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Hockeytown0001

Are hockey hits harder than football hits?

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without traversing through this thread...

i bet many would grow in respect for hockey hits if they lined a football field with rigid hockey boards. <_<

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Eva, I normally agree with a lot of your posts, but your anectdotal evidence about "high school" football/hockey really has no place in this discussion. Pro =/= highschool.

At the high school level the average player weight for hockey is around 160lb maybe, while football is probably closer to 200lb.

You're saying that when you turn those players into a bunch of 200lb hockey players and 250lb football players, that football will have the harder hits?

The only reason you would be able to make the argument of pro =/= high school is if said school had a very good hockey program and a weak football program, or vice versa. My high school is a large school and typically does well in all sports.

I am not saying football hits aren't hard; having been a football player I know firsthand that this is not true. But hockey has harder hits, even if it's not someone bumping into someone else every tenth of a second.

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Go out there then and stand face to face with a 300 lb lineman and tell me you're not nervous.

What's he gonna do? He's gonna push me. Scary. It's the 250lb linebacker who makes me nervous. The lineman's not gonna be the guy putting his shoulder into your ribs as you're looking the other way trying to catch the pass up the middle.

Linemen are like refrigerators. 1) They're big, heavy, and hard to move. 2) You need them, but you'd be just fine if they didn't exist. 3) It's a good idea to keep them clean.

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At the high school level the average player weight for hockey is around 160lb maybe, while football is probably closer to 200lb.

You're saying that when you turn those players into a bunch of 200lb hockey players and 250lb football players, that football will have the harder hits?

The only reason you would be able to make the argument of pro =/= high school is if said school had a very good hockey program and a weak football program, or vice versa. My high school is a large school and typically does well in all sports.

I am not saying football hits aren't hard; having been a football player I know firsthand that this is not true. But hockey has harder hits, even if it's not someone bumping into someone else every tenth of a second.

This train of thinking is making the basic assumption that the only thing that changes from the high school to pro level is weight of the players. I'm going to take a wild guess and say theres a great deal of speed and more importantly technique in the pros. Just a hunch though.

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This train of thinking is making the basic assumption that the only thing that changes from the high school to pro level is weight of the players. I'm going to take a wild guess and say theres a great deal of speed and more importantly technique in the pros. Just a hunch though.

That line of thinking would assume that hockey players' speed doesn't improve as well. I already examined the scientific effects earlier in the thread. However...

In football, the average speed from the high school level to pro level doesn't really go anywhere. It even falls for some positions/players, as many football players were track athletes in high school as well, and are more speed specialized. As they bulk up and train for different positions in the college/pro level, they tend to trade a little speed for power and upper body strength. The only ones that tend to keep or improve speed are the ones that play speed specialized positions, which tend not to be the ones doing the hitting. What upper end defensive football players at the pro level do have is a lot more explosiveness. They're not going to catch a back that goes taking off, but they can go from a dead standstill to a full run in an instant, great for lateral movement.

Hockey players, on the other hand, tend to significantly improve speed at all positions through the pro level at a greater rate. Improved speed/skating tends to be one of the hardest pushed things for improvement at all levels of play (however, like in football, some players edge towards explosiveness more than speed).

Edited by Datsyerberger

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without traversing through this thread...

i bet many would grow in respect for hockey hits if they lined a football field with rigid hockey boards. <_<

Arena Football! Which I actually find more entertaining than standard field size football.

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I knew I should have checked this post earlier as I don't feel like going through all the posts to see if the proper answer was ever given. THe TV show "Sports Science" actually did tests involving the energy absorbed by players in either sport and football hits were multiple times more punishing than hockey.

Although I have a different feeling on the debate. Every hockey player, not goalies so much, can and do get hit every game. THere are only a handful of players on a football team that will ever see a huge hit in the NFL. Furthermore, football pads are made specifically to absorb huge amounts of evergy, whereas hockey pads are a bit of a joke (except maybe knee pads).

(side note: hockey players are in much better shape)

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I knew I should have checked this post earlier as I don't feel like going through all the posts to see if the proper answer was ever given. THe TV show "Sports Science" actually did tests involving the energy absorbed by players in either sport and football hits were multiple times more punishing than hockey.

Although I have a different feeling on the debate. Every hockey player, not goalies so much, can and do get hit every game. THere are only a handful of players on a football team that will ever see a huge hit in the NFL. Furthermore, football pads are made specifically to absorb huge amounts of evergy, whereas hockey pads are a bit of a joke (except maybe knee pads).

(side note: hockey players are in much better shape)

Just see Charles Rogers for proof. Dude ran 60 yards and needed oxygen on the sidelines a few years back.

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That line of thinking would assume that hockey players' speed doesn't improve as well. I already examined the scientific effects earlier in the thread. However...

In football, the average speed from the high school level to pro level doesn't really go anywhere. It even falls for some positions/players, as many football players were track athletes in high school as well, and are more speed specialized. As they bulk up and train for different positions in the college/pro level, they tend to trade a little speed for power and upper body strength. The only ones that tend to keep or improve speed are the ones that play speed specialized positions, which tend not to be the ones doing the hitting. What upper end defensive football players at the pro level do have is a lot more explosiveness. They're not going to catch a back that goes taking off, but they can go from a dead standstill to a full run in an instant, great for lateral movement.

Hockey players, on the other hand, tend to significantly improve speed at all positions through the pro level at a greater rate. Improved speed/skating tends to be one of the hardest pushed things for improvement at all levels of play (however, like in football, some players edge towards explosiveness more than speed).

Stopped reading and laughed my ass off at the bolded part.

I knew I should have checked this post earlier as I don't feel like going through all the posts to see if the proper answer was ever given. THe TV show "Sports Science" actually did tests involving the energy absorbed by players in either sport and football hits were multiple times more punishing than hockey.

Although I have a different feeling on the debate. Every hockey player, not goalies so much, can and do get hit every game. THere are only a handful of players on a football team that will ever see a huge hit in the NFL. Furthermore, football pads are made specifically to absorb huge amounts of evergy, whereas hockey pads are a bit of a joke (except maybe knee pads).

(side note: hockey players are in much better shape)

Very position dependent. I sincerely doubt that there are many if any NHL players who are faster at running than a top nfl receiver, or stronger relative for weight.

Just see Charles Rogers for proof. Dude ran 60 yards and needed oxygen on the sidelines a few years back.

You mean Shaun Rogers.

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Stopped reading and laughed my ass off at the bolded part.

Very position dependent. I sincerely doubt that there are many if any NHL players who are faster at running than a top nfl receiver, or stronger relative for weight.

You mean Shaun Rogers.

Yes I do. Maybe Charles Rogers isn't in that great shape either. Druggies usually don't tend to be.

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Stopped reading and laughed my ass off at the bolded part.

It's really the case. Many guys remain stable or even lose speed as they bulk up and shift their game for the pro level, as many run track and keep in leaner shape during highschool. The only guys that significantly increase are running-oriented positions.

College is probably the fastest level of football because of this, and imo that's what makes it the most fun to watch.

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It's really the case. Many guys remain stable or even lose speed as they bulk up and shift their game for the pro level, as many run track and keep in leaner shape during highschool. The only guys that significantly increase are running-oriented positions.

College is probably the fastest level of football because of this, and imo that's what makes it the most fun to watch.

That's completely nuts, no offense :P . Professional athletes are much faster than the college athletes.

I might agree that the top level guys from college might be just as fast as NFL players, but the vast majority of players are no where close. There is a big difference in speed on the defensive end in the NFL compared to the defenses in college.

Although that is what makes college football fun, is to see phenomenal athletes like Reggie Bush and Denard Robinson just blow away the competition in college.

Edited by Carman

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This is an impossible question to answer... however, the average hockey player on average would get hit considerably more often than the average football player in a given season. That's about all we can say conclusively.

Average, yes. What about backs and receivers? Quarterbacks?

I played football and hockey in high school. I was a receiver and defensive back in football, and played both forward and defense in hockey. I can tell you right now that hockey hits are harder; the football players in our area were disproportionately large compared to the hockey players if you compare it to the NHL/NFL, and the hits in hockey were still harder, both at the top and on the average.

Complete fallacy. That's assuming you're putting the exact same muscle on someone in both sports. I can tell you right now that football players are generally in much better shape in terms of strength than hockey players.

That line of thinking would assume that hockey players' speed doesn't improve as well. I already examined the scientific effects earlier in the thread. However...

In football, the average speed from the high school level to pro level doesn't really go anywhere. It even falls for some positions/players, as many football players were track athletes in high school as well, and are more speed specialized.

I don't believe this at all, frankly. You're going to tell me that Chris Johnson, who runs a 4.24 40 was faster in high school? Yeah, right. I can pick any position but linemen, and frankly I'd say that your assumption doesn't hold up.

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I don't believe this at all, frankly. You're going to tell me that Chris Johnson, who runs a 4.24 40 was faster in high school? Yeah, right. I can pick any position but linemen, and frankly I'd say that your assumption doesn't hold up.

I already said running-oriented positions (such as RBs) tend to improve. Good job. Johnson was also a track star, by the way. He posted a 4.24 40 before being drafted (before pro level training) and considering he was already running a 10.50 100 in high school I doubt 4.24 was out of his reach then, especially considering 40% of 10.50 is 4.2

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I'm going to have to easily go with football on this one.

Hitting is a part of hockey, while hitting IS football. There is no way the NFL could go 82 games a season because of all the hitting and contact it's players have to endure. Most of the teams would be wiped out by the end of the season simply from the nature of the game and the constant contact nearly every play.

Of course there are very violent, hard hits in hockey, but there are many more in football. Especially the hits that many receivers and running backs endure every game...they are constantly getting rocked at high speeds.

I love hockey more than any other sport by far, but if I had to take a pounding, I'd rather take it on the ice than on the football field.

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As a matter of simple physics, hockey hits are undoubtedly harder than football hits. This has been studied numerous times as well.

There's an unspoken factor here, however, that's lead to football hits being more dangerous and increased neurological damage to football players: using the helmet as a weapon. This has become a rather serious problem in the last handful of years, and is part of why the NFL is starting to crack down this year. This is why despite hockey hits being harder (as a measurement of force), football hits have recently been more dangerous on average.

Edit: There's also the problem of open ice/field hits being more common in football than hockey. This repetitive trauma has a considerable effect as well. Sure, when you throw in hits along the boards, hockey hits happen close to as often, but hits along the boards are significantly different. They can both be more dangerous in the case of an illegal/violent hit, but also less damaging on a legal/safe hit, as the boards can absorb some of the impact.

Edited by Datsyerberger

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HA! that actually made me laugh at how much of a joke that is

As an example, again, simple physics, you're never going to see a hit this hard as a calculation of force in football:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u18CBH2s7-4

On the other hand, these 'softer' but still quite violent hits are common in football:

And unfortunately, these are a problem in football:

Then again, you have incidents like the Cooke on Savard hit in hockey. However, the helmet hits happen more often than those, and those helmets are also extremely dangerous when used as a weapon.

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As others have stated there is not a black in white answer.

I think the hardest of hockey hits are probably harder then the hardest of football hits, but really hard football hits occur much more frequently then really hard hockey hits.

With hits in general in football occurring more often, overall I would say football hits are harder.

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Here's a fun little tool to add to this that'll help those of you who are uncertain on physics to see calculations of hits.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/hockey/checking2.html

If you want to set up an example comparison, you can use Lindros (230 lbs) moving 17mph hitting Tkachuk (220 lbs) moving 14mph to simulate a very high speed football hit.

Then, to take into account average weight differential, you can use Leetch (190 lbs) moving 19mph hitting Sakic (185 lbs) moving 16mph to simulate an average speed open ice hockey hit.

The 230 vs 190 and 220 vs 185 is roughly the same percentile difference as the weight of an average NFL player compared to an average NHL player (~250 average for NFL player vs ~205 for NHL player).

To add some numbers used elsewhere (you can easily calculate this on your own with any number of online calculators), a 200lb hockey player moving 24mph has as much force as a 350lb football player moving 18mph. Again, just another example to put in perspective how much more important speed is in a calcultion of force than mass.

Edited by Datsyerberger
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As others have stated there is not a black in white answer.

I think the hardest of hockey hits are probably harder then the hardest of football hits, but really hard football hits occur much more frequently then really hard hockey hits.

With hits in general in football occurring more often, overall I would say football hits are harder.

Let's also not forget that often times, hockey players are often hit into the boards. Football players don't have to worry about that.

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Ice is also harder than turf

With that being said, I have no ******* clue and am not willing to find out firsthand

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Ice is also harder than turf

With that being said, I have no ******* clue and am not willing to find out firsthand

I guess you're safe by going with, "Either way, it's gonna suck."

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Here's a fun little tool to add to this that'll help those of you who are uncertain on physics to see calculations of hits.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/hockey/checking2.html

If you want to set up an example comparison, you can use Lindros (230 lbs) moving 17mph hitting Tkachuk (220 lbs) moving 14mph to simulate a very high speed football hit.

Then, to take into account average weight differential, you can use Leetch (190 lbs) moving 19mph hitting Sakic (185 lbs) moving 16mph to simulate an average speed open ice hockey hit.

The 230 vs 190 and 220 vs 185 is roughly the same percentile difference as the weight of an average NFL player compared to an average NHL player (~250 average for NFL player vs ~205 for NHL player).

To add some numbers used elsewhere (you can easily calculate this on your own with any number of online calculators), a 200lb hockey player moving 24mph has as much force as a 350lb football player moving 18mph. Again, just another example to put in perspective how much more important speed is in a calcultion of force than mass.

One thing those numbers cannot produce is how much harder it is to line up these perfect simulated hits in hockey compared to football. The speed also comes into play in the matter that it's very rare to see a 100% mass+speed conversion into a hit in hockey, when in football it's a little more common just because the slower speed and the way the game is played(A lot more players, less room etc.).

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One thing those numbers cannot produce is how much harder it is to line up these perfect simulated hits in hockey compared to football. The speed also comes into play in the matter that it's very rare to see a 100% mass+speed conversion into a hit in hockey, when in football it's a little more common just because the slower speed and the way the game is played(A lot more players, less room etc.).

I agree here, again, as I point out a handful of posts above, the average football hit is going to be more solid and happen more frequently than open ice hockey hits. The numbers and tool above are useful for comparing best case scenario hits, however. It's mostly to counter the arguments that the hardest (reasonably clean) hockey hits aren't as hard as the hardest (reasonably clean) football hits based on 'but football players are much larger!'. That's simply a poor understanding of the physics involved.

One thing worth noting is if you watch a highlight reel of the hardest 'clean' hits in the NHL vs hardest 'clean' hits in the NFL, a lot more of the NFL guys get up and walk away from it. NHL guys subjected to a solid open ice hit usually have their day (week/month/season) wrecked.

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