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VM1138

Which Is the Better Team?

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I wouldn't.

Everytime we play them, they seem to bully our team out of the game.

That would be a bad matchup for us physically, especially in the final round of the playoffs against a team that would be super hungry after coming so close last year.

You have to beat the best, that's the way i see it, philly is easily the best team in the east and if detroit can't beat them well i guess they aren't worthy to become champions.

Broken 16 likes this

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Great argument.

You should be a political analyst. :thumbup:

Do I really need to justify that the East is a joke? Islanders, Devils, Sabres, Senators, Leafs, the entire Southeast Division besides choking Washington is mediocre at best. The Penguins are a great hockey team, but their point total is going to be seriously inflated at the end of the season because of the competition they face.

I think the Red Wings are the best team in the league. They play in arguably the toughest division (Pacific is close) and have just three fewer points than the Penguins with three games in-hand. The Red Wings depth is unmatched and we all know Z owns Crosby.

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The only team with similar depth are philly and vancouver, but vancouver have such low lowest level you can't take them as a real good contender, when they are on their game they are scary good but that doesnt happen often enough, boston is another dark horse, they have the goalies and the discipline/structure but doesnt score enough goals.. Philly.. i just get scared of them, they roll all lines and dmen just like detroit does, but they also have a questionmark in goal.

Edited by mindfly

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Do I really need to justify that the East is a joke? Islanders, Devils, Sabres, Senators, Leafs, the entire Southeast Division besides choking Washington is mediocre at best. The Penguins are a great hockey team, but their point total is going to be seriously inflated at the end of the season because of the competition they face.

I think the Red Wings are the best team in the league. They play in arguably the toughest division (Pacific is close) and have just three fewer points than the Penguins with three games in-hand. The Red Wings depth is unmatched and we all know Z owns Crosby.

Winning 12 consecutive games is difficult against any competition.

We've seen the Wings lose to these supbar teams many times before. Strength of schedule is important, but you can't just discredit an entire team's run because they play in a different conference.

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Only good teams can go on those kind of winning streaks.

Didn't Toronto go something like 9-0 to start the season this year?

I'd also like to point out that while Pittsburgh and Detroit have both played relatively weak teams the last 12 games or so, Detroit has had multiple back-to-backs and hardly any rest. Has Pittsburgh played a similar schedule?

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I totally agree there an good team, but to say winning streaks makes a team good instantly is ridiculous. If Pens were to play a team with a shutdown player (Zetterberg / Datsyuk for example) then Crosby streak would end and probably along with their winning streak because hes doing everything for that team right now, playmaking, scoring, playing defense. Philly is the only team I see posing a problem for the Wings because of there depth, goal scorers on 3 lines and a good 4th grind line. Leino would enjoy it im sure, along with Pronger too.

Agree that the Wings could beat the Pens right now for sure (© Homer), and I agree that winning streaks do not make a team good or ensure a good result in the playoffs, but I do think the winning streak is a result of them (or at least Crosby) being good right now, and I think as long as Crosby stays healthy, they'll keep doing well, even if they do slow down. I just think that if you're going to look at how a team is doing now and make a playoffs prediction based on that, you're going to want to take the team's past history into account as well as their current play. So yeah, on one hand, past winning streaks by themselves didn't predict zip for the Caps because it didn't take their history into account, but I think the Pens' current streak, coupled with their recent playoffs history (and that's the important part), can be somewhat insightful for how they'll do later on in the playoffs.

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The only team with similar depth are philly and vancouver, but vancouver have such low lowest level you can't take them as a real good contender, when they are on their game they are scary good but that doesnt happen often enough, boston is another dark horse, they have the goalies and the discipline/structure but doesnt score enough goals.. Philly.. i just get scared of them, they roll all lines and dmen just like detroit does, but they also have a questionmark in goal.

That would scare me most in the playoffs. It seems that every playoff run the Wings run into some nobody goalie who plays out of his mind. It just wouldn't be the playoffs without one of those goalies going deep it seems.

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That would scare me most in the playoffs. It seems that every playoff run the Wings run into some nobody goalie who plays out of his mind. It just wouldn't be the playoffs without one of those goalies going deep it seems.

Plays out of his mind, or the Wings manage to make him look like a Conn Smythe-quality goalie by taking bad shots?

stormboy likes this

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Winning 12 consecutive games is difficult against any competition.

We've seen the Wings lose to these supbar teams many times before. Strength of schedule is important, but you can't just discredit an entire team's run because they play in a different conference.

Agreed. But over the course of 82 games, it is a huge advantage to play against so many subpar teams in the Eastern Conference. I'm not trying to discredit the Pens winning streak; I just don't think when push comes to shove they are a better team than the Red Wings.

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That matters alot come playoff time right ? Isn't that why they play the game.. for the regular season record....

Duh... the President's Trophy is the most strived for trophy in all of sports

where you been?

Edited by scottj

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I think Philly would beat us. Always have a problem with teams with Pronger on em. Hungry from last years loss just like Pittsburgh was. Do not want.

Tho we'd prolly be hungry to after losing in 09'.

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Winning 12 consecutive games is difficult against any competition.

We've seen the Wings lose to these supbar teams many times before. Strength of schedule is important, but you can't just discredit an entire team's run because they play in a different conference.

i agree. LGWers have been saying "LOL east SUX!" every year, and yet the pens beat us in the SCF two years ago.

all it takes is a bad game by your goalie, a out-of-sync night by your forwards, a few defensive gaffes by your d-men, or an out-of-character performance by even a single player on the other team, and you've just lost to a basement-dweller. i think we've all seen this happen to the wings plenty of times. we got blown out by atlanta. and, honestly, i was expecting the wings to lose to the devils the other night, just because they were SUPPOSED to win easily (which they did, and i was glad).

if the pens hadn't gotten off to a rocky start, they'd be so far in first right now it wouldn't be funny. then again, we're not even halfway through the season, and if crosby cools and the other guys don't pick it up, who knows where we'll be in a few months.

also, i don't think anyone's mentioned this yet: what if ovie heats up? washington is still doing well in the standings, and ovie is having a very subpar year goal-wise (i haven't seen them play, only going by stats). they're still very much hanging in there (last night's beating from the rangers notwithstanding) and if ovie starts netting goals things could go their way in a hurry.

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It doesn't really matter which team is the best right now. The best team in June is all that matters.

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I wouldn't.

Everytime we play them, they seem to bully our team out of the game.

That would be a bad matchup for us physically, especially in the final round of the playoffs against a team that would be super hungry after coming so close last year.

Detroit lost the last game against Philly due to Osgood's poor goaltending.

The next game they won. Philly has not won in the Joe since the mid 90s. What makes you think they "bully" us out of anything?

Original-Six likes this

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i agree. LGWers have been saying "LOL east SUX!" every year, and yet the pens beat us in the SCF two years ago.

That doesn't prove that the East doesn't suck... all it proves is that the East has at least one really good team, which does not automatically get them out of the running for suck.

if the pens hadn't gotten off to a rocky start, they'd be so far in first right now it wouldn't be funny. then again, we're not even halfway through the season, and if crosby cools and the other guys don't pick it up, who knows where we'll be in a few months.

That's such a ridiculous thing to say... if the Wings got off to an even better start they would be so far in first it wouldn't be funny. If the Islanders didn't suck dick they wouldn't be in last place... fact is it happened.

If Detroit would have played a lllliiiillll bit better in the SCFs of 09 then they would have won, but they didn't. So it doesn't matter.

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Detroit lost the last game against Philly due to Osgood's poor goaltending.

The next game they won. Philly has not won in the Joe since the mid 90s. What makes you think they "bully" us out of anything?

Blaming it on the goaltending is getting kind of lame.

I remember last year Carcillo got in the heads of several of our players, especially Homer. Then there was that game in 2007, where we got blown out and pussed out when the Flyers challenged us physically.

They'll play us the same way the Ducks will, except they have more pests and fighters than the Ducks, and are a lot more talented. Not to mention, it would be the last series of the playoffs. Not the time you want to play an extremely physical team.

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If I had a choice, I wouldnt want Philly either. Richards is the same ilk of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and they are really physical, they have a great defence, we have the goaltending edge. It'd be interesting, then again playoffs are so far off it's kinda funny to be talking about it now.

Detroit is definately the best team in the West, no questions asked. Right now that's all that matters to me.

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i agree. LGWers have been saying "LOL east SUX!" every year, and yet the pens beat us in the SCF two years ago.

all it takes is a bad game by your goalie, a out-of-sync night by your forwards, a few defensive gaffes by your d-men, or an out-of-character performance by even a single player on the other team, and you've just lost to a basement-dweller. i think we've all seen this happen to the wings plenty of times. we got blown out by atlanta. and, honestly, i was expecting the wings to lose to the devils the other night, just because they were SUPPOSED to win easily (which they did, and i was glad).

if the pens hadn't gotten off to a rocky start, they'd be so far in first right now it wouldn't be funny. then again, we're not even halfway through the season, and if crosby cools and the other guys don't pick it up, who knows where we'll be in a few months.

also, i don't think anyone's mentioned this yet: what if ovie heats up? washington is still doing well in the standings, and ovie is having a very subpar year goal-wise (i haven't seen them play, only going by stats). they're still very much hanging in there (last night's beating from the rangers notwithstanding) and if ovie starts netting goals things could go their way in a hurry.

The Pens beat us in 09 because they clearly were the better team. And IF they hd won all of there first 20 games they would be far out in front.

Your logic is amazing.

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The Pens beat us in 09 because they clearly were the better team.

not only that, but because they were from the East, the Eastern conference can't suck anymore... apparently

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A little breakdown on the top teams. (I didn't include Washington, they're playing like garbage and have dropped to 9th in point%)

There are 9 teams currently .500 or under in point%. 12 teams at .600 or over. The other 9 in between.

Philly (19-7-5, 43 pts, 3rd, 69.4%)

> .500: 11-0-2 (92.3%)

< .600: 5-5-1 (50%)

Middle: 3-2-2 (57.1%)

Pitt (21-8-2, 44 pts, 2nd, 71%)

> .500: 12-1-0 (92.3%)

< .600: 5-6-0 (45.5%)

Middle: 4-1-2 (71.4%)

Detroit (19-6-3, 41 pts, 1st, 73.2%)

> .500: 6-0-0 (100%)

< .600: 4-4-1 (50%)

Middle: 9-2-2 (76.9%)

All three are dominating the teams they should be, and playing about even against the other top teams. Philly drops off much more against the middle teams. Philly and Pittsburgh have played a lot more bad teams, but also a couple more against the better teams. Detroit has played fewer road games (12 vs 14 for Philly, 15 for Pitt). Philly has played one more home game than both Pitt and Detroit. All three teams are playing well home and away, though Pitt and Philly have been significantly better on the road than at home. (Both around 65% home, 75% away. Wings are about 75% at home, 71% away.)

Take it for what you will.

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Detroit lost the last game against Philly due to Osgood's poor goaltending.

The next game they won. Philly has not won in the Joe since the mid 90s. What makes you think they "bully" us out of anything?

Right. If I remember correctly, the Wings had no chance against the Flyers because the Legion of Doom (seriously the stupidest line name ever) were gonna crush the puny Wings.

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Right. If I remember correctly, the Wings had no chance against the Flyers because the Legion of Doom (seriously the stupidest line name ever) were gonna crush the puny Wings.

You're gonna compare this soft Wings team to the one we had in 97 with the likes of Kocur, McCarty, Shanny, Lapointe and Rouse?

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The Pens beat us in 09 because they clearly were the better team. And IF they hd won all of there first 20 games they would be far out in front.

Your logic is amazing.

I don't think they were clearly the better team. They eked out a come from behind win in a series that was nearly erased by Lidstrom in the closing seconds of the series. Detroit was tired, Pittsburgh got lucky a few times and held on just a second or so long enough.

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