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Guest Crymson

Hudler's Future

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This is why it is pointless to debate you.

You go by "projections" of small samples to make your point look better.

When you have to take those small samples based on him playing on the same line as the best overall player in the game, then you have a problem.

Ok, so remove all of the games Franzen played with Datsyuk. That's about half of his goals and points this season in the time spent before December 22th, as well as the few games after the HDC game was broken up. So Franzen has ~25 points in about 40-45 games. Take Hudler's Datsyuk time away, and it's 23 in 62. So Franzen, who plays about 50% more, scored about 50% more without Datsyuk. But Hudler was far better WITH Datsyuk. So why are we wasting that spot on Franzen?

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Guest Crymson

Because, as I said, Franzen can and should do much, much better.

But no, an 11 game sample is definitive proof of performance for any player!

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Ok, so remove all of the games Franzen played with Datsyuk. That's about half of his goals and points this season in the time spent before December 22th, as well as the few games after the HDC game was broken up. So Franzen has ~25 points in about 40-45 games. Take Hudler's Datsyuk time away, and it's 23 in 62. So Franzen, who plays about 50% more, scored about 50% more without Datsyuk. But Hudler was far better WITH Datsyuk. So why are we wasting that spot on Franzen?

So Hudler can only perform when being put on the same line as Datsyuk?

That is an issue. We already have a player who is in that position (Holmstrom) and it handcuffs the lines as it is.

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Why do you want a gritty, hard-working player like Cleary gone?

Because he has progressively has gotten worse

when you have to work that hard to justify a player even being on the roster, he most likely shouldn't be there

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Guest Crymson

Because he has progressively has gotten worse

when you have to work that hard to justify a player even being on the roster, he most likely shouldn't be there

He was #2 in goal scoring on the team this year, and he probably would have been #1 if he hadn't been hit in the ankle with a slapshot. He's fast, he hits hard, he's great defensively, and he never takes a shift off; indeed, I think he's one of the hardest-working players in the league when he's on the ice. He was, in this season, one of our best forwards.

Were you even paying attention during the regular season? I don't see how you could have made this statement if you'd actually been watching the games.

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I think at this point Hudler would do better on a lower pressure team with a greater need for offensive vision on the wing. Part of the problem with Hudler on this team is that we don't really have a spot in the lineup where Hudler fits. There are other teams that are in much greater need for a player of his role/talents, so at this point it might be in our best interest to get what we can for him and use the additional cap space to fill different roles.

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Hudler still performed at a 42 point pace for 82 games. Compare that to Franzen's 58 point pace and it doesn't look so bad when you look at the salaries of $4.9 vs $2.9 mil. Keep in mind, Hudler produced 59 points when he was being paid $0.9 mil.

I say keep him with Datsyuk for 82 games next season. Or trade him after 60.

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He was #2 in goal scoring on the team this year, and he probably would have been #1 if he hadn't been hit in the ankle with a slapshot. He's fast, he hits hard, he's great defensively, and he never takes a shift off; indeed, I think he's one of the hardest-working players in the league when he's on the ice. He was, in this season, one of our best forwards.

Were you even paying attention during the regular season? I don't see how you could have made this statement if you'd actually been watching the games.

Sorry for having a difference of opinion, I watched every game this year and since he came back from the injury was nothing special. He certainly was not one of our best forward nor did he look like hwas working hard (especially in the playoffs) of course on here apparently we don't allow others to have their own opinions. Cleary is the most overrated player by LGW

also my 2nd statement was meant about hudler

Edited by ben_usmc

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Because he has progressively has gotten worse

when you have to work that hard to justify a player even being on the roster, he most likely shouldn't be there

G.T.F.O.....

So what exactly is your rationale here?? Hard working players that gut it out and command respect from the locker room and the coach don't belong? Ahh, I finally understand your first post now..... ph34r.gif

Actually wtf is going on??? More Cleary hate? :lol:

Cleary is the most overrated player by LGW

Don't you ever steal this award away from Bertuzzi or Happy Huds from this offseason. Truthfully, you saying you watched EVERY single game makes your "opinions" seem quite a bit off. Oh well, guess I had blinders on to everyone but Datsyuk or Hank and can't appreciate the hard working players that you need on a team.....

And if you think saying "hard working" for Danny is something that shouldn't have him on the team then this is going even further off track man. Seriously.

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What did he say that was so terrible?

"Let them think what they want to. For me, the main thing is that I have been given the opportunity to reach a new level of my career. Understand, I didn't think of money in general this summer. I received a good contract, and could have done so in the NHL: I had been assured that arbitration would settle the dispute with Detroit to my advantage. I wanted another. With the Wings, though I won the Stanley Cup, I wasn't a leading part of the team. More likely, 'dragged a grand piano.' And now I would like not only victories, but also direct participation in them. To leave the bench on the first line, the majority of the time, to hammer in key goals. I want to leave Dynamo on that level."

This, I took it as him saying that the Wings were holding back his "talent". You have to earn that top line spot. Since his return he has not shown he deserves to be there, and I bet he still thinks he deserves to start on the first line.

And I still say this was about money, he was on a Stanley Cup winning team so he thought that automatically earned him more money. Again, you need to prove your worth both on the ice and monetarily. Just my take on him.

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Sorry for having a difference of opinion, I watched every game this year and since he came back from the injury was nothing special. He certainly was not one of our best forward nor did he look like hwas working hard (especially in the playoffs) of course on here apparently we don't allow others to have their own opinions. Cleary is the most overrated player by LGW

also my 2nd statement was meant about hudler

That title belongs to Eaves or Stuart.

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Guest Shoreline

Because he has progressively has gotten worse

when you have to work that hard to justify a player even being on the roster, he most likely shouldn't be there

Do we have a candidate for "worst post of the year" award?

I need not comment in the fashion I wanted to since others put it in the same baffled outrage I would have, but what in gods name were you thinking.. progressively worse yet being increasingly more productive? :hysterical:

It's not about saying something unpopular.. but saying something extremely stupid.

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G.T.F.O.....

So what exactly is your rationale here?? Hard working players that gut it out and command respect from the locker room and the coach don't belong? Ahh, I finally understand your first post now..... ph34r.gif

Actually wtf is going on??? More Cleary hate? :lol:

Don't you ever steal this award away from Bertuzzi or Happy Huds from this offseason. Truthfully, you saying you watched EVERY single game makes your "opinions" seem quite a bit off. Oh well, guess I had blinders on to everyone but Datsyuk or Hank and can't appreciate the hard working players that you need on a team.....

And if you think saying "hard working" for Danny is something that shouldn't have him on the team then this is going even further off track man. Seriously.

I didn't think Bertuzzi was overrated by fans on here (most thought eh), the coaching staff is a different story though. I seriously was just very unimpressed by Cleary, maybe it was the injures that caught up to him, but manly in the playoffs not only did I feel like he wasn't playing up to his capabilities, he actually became a liability on the ice. He wasn't Hudler bad, but when he was on the ice you could count on him turning it over.

I don't hate cleary and wouldn't be upset if we kept him, because every player should be allowed a down year, I'm just saying if we could trade him away I wouldn't shed a tear.

Do we have a candidate for "worst post of the year" award?

I need not comment in the fashion I wanted to since others put it in the same baffled outrage I would have, but what in gods name were you thinking.. progressively worse yet being increasingly more productive? :hysterical:

It's not about saying something unpopular.. but saying something extremely stupid.

Purely going by point production is the reason we had a scrub like Jason Williams playing for our team at one point,they only tell half of a story. He was a scoring monster before he went down, but when he came back he wasn't nearly as effective. I know he'll be back next year and hope he can kick it back up a gear (IMO), but if he can't don't expect me to be a person saying I told you so or anything, I'd much rather eat crow.

That title belongs to Eaves or Stuart.

post season wise it could go to A LOT of players

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Guest stinky fish taco

was cleary injured in the playoffs? (prior to the hudler hit)

he was absolutely terrible.

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This, I took it as him saying that the Wings were holding back his "talent". You have to earn that top line spot. Since his return he has not shown he deserves to be there, and I bet he still thinks he deserves to start on the first line.

And I still say this was about money, he was on a Stanley Cup winning team so he thought that automatically earned him more money. Again, you need to prove your worth both on the ice and monetarily. Just my take on him.

You have a context issue.

The full quote is:

"Let them think what they want to. For me, the main thing is that I have been given the opportunity to reach a new level of my career. Understand, I didn't think of money in general this summer. I received a good contract, and could have done so in the NHL: I had been assured that arbitration would settle the dispute with Detroit to my advantage. I wanted another. With the Wings, though I won the Stanley Cup, I wasn't a leading part of the team. More likely, 'dragged a grand piano.' And now I would like not only victories, but also direct participation in them. To leave the bench on the first line, the majority of the time, to hammer in key goals. I want to leave Dynamo on that level."

But the two parts you brought up should be pulled out as such:

With the Wings, though I won the Stanley Cup, I wasn't a leading part of the team.

To leave the bench on the first line, the majority of the time, to hammer in key goals. I want to leave Dynamo on that level."

He's basically saying that he didn't feel that the existing situation in Detroit would allow him to develop to the level he wants to be at, and to develop into a player who can be relied upon by his team for offense. It's not "I should have been given 20 minutes a game in all of the best situations."

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You have a context issue.

The full quote is:

But the two parts you brought up should be pulled out as such:

He's basically saying that he didn't feel that the existing situation in Detroit would allow him to develop to the level he wants to be at, and to develop into a player who can be relied upon by his team for offense. It's not "I should have been given 20 minutes a game in all of the best situations."

Well, then let him go to another team where he can develop to the level he wants to be at. He is not gonna be that player here. See ya later Hudler! I hope beyond hope that he goes somewhere and becomes a great player. He just isn't gonna do that here, he has been given chances from line 1 to line 4, he stunk... Give it up, it's over, let go, nobody listen's to techno...

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was cleary injured in the playoffs? (prior to the hudler hit)

he was absolutely terrible.

Do you ask this about all the Wings players? Because all you ever post is crap about how terrible they are, or useless, or suck. Just give it up, I miss mindfly. At least he was funny with the negative crap

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He produced at a rate that would produce 30 goals and 75 assists in 82 games. Franzen has only once performed that well offensively; the 09-10 playoffs. Who was he playing with? He also produced points at a higher rate than Datsyuk did while they were together.

Deal with it. When Hudler is placed in a top-six role, he excels. This has been the case time and time again. How well would the Sedin twins do on a checking line? Not well? How about Crosby? Savard? Kovalchuk? Kane? Thornton? None of these guys would do well on a checking line with checking line wingers/center. They might score some points, but not at their current level. Why do you expect Hudler to do so well? People around here say I think he's some kind of otherwordly talent; yet I'm not the one who expects such ridiculousness from him. I fully realize that playing in a checking role will limit your offense, unlike many here.

Yet you think he can score 105 points over 82 games if he played with Datsyuk, who btw has topped out at 97.

So you're telling me that this season, when Hudler was excellent when given top-six time, proved he doesn't excel in a top-six role? Sure, anyone can score points playing with Datsyuk. But there's a difference between being an excellent scoring winger with Datsyuk and just grinding out a few points. In the 17 games prior to Datsyuk's return, Hudler scored 12 points. That's still a 60-point pace. So over 28 games, that's pace for almost 80 points. 28 games is a third of a season, so it's not really a short period of time. You obviously dislike him because he's not Eric Lindros, Gary Roberts or Keith Tkachuk, but he is still a skilled forward and given top-six time will provide plenty of offense.

Well, if we're looking at this season, Franzen never had an 11-game stretch or longer where he managed better than a point-per-game.

Furthermore, if you project Hudler's scoring stats to Franzen's ES and PP TOI, Hudler ends up with 13 goals and 36 assists for 49 points, compared to Franzen's 28-27-55. One of them spent most of the year with one of the world's three best centers. The other is Jiri Hudler.

Hudler from December 27th to Feb 5th: 17 GP, 3g-9a-12pt, ATOI 15:52

Seems like he was hardly having trouble with his offense before he was placed on Datsyuk's line.

I'm a little confused. Hudler only played 11 games in a top 6 role?

Also, you mention stats to support Hudler from previous seasons, yet when people show stats to support franzen you disregard them.

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Guest stinky fish taco

Do you ask this about all the Wings players? Because all you ever post is crap about how terrible they are, or useless, or suck. Just give it up, I miss mindfly. At least he was funny with the negative crap

cool story. can you answer the question?

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