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Icesurfer

Will Buttman try to fix the playoffs?

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Esteef rocks.

I can live with the non-call on the interference on Helm because it appeared as though both players were expecting a scrambled draw and headed for the circle. That kind of stuff happens in the playoffs and as long as it is called or not called consistently, It doesn't impact the outcome of the game. The Lidstrom high stick was a case where the refs clearly saw it and chose not to give the Wings a 5 on 3 with a second 2 minutes added on for the high stick. Even the linesmen can call a high stick so don't tell me they didn't see it. Other than that, I had no issue with the officiating.

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Is it always someone else's fault? Does the NHL fix every game? Do they fix every season except for the years that the Wings win? You can't script a hockey game. If it's something blatant that clearly decides a season, people will see it and noise will be made. But all in all, the better team is going to find a way to win a 7 game series. That's why it's seven games, not one game. I don't find myself calling for a conspiracy, but then again "Buttman" rigs every game so my team will win.

P.S. I wouldn't worry about last night.To my dismay, Wings in 5.

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So we all know by now that Buttman is trying to save the Phoenix franchise. And we all know that the Red Wing-Phoenix matchup will bring a ton of money into Phoenix and the franchise.

So how far will Buttman and his cronies go to try to fix the games so it goes 7 full games?

We know that Phoenix does not score a ton of goals as they have relied on the shootout to put them where they are.

So we just may see a lot of bad penalty calls and power plays for the Coyotes.

IMHO, if we see Screw-You-LaRue, Way-To-Go-Leggo, Me-An-Ian-Walsh, Blunder-Land-Sutherland, Marc-Joanie-Cronie and Sad-Brad-Watson as the refs, especially at Jobing.com Arena, I think I would be highly suspicious.

Anyone that knows the true history of the NHL, and Buttman, are not one bit surprised that the league owned and ran coyotes are pre-determined to win this series. This does not excuse the fact that the Wings are just not as good this year, for a variety of reasons. Good post.

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Is it always someone else's fault? Does the NHL fix every game? Do they fix every season except for the years that the Wings win? You can't script a hockey game. If it's something blatant that clearly decides a season, people will see it and noise will be made. But all in all, the better team is going to find a way to win a 7 game series. That's why it's seven games, not one game. I don't find myself calling for a conspiracy, but then again "Buttman" rigs every game so my team will win.

P.S. I wouldn't worry about last night.To my dismay, Wings in 5.

Hey, I got an idea. Why don't you hang out in your own teams' web site instead of trolling around in here to piss us off after you got lucky with overrated players, and league backing last year. You will find that consistent greatness is the toughest accomplishment in sports, and is beyond your franchise. Maybe deep down you realize these facts and thats why you hang out in a truly great franchise's site.

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Hey, I got an idea. Why don't you hang out in your own teams' web site instead of trolling around in here to piss us off after you got lucky with overrated players, and league backing last year. You will find that consistent greatness is the toughest accomplishment in sports, and is beyond your franchise. Maybe deep down you realize these facts and thats why you hang out in a truly great franchise's site.

That's why I am here. I want to be more like you guys. :blush:

I made a statement about conspiracy theories, and you responded by insulting the Penguins. That's not how message boards work. I am not going to reply with an insult of the Red Wings, because this thread is about conspiracy theories, not about whether the Red Wings or the Pens are better.

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That's why I am here. I want to be more like you guys. :blush:

I made a statement about conspiracy theories, and you responded by insulting the Penguins. That's not how message boards work. I am not going to reply with an insult of the Red Wings, because this thread is about conspiracy theories, not about whether the Red Wings or the Pens are better.

From what I remember, you're one of the few Pens fans who comes here and DOESN'T start s***, so kudoes to you for that.

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... I am not going to reply with an insult of the Red Wings, because this thread is about conspiracy theories, not about whether the Red Wings or the Pens are better.

Of course, there is no debate. Red Wings have been more successful in the playoffs over the past three years than the Pens, trounced them in the 08 playoffs and the healthy Pens could barely beat an injury-decimated Wings' team in '09. Even with all the injury problems this regular season, the Wings still managed to out-point the Pens, despite being in the tougher West.

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That's why I am here. I want to be more like you guys. :blush:

I made a statement about conspiracy theories, and you responded by insulting the Penguins. That's not how message boards work. I am not going to reply with an insult of the Red Wings, because this thread is about conspiracy theories, not about whether the Red Wings or the Pens are better.

There is no hope man. People here just hate the Penguins irrationally.

Just ignore the trolls.

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I started this thread and I have to say that I do not believe in conspiracy theories. I had no intention of making it a conspiracy either. This was solely based on the fact that there is a huge conflict on interest due to the fact that the NHL own the Phoenix Coyotes and stands to gain by having Phoenix go as far as possible in the playoffs. It is not a conspiracy against the Wings. IT IS ABOUT A NATURAL HUMAN TENDENCY TO "FAVOR YOU OWN" OR "PROTECT YOUR OWN" .... CONSCIOUSLY OR UNCONSCIOUSLY.... DOESN'T MATTER.

The NHL owns the Phoenix Coyotes. The NHL pays the refs. NHL will benefit from the Coyotes going as far in the playoffs as possible in more ways than one. Refs want to please their boss just like any other employee.... so the Refs will try to avoid making mistakes. So if there is any question as to what may have happened on a play they will always error on the side that helps them keep their job. It is not about a conspiracy.... it is about a natural human response.... which I think everyone should be able to understand. Bottom line... it is a conflict of interest.... plain and simple..... no conspiracy.

The title to this thread was used simply to draw your attention.... and it certainly worked! Both theorist and non-theorist... LOL.

As a side note it just astounds me that people justify the blatant errors by the refs by saying that the Wings deserved to lose the game because they were out-played for some part of the game. I'm sorry but that is just plain b@llsh!t.

First of all, how many times did the Wings win a game since the Olympic break where they were out-played for some part of the game? PLENTY! The best teams, including the Stanley Cup Champs, always find a way to win a game even when they are out-played!! We have already seen it in other first games of this first round.

Secondly, I don't remember too may Stanley Cup Champs who out-played their opponents for 60 minutes in all 16 wins. Lucky bounces, deflections and turnovers are a huge part of the game.... for and against.

Third, Lidstrom is probably the MOST professional even-tempered player on the ice. And for him to speak out you know something was seriously wrong. When was the last time Lidstrom spoke out like that when someone took a penalty (non-penalty) against him??? I mean even a testicular spear didn't rile him!

Edited by Icesurfer

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Just because it's a bad call, doesn't mean the league is rigged. Do you really think they carry around a pager and every time Bettman wants a call he buzzes them?

yes, and when its a game crosby is in they have it on loud so they wont miss it

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Well... Why are you here?

I don't think there's anything wrong with a fan of another team being here, as long as they're respectful and to some degree realize they're in hostile waters. Actually I think it makes the forum a better place, getting an outside opinion from other hockey fans. Some of the more insightful members over the years have been from other teams.

Can't we just stand down a little, instead of everyone getting their hackles up just because he's from the hated Pens?

And back on topic, if people seriously think the NHL can be rigged to that degree, why would you spend time watching a sport that has no integrity?

I think there are bad refs, and I'm not fond of how Bettman runs the league, but if I really thought there was an organized conspiracy to advance a team in the playoffs, there's no way in hell I'd waste my time watching hockey.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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I don't think there's anything wrong with a fan of another team being here, as long as they're respectful and to some degree realize they're in hostile waters. Actually I think it makes the forum a better place, getting an outside opinion from other hockey fans. Some of the more insightful members over the years have been from other teams.

Can't we just stand down a little, instead of everyone getting their hackles up just because he's from the hated Pens?

And back on topic, if people seriously think the NHL can be rigged to that degree, why would you spend time watching a sport that has no integrity?

I think there are bad refs, and I'm not fond of how Bettman runs the league, but if I really thought there was an organized conspiracy to advance a team in the playoffs, there's no way in hell I'd waste my time watching hockey.

If it weren't for the Wings, I would do exactly that...walk away from this league. I don't believe the NHL has any integrity at this point, and while I don't think there is an outright conspiracy to advance specific teams, I do think it's a HUGE conflict of interest for the NHL to own a team. I'm not aware of any other time when a professional sports league has owned it's own team (correct me if I'm wrong, no clue about this).

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Overlooking the Actual Role of Ownership of Bettman -

Federal Charge of Conspiracy. If the NHL honestly manipulated the officiating of this game - it would most likely result in the following types of federal convictions: Gambling, Obstruction of Justice, Fraud - which in an extreme federal case could fall under the jurisdiction of RICO.

Even in the most simple cause of Conspiracy (which is what Tim Donaghy was charge with two counts of), the referee in question would be imprisioned and sentenced to a minimum three years in a federal prision. That's if it's an isolated incident of just a referee. Do you honestly believe that an official would attempt to manipulate the outcome of a game, even if ordered by Bettman or Campbell to do so?

Lets say that they do, under the direction of Bettman to Campbell to the Director of Officiating (Not sure who that is right now), now we have consent across multiple levels of the NHL League office - that is now a RICO charge. Which means any and all parties associated with the organization (the NHL) can be held liable. The team in question, The Phoenix Coyotes is actually owned by the League and subsequently owned by the other 29 teams of the league. If the league were to affect the outcome of the game, every single owner could be charge with conspiracy under RICO statute - that's hard Mafia-esque federal prision time.

So, in complete honesty, do you think any single one of those individuals in question would risk any of that to "win" some playoff games?

The obvious response would be "Well, I'm not talking about fraud only a couple of calls here and there and that wouldn't be detected."

True, perhaps the scale of the manipulation wouldn't warrent any suspicion. Unless, there is a dedicated FBI division dedicated to that type of investigation and would be suspisious of a league owned conflict of interest and watch it closely. Oh wait! There is!

"What if the refs were just trying to make Bettman happy and unconciously make a call in favor of the Coyotes?"

Referees, like any position are subject to performance review. In fact quantifiably more than most as a review committee is assigned to gauge the accuracy of a call. The more calls missed or incorrect, the lower the score. A minimum score must be maintained to be a member of the league's officiating. This is how they are promoted, demoted, and selected. So, if a referee were to "miss" calls consistently or at big junctions - a review board specifically created by the owners to evaluate that performance would certainly catch it and release that official. This is not subject to change. It is written in the officials charter and the minimum level of accuracy they must maintain.

If Bettman were to step in a ensure that referee were to keep his job - I imagine the owners board would have some serious concerns and require an explanation - specifically to Illitch a company and I imagine quite a few other owners who would be curious to why he violated the league mandated performance standards of officiating. So, in terms of natural human response to protect their job, the surest way for them to lose their job is to fail to meet league mandated minimum standard. Additionally, the FBI will once again be watching this situation closely as it affects the outcome of the game and this is an unusual situation that raises red flags - enough to where fans of the Detroit Red Wings think it suspicious.

Additionally, the role of the NHL intervention in ownership was purely business related. The "stewardship" of the other 29 owners (Bettman does not own the team, the other owners do) - was to ward off unwanted bids on ownership and to select a financially beneficial transition to an approved owner. That's it. They wanted to find a buyer for next season. Given that motivation, now that they've already found new ownership - what possible benefit would Bettman or the NHL to continue to win? To recoup the financial loss? Even if they win the Cup, they wont do that. And why would they want to? They have a new owner to eat the sunk variable costs. To win a Stanley Cup? Really? How would that benefit the other 29 owners to see Phoenix win a Stanley Cup? I'm fairly confident that the other 15 playoff teams would take serious objection to that.

Influence Calls - Potential Legal Repercussions, Loss of Jobs, Financial Loss to Other Owners, No Impact of Sale of Team

So what is possible benefit would fixing or influencing the outcome of these games on the official, owner, league level?

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Overlooking the Actual Role of Ownership of Bettman -

... too much to quote ...

So what is possible benefit would fixing or influencing the outcome of these games on the official, owner, league level?

Exactly. There's no way there's a league-wide conspiracy. I do think some refs make assumptions about certain players that can affect calls (O'Halloran and Holmstrom), but I don't think it's intentional. Sometimes they just suck at their job.

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