell with it, the NHL will fudge the numbers and just give it to a Penguin anyway. Congratulations, Mark Letestu. Job well done.

:lol:

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Howard and Myers is a pretty close race.

On another, unrelated note...

5 Red Wings at the time, and 11 more future Red Wings, have been named to the NHL All-Rookie Team in the 26 years it has existed.

Edited by eva unit zero

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