Homer needs to be a 4th liner/PP specialist next season..

[Guest blueadams]

...am I alone in thinking that this whole we "must have a net-front presence - that is a bad skater and/or possesses limited offensive skills - on each scoring line" thing is starting to hurt the production of our top lines? and I'm not just talking about point-production either. it was almost laughable watching homer and bert trying to catch up with Heatley, Couture, Clowe, etc. on the back-check. I'd like to hear the board's thoughts on this.

If I'm Babs/Holland, after re-signing or replacing Ericsson, I'm putting most of our available cap-space towards an elite top-six forward (leaving a little bit to resign Eaves, Miller or a more physical replacement). Then I'm rolling these lines, and scratching worthless Bertuzzi on most nights.

Filppula-Datsyuk-Franzen

Hudler-Zetterberg-*?*

Cleary-Helm-Eaves/Miller/*?*

Mursak-Abdelkader-Holmstrom

Bertuzzi

[Z and D for the C 712]

...am I alone in thinking that this whole we "must have a net-front presence - that is a bad skater and/or possesses limited offensive skills - on each scoring line" thing is starting to hurt the production of our top lines?

God no. I can't stand this philosophy on lines, where you have two guys who control the puck and the other sits in front of the net. It's like we're institutionally shorthanded.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

Yeah I somewhat agree Homer and Bert on the top 2 lines doesn't work. Homer should hang em up and unfortunately we are stuck with Bert for one more year.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Pavel Datsyuk apparently has to have Homer on his wing.

[martyrme19 73]

I honestly feel that Homer gets the label as a guy who can't skate just because of the reputation he has as an immovable object infront of the net. In any case, he was the reason why we won game 6. Check out the two goals, including the game winner where he was clearly a main factor in front of the net.

He's only a year removed from a 25 goal season in 68 games....though, admittidly, my argument doesn't bode well for his injury risk.

but 7pts in 11 games this post season and a +7. +3 against the sharks. Hard to argue with that. 7pts in 12 games last year too.

In any case, you'd be suprised on how many NHLers are bums for skaters. Really.

[Echolalia 2,961]

For all the beef he gets, Homer plays incredibly smart hockey. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and he plays a style that maximizes the opportunity to use his strengths and minimizes the chances that his weaknesses will be exposed. He's the best in the league (still) in front and around the net and plays a smart cycle. He won't be the first guy out of the zone, but that isn't his job. In fact his job is usually quite the opposite: to hang down low until the puck definitively leaves the zone. There have been a lot of times where following an offensive zone turnover, the rest of our team bails and starts back-checking only for the puck to be turned over again just inside the blue line. The team knows to just get it deep because Homer is still down there and will be able to hold the puck down low long enough for the rest of the team to reestablish the zone. Most other teams just dump the puck (ie turnover) and fall back into the trap. I've seen Cleary, Bert, and Abby follow this pattern on more than one occasion as well.

Anyways, the rest of our forwards are pretty well rounded. When you play alongside Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, you can afford to not be a great backchecker, or have strong playmaking/stickhandling skills.

I like what Homer can bring to the table. Still.

[Guest blueadams]

I honestly feel that Homer gets the label as a guy who can't skate just because of the reputation he has as an immovable object infront of the net. In any case, he was the reason why we won game 6. Check out the two goals, including the game winner where he was clearly a main factor in front of the net.

He's only a year removed from a 25 goal season in 68 games....though, admittidly, my argument doesn't bode well for his injury risk.

but 7pts in 11 games this post season and a +7. +3 against the sharks. Hard to argue with that. 7pts in 12 games last year too.

In any case, you'd be suprised on how many NHLers are bums for skaters. Really.

1 - he gets a labled as being a bad skater because he's a bad skater.

2 - he's the master of tipped pucks in front of the net, we all know that, and i'm not arguing that. but what about what happens with our top line on the other two thirds of the ice? playing defense. getting the puck into the zone. setting up the cycle (so he can get into his spot).

if you really want to get the most out of him, take him off the top line, and make him a power play specialist (bertuzzi, on the other hand, can rot away as a healthy scratch until he decides to be an enforcer for all i care).

For all the beef he gets, Homer plays incredibly smart hockey. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and he plays a style that maximizes the opportunity to use his strengths and minimizes the chances that his weaknesses will be exposed. He's the best in the league (still) in front and around the net and plays a smart cycle. He won't be the first guy out of the zone, but that isn't his job. In fact his job is usually quite the opposite: to hang down low until the puck definitively leaves the zone. There have been a lot of times where following an offensive zone turnover, the rest of our team bails and starts back-checking only for the puck to be turned over again just inside the blue line. The team knows to just get it deep because Homer is still down there and will be able to hold the puck down low long enough for the rest of the team to reestablish the zone. Most other teams just dump the puck (ie turnover) and fall back into the trap. I've seen Cleary, Bert, and Abby follow this pattern on more than one occasion as well.

Anyways, the rest of our forwards are pretty well rounded. When you play alongside Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, you can afford to not be a great backchecker, or have strong playmaking/stickhandling skills.

I like what Homer can bring to the table. Still.

1 - we all know he's smart (/a great guy/hard-worker/etc/etc/etc). so is draper. so is maltby. so is modano. moving on.

2 - you can afford it if you like getting knocked out in the second round, i guess.

[Nevermind 363]

For all the beef he gets, Homer plays incredibly smart hockey. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and he plays a style that maximizes the opportunity to use his strengths and minimizes the chances that his weaknesses will be exposed. He's the best in the league (still) in front and around the net and plays a smart cycle. He won't be the first guy out of the zone, but that isn't his job. In fact his job is usually quite the opposite: to hang down low until the puck definitively leaves the zone. There have been a lot of times where following an offensive zone turnover, the rest of our team bails and starts back-checking only for the puck to be turned over again just inside the blue line. The team knows to just get it deep because Homer is still down there and will be able to hold the puck down low long enough for the rest of the team to reestablish the zone. Most other teams just dump the puck (ie turnover) and fall back into the trap. I've seen Cleary, Bert, and Abby follow this pattern on more than one occasion as well.

Anyways, the rest of our forwards are pretty well rounded. When you play alongside Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, you can afford to not be a great backchecker, or have strong playmaking/stickhandling skills.

I like what Homer can bring to the table. Still.

Well said.

Homer never takes a shift off. He's not really bad once in the defensive zone. He just sometimes takes a little longer to get back there. Even though he's a slow skater, at least he always skates as hard as he can.

Bottom line is that, like Echolalia said, he plays a very smart game according to his strengths and weaknesses. Nobody else is close to as good as him in front of the net. And he's excellent at retrieving loose pucks and maintaining the cycle as well.

I bet Pavel would still want Homer on his line.

[Guest Crymson]

Homer is one-dimensional, yes, but he's less one-dimensional than most players of the type. He knows his weaknesses and acts to compensate for them. Guys like Hudler just float.

[brett 1,029]

homer too slow for 4th liner

[Hossa4Life 4]

lol blue adams and his lines

[VM1138 1,921]

Homer had a pretty good season, and actually impressed me with his skating and puck handling. I don't get all the hate. The guy produces points.

[hotwings24 4]

I agree whats all the dissing of homer he did very well this year. He more than earned his spot next year. Sometimes it cracks me up on how fans single out certain players... Its a team effort.. Its not just one players fault.

[Echolalia 2,961]

1 - he gets a labled as being a bad skater because he's a bad skater.

2 - he's the master of tipped pucks in front of the net, we all know that, and i'm not arguing that. but what about what happens with our top line on the other two thirds of the ice? playing defense. getting the puck into the zone. setting up the cycle (so he can get into his spot).

if you really want to get the most out of him, take him off the top line, and make him a power play specialist (bertuzzi, on the other hand, can rot away as a healthy scratch until he decides to be an enforcer for all i care).

1 - we all know he's smart (/a great guy/hard-worker/etc/etc/etc). so is draper. so is maltby. so is modano. moving on.

2 - you can afford it if you like getting knocked out in the second round, i guess.

1.Neither one of those points actually presents an argument of any kind. I mentioned he's smart because he does a good job of avoiding situations where he becomes a liability, which was one of the reasons you suggested we move him. Saying Draper, Maltby, Modano are all smart has nothing to do with the argument whatsoever.

2. Again, I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to get across here. So you're blaming Homer for losing a series that went to game 7 and featured every game (minus one EN goal) being a one-goal game, despite the fact that he contributed a goal and two assists and was a +3 in that series? Is that the point you're trying to make? Because that's not an argument against what I said, that's you essentially repeating your original statement, which still hasn't been supported with any sort of logical argument.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Echolalia

[Guest blueadams]

1.Neither one of those points actually presents an argument of any kind. I mentioned he's smart because he does a good job of avoiding situations where he becomes a liability, which was one of the reasons you suggested we move him. Saying Draper, Maltby, Modano are all smart has nothing to do with the argument whatsoever.

2. Again, I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to get across here. So you're blaming Homer for losing a series that went to game 7 and featured every game (minus one EN goal) being a one-goal game, despite the fact that he contributed a goal and two assists and was a +3 in that series? Is that the point you're trying to make? Because that's not an argument against what I said, that's you essentially repeating your original statement, which still hasn't been supported with any sort of logical argument.

he can do everything you guys like him doing as a PP specialist. it's pretty rare for us to get to set up a cycle with him in front of the net in even strength situations anyways. if we ever find ourselves setting up the cycle with ease against a weak opponent, send him over the bench for some shifts on the top lines, sure.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

For all the beef he gets, Homer plays incredibly smart hockey. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and he plays a style that maximizes the opportunity to use his strengths and minimizes the chances that his weaknesses will be exposed. He's the best in the league (still) in front and around the net and plays a smart cycle. He won't be the first guy out of the zone, but that isn't his job. In fact his job is usually quite the opposite: to hang down low until the puck definitively leaves the zone. There have been a lot of times where following an offensive zone turnover, the rest of our team bails and starts back-checking only for the puck to be turned over again just inside the blue line. The team knows to just get it deep because Homer is still down there and will be able to hold the puck down low long enough for the rest of the team to reestablish the zone. Most other teams just dump the puck (ie turnover) and fall back into the trap. I've seen Cleary, Bert, and Abby follow this pattern on more than one occasion as well.

Anyways, the rest of our forwards are pretty well rounded. When you play alongside Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, you can afford to not be a great backchecker, or have strong playmaking/stickhandling skills.

I like what Homer can bring to the table. Still.

Agreed. Homer has an extremely limited skillset, but he does make the most of it. The biggest factor in him being worth his contract or not is if he stays healthy.

And I also think he doesn't get enough credit for his puck retrieval skills. Datsyuk is great in the corners because he's a pickpocket and dipsy-doodles and comes out with the puck. Homer goes in and just hacks and whacks and battles and often comes out with the puck, then dishes it to a playmaker. If the puck ends up in the corner, he goes and battles again and dishes it off. And will do it again, and again, and again.

[Hank Dats 'N Homer 81]

Yuk, those are some bad lines...whats with the homer and bertuzzi hate? I think they both played well enough to earn their spots for next season. Bert had glimpses of his old self alot this year and i think he can still play well enough to contribute. Homer is Homer. Had a decent season for his age and still the best at what he does. Id bring him back and not on the whacky fourth line...

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I refer you to the game-winning goals for the Wings in Games 5 and 6 against the Sharks for a display of Homer's effectiveness at even-strength.

[hooon 1,089]

1 - he gets a labled as being a bad skater because he's a bad skater.

2 - he's the master of tipped pucks in front of the net, we all know that, and i'm not arguing that. but what about what happens with our top line on the other two thirds of the ice? playing defense. getting the puck into the zone. setting up the cycle (so he can get into his spot).

if you really want to get the most out of him, take him off the top line, and make him a power play specialist (bertuzzi, on the other hand, can rot away as a healthy scratch until he decides to be an enforcer for all i care).

1 - we all know he's smart (/a great guy/hard-worker/etc/etc/etc). so is draper. so is maltby. so is modano. moving on.

2 - you can afford it if you like getting knocked out in the second round, i guess.

So let me get this straight.... losing by one goal in game 7 against the Sharks was Holmstrom's fault now?

I think you better start another thread on this, just to clarify.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Bert and Homie are supposed to provide the net presence on scoring lines, which makes them liable for bad calls and yet those two are undoubtedly on the referees s*** list for reputation calls among with a bunch others in the league... That's what... Irony?

[lookalive07 251]

Hooray! A Blueadams line thread and we can finally neg again!

[Guest blueadams]

someone please tell me why they think bertuzzi adds more to the team than, say, jan mursak?

[Wings_Toledo 233]

I agree with the original assessment for the most part, except putting Homer on the fourth line.

I think the combination of Eaves/Helm/Miller (or Mursak, etc.) is far more effective than just throwing Holmstrom in there with them. Keep him on the 2nd/3rd lines and try to go out and get one more top six forward in the offseason via some sort of trade.

Bertuzzi has shown he can be an effective enforcer-type when motivated, but he has been somewhat disappointing as far as a scorer. Let Abdelkader take his role and plug Bertuzzi into games to give other guys a rest.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

As far as I know, our season is over?

Why would we have the exact same players we had this season save one spot? I'm assuming Holland will make more changes than that.

Edited May 16, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[Buppy 1,720]

As far as I know, our season is over?

Why would we have the exact same players we had this season save one spot? I'm assuming Holland will make more changes than that.

Because for the most part, all the players are already signed for next year.

Mursak in for Modano seems almost certain. The rest of our FAs are at the bottom of the roster, aside from Nick. We'll probably make a few minor changes, but anything major seems highly unlikely.

And our biggest need is defense (backup goalie should be simple). We were 2nd in scoring. 23rd in goals against. Nick (and Rafi) probably won't be around much longer. FA defensemen are much deeper than forwards this year too. If we have the cap space for anything significant, we need to spend it on something to help ease the eventual Nick transition.

We also don't have much in terms of tradeable assets. Flip, maybe Cleary and Abby. Anyone else with value is more valuable than whatever we could get in return. If we move Flip, we probably need a top-6 capable center with speed, solid defense, but better goal scoring. I don't know that we'd be able to put together any package that really provides much improvement.

Our forwards were fine. They'll most likely be fine again next year. The team as a whole was good enough to win a Cup, just didn't play quite well enough to start the SJ series. We have one more year with a very good team that should again be a contender. After that we'll probably need a shakeup, with Homer, Bert, Huds, Rafi, Stu, Kronwall, maybe Nick, plus any temps we get for next year all UFA, Helm and Abby RFA. Then a new CBA to worry about too. That will probably be our big transition year.