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Guest Crymson

Hudler's Future

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If he is going to be her he needs to play in the top 6 with either Pav or Z. Im tired of having Pav and Z playing with older players with suspect top 6 ability. If Huds is here start the season with him playing with Z and Clears and have Pav with Fil and Franzen. If Hudler still struggles then something needs to be done. But we need to have 2 really skilled dominant lines. I may get flamed for this post, but I do honestly believe Huds has the ability to be a gamebreaker (especially if he worked on his skating, and you know actually worked hard). But I honestly do believe he would work hard playing with skilled guys like Z and Clears

When exactly has Hudler shown first/second line ability?

13, 40, 93, 96, 44, 11, possibly 51... no room for a "maybe" there.

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When exactly has Hudler shown first/second line ability?

13, 40, 93, 96, 44, 11, possibly 51... no room for a "maybe" there.

If you take just the second half of this season, how many of those players were better than Hudler? I count two.

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If you take just the second half of this season, how many of those players were better than Hudler? I count two.

How much of that was the work of Datsyuk and Cleary?

And he was totally worthless in the first half and in the playoffs.

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How much of that was the work of Datsyuk and Cleary?

And he was totally worthless in the first half and in the playoffs.

Agreed. I was looking for him to step up in the playoffs, but he did the exact opposite. Didn't even notice he was playing most of the playoffs.

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When exactly has Hudler shown first/second line ability?

13, 40, 93, 96, 44, 11, possibly 51... no room for a "maybe" there.

I like a top 6 of Dats, Z, Mule, Fil, Cleary, and Hudler. You can argue and say what you will and use some stats from this year, but this top six is a hell of a lot better than Dats, Z, Mule, Homer, Bert, and Clears. If you dont think so your crazy. And you can counter by saying well then our third bottem six has bad depth and looks for 3rd and 4th lines. That is exactly the problem with Holmstrom. Holmer absolutely kills our line combos cause he can't play in the bottom six cause he is slow, and bad defensively. But he also isn't good in the top six cause he slows down a guy like Datsyuk. If you gave me an option of having a line of Mule-Datsyuk-Huds or those two and Homer instead of Huds ill take the line with Huds 10 out of ten. He has the skill and the ability to play with top end players and absolutely rip it up.

a big simple problem with this team is Holmstrom as he affects the way we can put together our lines, as Babs refuses to split up Dats and Homer, and have Homer as a scratch. Honestly I am not a Homer hater i honestly really like the guy its just hard for him to fit in 5 on 5 as he brings down our top lines, and takes energy out of our bottom six players. Yes you can say well stick him on 4th line and make him a specialist, but the problem is that this team has the ability to have a 4th line of Mursak-Helm-Eaves and honestly I cannot say there is a better 4th line in hockey and you'd be crazy not to want to keep them as a 4th lines. I know it is very unrealistic and is NOT going to happen but if the Wings are able and willing to make Homer there 13th forward this team can be a serious force.

You do this and sign Vernon Fiddler or Brooks Laich. Laich preferably although he will cost more. You spend the rest of the cap space to shore up the d-fence i'm not going to go into specific players as i'm only looking at the forwards.

You run these lines and you will be successful.....

Fil- Dats- Mule... This line would absolutely dominate as Fil and Dats work there magic and Mule finishes. (They will have the puck all shift... Seriously)

Huds-Z-Cleary... This is a very strong second line that posseses skill and awesome hockey IQ as well as some grit and speed with Cleary. (We all know how good Z is controlling the puck in the corners and down low, he can find Huds and Huds does have a good shot)

Bert- Laich or Fiddler- Abby... This line posses speed and size and the ability to grind it out. With Fiddler you have a good defensive forward and a good faceoff man (something we lacked vs San Jose). Laich provides more offense, but still is a very good 2-way forward. You add Bert and Abby to this and you have a big line that can grind you down low and has the ability to pich in with some offense.

Mursak-Helm-Eaves... All i can say is NIGHTMARE. Plain and simple this is an awesome line.

As well if there needs to be a shake up within the top six I feel that the wingers between both Datsyuk and Z can be switched. So im perfectly happy with it being the lines above or Huds-Dats-Cleary and Fil-Z-Mule. Either way i feel that is a very good group of forwards. Sorry for the rant. Add your suggestions good or bad. Thanks LGW

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How much of that was the work of Datsyuk and Cleary?

And he was totally worthless in the first half and in the playoffs.

Honestly yes of course it had a lot to do with those two, but you can say that with a almost any top six forward. To be good you need players around you, except for maybe a few (Dats, Crosby, maybe OV). Anyways what im trying to say is that Hudler has great skill, but he is not a "I'm gonna dangle the whole team and score" type player. He's a player that is very good when he plays with other good players. So why on earth would you put him with two guys like miller and Abby? Of course he wont do anything he isn't that type of player. So what im saying is okay if you dont want him playing in the top six with our best players then we need to get rid of him because he will be useless, but if you play him with are best players he will earn his money. IMO opinion if he plays with either Dats or Z all year he will be a steal at 2.85 per. (I know i may get flamed for that last comment which is understandable for his play at the end. This is just the way I view Happy Hudler)

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How much of that was the work of Datsyuk and Cleary?

And he was totally worthless in the first half and in the playoffs.

He played 11 games with Datsyuk and Cleary, and led the team in scoring during that period. His offense was on pace for 105 points.

In the first 30 games of the season, he was not very effective. But he also was playing with Modano, who at almost no point this season has been effective, and whose play style does not work with Hudler's play style. One works on rushing and a quick shot, the other works on setting up an offense and trying to find or create a hole in the defense.

Hudler scored 12 points in 17 games before he played with Datsyuk. This isn't "no points in all games not played alongside Pavel Datsyuk" but rather that he was already doing well and then started doing much better when placed with Datsyuk, proving the idea that he could excel on the first line.

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Mike Modano? Hello? Modano made nearly $2m and outside of a stretch of seven or 8 games this season played at an AHL level. Modano was the worst forward to play for the Wings this season, including call-ups, and the worst by salary.

As for the playoffs, Hudler had an excellent first-round. In the second round, he wasn't as good but Filppula was no better through the first few games. And Hudler played very well in the last couple of games. It was brought up that he was a minus in games six and seven. In game six, it's because he was tying up the guy going to the net and then diving into the net to try and stop the puck that Howard couldn't hold on to. In game seven, he was on the ice for Couture's goal, which Howard should have been set and ready to react to but wasn't, and Zetterberg handed an open Couture the puck on a clearing attempt. Clearly that's all Hudler's fault. Just more examples of how plus-minus is not actually representative of the player's performance.

Hudler was skating in a straight line; Cleary skated into him when trying to cut back towards the center of the ice.

As for Filppula having greater offensive capability... just no. Flip is better defensively and a better skater, he might be a better player...but he is not better offensively. Not even close. It's like Ron Francis and Adam Oates.

Filppula is at the very least a level above Hudler. Look at it this way: Would other teams make a trade for Filppula? Hell yes - would probably get back a decent player of the same caliber in return. If Filppula was a UFA would he get better offers from around the league than what the Wings pay him? Most likely. On the contrary, I don't think any team would trade much if anything for Hudler, and he would command very little on the open market. There's not much of a comparison to make - Flip is easily a 2nd line player, Huds is 3rd, 4th line, or a scratch....

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He played 11 games with Datsyuk and Cleary, and led the team in scoring during that period. His offense was on pace for 105 points.

In the first 30 games of the season, he was not very effective. But he also was playing with Modano, who at almost no point this season has been effective, and whose play style does not work with Hudler's play style. One works on rushing and a quick shot, the other works on setting up an offense and trying to find or create a hole in the defense.

Hudler scored 12 points in 17 games before he played with Datsyuk. This isn't "no points in all games not played alongside Pavel Datsyuk" but rather that he was already doing well and then started doing much better when placed with Datsyuk, proving the idea that he could excel on the first line.

Whats your opinion of the top six below compared to the top six we used this year?

Fil-Dats-Franzen

Huds-Z-Cleary

or

Huds-Dats-Cleary

Fil-Z-Franzen

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Whats your opinion of the top six below compared to the top six we used this year?

Fil-Dats-Franzen

Huds-Z-Cleary

or

Huds-Dats-Cleary

Fil-Z-Franzen

I like the look, except for the fact that as mentioned earlier, Holmstrom breaks the bottom six. Assuming we lose Draper, Modano, and Miller and gain Mursak and Emmerton, these are the lines I would roll.

Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary

Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Abdelkader/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

The top six forwards in ice time would be those you mentioned, but you have to make the lines work also. Trying to shoehorn Homer into that bottom six wrecks it.

You can also, of course, run with:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Filppula/Cleary

Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

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I like the look, except for the fact that as mentioned earlier, Holmstrom breaks the bottom six. Assuming we lose Draper, Modano, and Miller and gain Mursak and Emmerton, these are the lines I would roll.

Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary

Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Abdelkader/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

The top six forwards in ice time would be those you mentioned, but you have to make the lines work also. Trying to shoehorn Homer into that bottom six wrecks it.

You can also, of course, run with:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Filppula/Cleary

Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

I know this is almost 100 hundred percent not gona happen, but wouldn't simply scratching Homer make this team a lot better, and make line combos so much easier? Yes we lose his net front presence on the PP, but i believe that Mule should get back to doing that (2008 style) and Cleary is also very good at it. As well if we can get a guy like Brooks Laich I believe that he is someone that can play that role (I could be wrong about that though).

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A player like Homer is invaluable. More than 90% of teams don't possess a player willing to get beaten to death in front of the net for tips. Buffugaly Googaly shoulda been picked up. That would be a nice replacement.

I am not for getting rid of Homer, nor do I think it would be a good thing for this team.

My sister ran into Hudler 2 nights ago at some bar (don't remember where she said it was). She went up and said she thought the wings played well and was sorry they lost. He was very appreciative, she said.

I asked if she said "why don't you shoot the ******* puck?" She didn't ask that though LOL

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He played 11 games with Datsyuk and Cleary, and led the team in scoring during that period. His offense was on pace for 105 points.

In the first 30 games of the season, he was not very effective. But he also was playing with Modano, who at almost no point this season has been effective, and whose play style does not work with Hudler's play style. One works on rushing and a quick shot, the other works on setting up an offense and trying to find or create a hole in the defense.

Hudler scored 12 points in 17 games before he played with Datsyuk. This isn't "no points in all games not played alongside Pavel Datsyuk" but rather that he was already doing well and then started doing much better when placed with Datsyuk, proving the idea that he could excel on the first line.

You're ignoring the fact that he's one of the most one-dimensional players in the league, even more so than Holmstrom. Holmstrom can at least cycle the puck, protect it and go to work in the corners. He can also hit, and does. Hudler can pass and shoot, and that's all. If you didn't notice, he was belted off the puck repeatedly throughout the course of the year, and it became an epidemic against the Sharks. Further, his speed is really only a tad better than Holmstrom's, and whereas Holmstrom is mediocre on defense, Hudler is absolutely horrible.

Hudler is a liability when he's playing more than a limited amount of minutes.

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A lot of people really seem to under-appreciate Homer's contributions.

He's still one of our best forwards working the puck in the corners. His vision, passing, and hockey sense are much better than he gets credit for. He's a great compliment to skill players like Pav, Hank, Flip, Hudler, and Mule.

With the roster we have, it's tough to find real good combinations, but it's not because of Homer. At least not to any greater extent than it is Hudler, Flip, Cleary, or Bert (and Modano this year). Flip and Cleary will fit in the bottom 6, but at the expense of their offense, and that also leaves a very slow and defensively weak top 6. Homer doesn't really work in the bottom 6 at all. Bert is mostly wasted too, though he could maybe bring some toughness. Hudler doesn't work very well, though he could add some scoring threat like he did with Helm and Maltby in 08.

You can replace any one of those guys with someone else and get line combinations that look better. We have 5 guys who need to be in the top 6 (at least for offense, and/or to earn their salary), but only 3 open spots.

We can get a 9th (like we tried to do with Modano, and Willy and Leino the year before) and try to build 3 lines. We can suffer some guys being in 'bad' spots, and juggle around depending on injuries and who's hot (like we did this year). We can try to move some guys for someone that 'fits' better, but likely at the cost of depth and flexibility.

You can't build a perfect roster that's guaranteed a Cup. Every option has its pros and cons.

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A lot of people really seem to under-appreciate Homer's contributions.

He's still one of our best forwards working the puck in the corners. His vision, passing, and hockey sense are much better than he gets credit for. He's a great compliment to skill players like Pav, Hank, Flip, Hudler, and Mule.

With the roster we have, it's tough to find real good combinations, but it's not because of Homer. At least not to any greater extent than it is Hudler, Flip, Cleary, or Bert (and Modano this year). Flip and Cleary will fit in the bottom 6, but at the expense of their offense, and that also leaves a very slow and defensively weak top 6. Homer doesn't really work in the bottom 6 at all. Bert is mostly wasted too, though he could maybe bring some toughness. Hudler doesn't work very well, though he could add some scoring threat like he did with Helm and Maltby in 08.

You can replace any one of those guys with someone else and get line combinations that look better. We have 5 guys who need to be in the top 6 (at least for offense, and/or to earn their salary), but only 3 open spots.

We can get a 9th (like we tried to do with Modano, and Willy and Leino the year before) and try to build 3 lines. We can suffer some guys being in 'bad' spots, and juggle around depending on injuries and who's hot (like we did this year). We can try to move some guys for someone that 'fits' better, but likely at the cost of depth and flexibility.

You can't build a perfect roster that's guaranteed a Cup. Every option has its pros and cons.

It's like I keep saying. Homer is not a top-six forward, but he has to be on a scoring line because otherwise he is useless. So we put him in a spot where he can succeed and help his line out. Homer has the largest disparity between his actual ability and his effectiveness that I have ever seen from a hockey player. This is mainly because of the chemistry he and Dats have developed; and that is why he has to be on Dats' line next season.

The fourth line has to be Mursak/Helm/Eaves. It keeps the same attitude as Draper/Helm/Eaves and has the speed and grit. I'd rather have Abby on the fourth line, but that line combo is too good a combination to split. Maybe move up Helm, stick in Emmerton on the bottom line. But that doesn't work so well because while Emmerton can play some D, he's not really gritty.

So put it together like this:

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Cleary/Zetterberg/Hudler

Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

Emmerton

That puts Homer on a line that has been proven to work, the second and third line work, and the fourth line worked great with Draper so it should work as well with Mursak. Emmerton is a good enough all-around player that he can step in pretty much anywhere, although I might shift Abby down to the fourth line if Helm went out.

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Homer is sometimes an anchor at even strength, but he's still capable of producing there. Do note the Wings' game-winners in Games 5 and 6 against the Sharks. He was more effective than any of the other Wings' forwards not named Zetterberg and Datsyuk in that series.

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It's like I keep saying. Homer is not a top-six forward, but he has to be on a scoring line because otherwise he is useless. So we put him in a spot where he can succeed and help his line out. Homer has the largest disparity between his actual ability and his effectiveness that I have ever seen from a hockey player. This is mainly because of the chemistry he and Dats have developed; and that is why he has to be on Dats' line next season.

The fourth line has to be Mursak/Helm/Eaves. It keeps the same attitude as Draper/Helm/Eaves and has the speed and grit. I'd rather have Abby on the fourth line, but that line combo is too good a combination to split. Maybe move up Helm, stick in Emmerton on the bottom line. But that doesn't work so well because while Emmerton can play some D, he's not really gritty.

So put it together like this:

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Cleary/Zetterberg/Hudler

Franzen/Abdelkader/Bertuzzi

Mursak/Helm/Eaves

Emmerton

That puts Homer on a line that has been proven to work, the second and third line work, and the fourth line worked great with Draper so it should work as well with Mursak. Emmerton is a good enough all-around player that he can step in pretty much anywhere, although I might shift Abby down to the fourth line if Helm went out.

Very good forward lines if only we could replace that third line center spot with a guy like Brooks Laich

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Very good forward lines if only we could replace that third line center spot with a guy like Brooks Laich

Abdelkader is not actually far behind Laich in offensive ability. They scored almost the same goals-per-minute rate at even strength, and Laich had a higher assist rate largely due to playing on the second line of an offensively powerful team while Abdelkader was primarily a fourth-liner. Abby is also more physical than Laich, and three years younger. Abdelkader has displayed chemistry with Franzen and Bertuzzi, showing that it can be a good "power" line if needed. So I don't think adding Laich is a necessary move.

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Hudler and Ericsson for Bogo? I love Huds and I'd bite for that but isn't Ericsson a free agent now? Not to highjack the thread but he breeds to be gone one way or another.

I don't know where the original poster came up with that proposed Bogosian deal, but there is no chance in hell Atlanta would do that.

I would love to see Bogosian acquired over the summer, but it would take Filppula, a pick and prospect to even get the Thrashers interested. Hudler and Ericsson would get Holland laughed at.

Edited by GoWings1905

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I don't know where the original poster came up with that proposed Bogosian deal, but there is no chance in hell Atlanta would do that.

I would love to see Bogosian acquired over the summer, but it would take Filppula, a pick and prospect to even get the Thrashers interested. Hudler and Ericsson would get Holland laughed at.

I wouldn't mind having Bogosian, but he is probably the most overrated player on this board. He's already had a couple of serious injuries and he has not really shown himself to be anything special. He's got some decent offensive skills and can play physical but is not that good on the back end. You could get Mike Green ($5.25m) or go for Bogo (RFA, coming off $3.75m EL contract) for probably the same or similar assets. Green is about five years older than Bogosian. They play basically similar styles.

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Hudler is NOT a top 6 forward folks. Replay game 7 if you have any doubt about that. The guy was a healthy scratch for half of the playoff games this year (and many of the regular season games) - for a good reason. I think I'm going with Babs on this one.....

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Hudler is NOT a top 6 forward folks. Replay game 7 if you have any doubt about that. The guy was a healthy scratch for half of the playoff games this year (and many of the regular season games) - for a good reason. I think I'm going with Babs on this one.....

He was a healthy scratch for one playoff game. One.

He was scratched for a few games early in the season, and missed a few near the end with the flu.

If Hudler was given the same kind of leeway Franzen gets on poor performance, he would never have been scratched.

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He was a healthy scratch for one playoff game. One.

He was scratched for a few games early in the season, and missed a few near the end with the flu.

If Hudler was given the same kind of leeway Franzen gets on poor performance, he would never have been scratched.

Heh my bad - thought he was scratched for 3 PO games - guess I'm not noticing him out there.

I'll give you that Franzen gets a healthy dose of leeway, but when on him game, Mule is a totally different level of player than Hudler can ever be.

Nothing personal against the guy, but he has been with the Wings organization long enough to figure he is never going to be a top 1-2 line guy. Personally, I'd rather experiment with someone else, and let him get a fresh shot at it somewhere else....

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