Smith to be on Wings next season?

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I don't see him making the roster. And I certainly don't see the point to play musical chairs with him. If he comes up, it'd be dumb to keep bumping back down to Grand Rapids for more "conditioning stints". Everyone knows Holland doesn't play that.

Holland will find vet(s) to fill holes. Smith will spend another year in GR and will fill in for injuries, and be a black ace in the PO. Nothing more, nothing less. I watched him in Grand Rapids and he's at the very best another year away from making the big league.

If E doesn't come back, do you think it would be wise for the Wings to bring in 2-3 new players, with only one likely getting a contract over a year? Or do you think it would be better for Smith to learn from Lids and have Janik/Meech waiting in the A if Smith doesn't play well?

[Guest Heaten]

If E doesn't come back, do you think it would be wise for the Wings to bring in 2-3 new players, with only one likely getting a contract over a year? Or do you think it would be better for Smith to learn from Lids and have Janik/Meech waiting in the A if Smith doesn't play well?

I think Holland does re-signs Ericsson for (probably many on LGWs will consider overpayment) 3/4 year deal. I also think Holland signs Salei or similiar and, perhaps, a decent lesser known dman (not Wisinaski, Erhoff, Bieska or any other name thrown around on LGWs),Holland may opt to trade for a dman. If Kindl has a good camp, he will get his shot this season. Ericsson will probably be moved up to #4.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Smith won't be on the roster unless he's filling in for injuries. I would not feel comfortable with Smith in the NHL this soon. He will be the whipping boy in less than 2 months if he did get promoted, and LGW members will be calling for Holland's head for drafting him in the 1st round. Smith just isn't ready.

[eva unit zero 271]

Chelios on Smith:

"At points of the season in the American League there was no one better on the ice," Chelios said. "Him and Derek Meech were a step above everybody. But then you look at Brendan some games and he looks his age and plays his age. Detroit's known for bringing guys along slowly to the Wings. Can he play in the NHL? I think he's got all the tools and skills.

"It's just a matter of now with this spot opening up with Rafi, depending on who they try and replace him with, he might get the opportunity now. It's a big hole to fill. Eventually I think they're looking at a guy like Brendan Smith. He's a power play, penalty kill guy, a 25-minute-a-game guy. So maybe this might wake him up a little bit this summer, he'll work a little harder."

Starting to sound more and more like Smith is going to have every chance to make this team out of camp. The PK part surprised me. I admit, the only time I watch Griffins games is when they play the Marlies because it is on Leafs TV, but is his defense better than he is given credit for?

http://www.foxsports...880&feedID=3701

That kind of makes it sound like Chelios actually wants to replace Rafalski with Meech. Which makes sense; Meech is fast, offensively skilled, knows the Wings' system well, and can play a decent defensive game.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Chelios on Smith:

Starting to sound more and more like Smith is going to have every chance to make this team out of camp. The PK part surprised me. I admit, the only time I watch Griffins games is when they play the Marlies because it is on Leafs TV, but is his defense better than he is given credit for?

http://www.foxsports...880&feedID=3701

Rafalski has shown you don't need to be great or even above average defensively to be dominant at even strength. Smith has all the tools to dominate at even strength with his vision and poise. As long as he starts the season with the defense of an average 5th-6th DMan, he'll be ocmpletely fine due to his offence being well above of what normal 5th-6th DMen bring to the table.

[Datsyerberger 279]

That kind of makes it sound like Chelios actually wants to replace Rafalski with Meech. Which makes sense; Meech is fast, offensively skilled, knows the Wings' system well, and can play a decent defensive game.

Might be more along the lines of Chelios thinks Meech deserves another shot at being a backup d-man/emergency forward on the Wings roster due to hard work/good play in the AHL last year.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

i think Meech has already stated its time for him to move on.

[mmamolo 287]

The Wings only have Kronwall, Stuart, and Kindl signed for next season from this year's team.

Assuming Lidstrom comes back, we have a hole in our top four from Raffi, and questions about Ericsson and Salei. Ericsson seems to want way more than he's worth, and Salei was losing his spot to Kindl at the end of the year.

So the Wings go out and sign a guy like Ehrhoff/Pitkanen/Wisniewski/Bieksa to replace Rafalski. Kindl moves into the top six. Now we have to add one more defenseman to the top six-probably a stay-at-home type, and add a spare. I don't think either of those guys will be Smith. Smith comes in the year after when he has no more waiver options, and the team either lets the new stay at home guy go or lets Stuart go.

This is why no one takes you seriously. You try to subtly slide in your biased opinions into every thread even when it has absolutely no business being in there. There is no logic to this statement what so ever. Why on earth, after a year when the Wings have big holes on their blueline would they move one of the few players returning? Just because you have a bias against Stuart doesn't mean the Wings will move the player you dislike.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

It would be pretty exciting for this kid to come into training camp and play lights out and earn a spot, but I really just don't see it happening on the front office end. It would go against everything they've been preaching over the last 20 years. Develop develop develop...

I would personally love to see this kid make it, because you see these instances happen in other cities (Doughty, Johnson, Weber, Suter, Green, Carlson, Suban, Bogosian, etc... It would be nice to see a young kid on the team being mentored by Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Stuart. To see him improve as the season progresses (hopefully).

I think it would be good to see this happen, but not at the detriment of this teams progression.

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

The wings got a 6'5 defenseman who plays like he is 6 feet except for one fight every 40 games or so, I was saying that Ericcson looked like a potential norris candidate in his future with the way he played in the ahl (thats from bob mackenzie), and all of a sudden he comes to the NHL and has to readjust his game completely. What was the use in those extra years in the AHL when now he ould be adjusted to the NHL better if he came up a year earlier?

Kronwall split his first North American season between the AHL and NHL and played his second during the NHL lockout with the griffins, I like how you leave that out to try to make a point. He was playing in the NHL from the get go and was getting experience, even if he didnt stick the whole season, he was getting significant time and experience.

Fish played 52 games in the NHL in his first season and 7 in the AHL, than played 55 in the NHL his second year with 18 in the AHL. Once again, Fischer was an NHLer from the get go, racking up experience and adjusting to the pro game, not to the minors than having to adjust all over again. Any attempt at trying to make it sound like Kronwall or Fish weren't NHLers from the start is dumb

I'm not saying keep Smith in the pressbox, get him into 40 games or so and send him to the minors if you need to after a while if he isnt ready. Not being ready doesnt mean he cant get experience playing against Edmonton, Florida etc

I agree with this. What the Wings are doing right now is NOT working, so try something different. If they were in the Stanley Cup finals like they were in 08/09, I'd be a little more patient. But they need to infuse some of their youth now. The old guys just aren't cutting it anymore. Having Rafalski/Holmstrom/Bertuzzi/Draper takes spots away from the young guys at this point in time is just a waste. I'd rather see Smith/Tatar/Mursak/Kindl in those 4 spots than the geezers.

[uk_redwing 495]

I think he would do OK if he was in the NHL next season.

I think he'd do even better next season with a proper full season of AHL 1st pairing minutes behind him.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I agree with this. What the Wings are doing right now is NOT working, so try something different. If they were in the Stanley Cup finals like they were in 08/09, I'd be a little more patient. But they need to infuse some of their youth now. The old guys just aren't cutting it anymore. Having Rafalski/Holmstrom/Bertuzzi/Draper takes spots away from the young guys at this point in time is just a waste. I'd rather see Smith/Tatar/Mursak/Kindl in those 4 spots than the geezers.

Because putting youth automatically makes the team better.

Where were you in the offseason of 01 when they signed some of the oldest players in the league?

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Thinking about the subject more, if Lids re-signs (which IMO is likely) and the Wings get Wiz (IMO the most likely UFA talked about on these boards), Smith should be up if he has a good camp. He can then learn from Lids and Wiz. Lids has the great(est) defensive game, and Wiz is a physical player. If Smith can learn from both of them, I think his career would be helped immensely.

Edited June 1, 2011 by WorkingOvertime

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

Because putting youth automatically makes the team better.

Where were you in the offseason of 01 when they signed some of the oldest players in the league?

And where were you when the SALARY CAP was put in place? You don't think I want the Wings to go out and grab the top 6 UFA's right now? Gimme a break. I want them to do what they actually CAN do.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

And where were you when the SALARY CAP was put in place? You don't think I want the Wings to go out and grab the top 6 UFA's right now? Gimme a break. I want them to do what they actually CAN do.

No, I want you to understand that youth doesn't magically make the team better.

Apparently clear cut examples don't make any sense to you.

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

No, I want you to understand that youth doesn't magically make the team better.

Apparently clear cut examples don't make any sense to you.

I get your point, but it's not clear cut. If the Salary Cap wasn't in place and the Wings could spend freely on Robitaille/Hull - like guys, then I'd be all for it. But it's not like that anymore, Doc. I'm sorry, but you must learn to understand the way the Salary Cap has changed things.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I agree with this. What the Wings are doing right now is NOT working, so try something different. If they were in the Stanley Cup finals like they were in 08/09, I'd be a little more patient. But they need to infuse some of their youth now. The old guys just aren't cutting it anymore. Having Rafalski/Holmstrom/Bertuzzi/Draper takes spots away from the young guys at this point in time is just a waste. I'd rather see Smith/Tatar/Mursak/Kindl in those 4 spots than the geezers.

Seriously, these guys have only won the President's Trophy twice since the lockout, the Cup once, won their division only 5 times, the playoffs every year, usually finish top 3 in the conference... they're awful. Blow them up, toss out years and years of team philosophy and build strategy, and start from scratch. It's the only hope before this team falls into a new Dead Wings era... any day now.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I agree with this. What the Wings are doing right now is NOT working, so try something different. If they were in the Stanley Cup finals like they were in 08/09, I'd be a little more patient. But they need to infuse some of their youth now. The old guys just aren't cutting it anymore. Having Rafalski/Holmstrom/Bertuzzi/Draper takes spots away from the young guys at this point in time is just a waste. I'd rather see Smith/Tatar/Mursak/Kindl in those 4 spots than the geezers.

So what do you suppose the Wings do this year with Bert and Homer? This will be on the top lines because that is where they are most effective. Because of the cap, they will still be here. Also, Mursak and Tatar won't join the team and magically produce at 40+ point levels. I'm all for youth, but you can't plug many rookies into the lineup and expect to win that year.

Ask fans of any other team if what the Wings are doing IS working- they will tell you yes. Are there needed tweaks? Yes, but I challenge you to find a team that doesn't need any. If you expect the Wings to make the SCF every year, you will be disappointed often.

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

So what do you suppose the Wings do this year with Bert and Homer? This will be on the top lines because that is where they are most effective. Because of the cap, they will still be here. Also, Mursak and Tatar won't join the team and magically produce at 40+ point levels. I'm all for youth, but you can't plug many rookies into the lineup and expect to win that year.

Ask fans of any other team if what the Wings are doing IS working- they will tell you yes. Are there needed tweaks? Yes, but I challenge you to find a team that doesn't need any. If you expect the Wings to make the SCF every year, you will be disappointed often.

I didn't even know that Rafalski had retired. Damn, that is a HUGE relief.

And I GUARANTEE that if Mursak or Tatar get a chance to play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg as their centerman next year, they will score at least 40 points. Holmstrom and Bertuzzi would be OUT of the league right now if the Red Wings weren't hanging onto them. They are just eating up roster space now. The Wings have a great line-up without them. I'd put Ericsson up front and roll it like this:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Cleary

Franzen-Zetterberg-Ericsson

Tatar-Helm-Mursak

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

Bertuzzi-Holmstrom

Lidstrom-Smith

Kronwall-Kindl

Stuart-Salei

Meech

Howard

McCollum

I think we'd be a lot faster and could win with that line-up.

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

Man,

Look at what a difference dropping Rafalski/Hudler/Holmstrom/Bertuzzi makes. We could go after 1 really good defenseman and 1 really good forward.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($1.500m)

Patrick Eaves ($0.900m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)

/ Drew Miller ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.800m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Ruslan Salei ($1.250m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m) / Derek Meech ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Thomas McCollum ($0.816m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $50,048,710; BONUSES: $260,000

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,351,290

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I didn't even know that Rafalski had retired. Damn, that is a HUGE relief.

And I GUARANTEE that if Mursak or Tatar get a chance to play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg as their centerman next year, they will score at least 40 points. Holmstrom and Bertuzzi would be OUT of the league right now if the Red Wings weren't hanging onto them. They are just eating up roster space now. The Wings have a great line-up without them. I'd put Ericsson up front and roll it like this:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Cleary

Franzen-Zetterberg-Ericsson

Tatar-Helm-Mursak

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

Bertuzzi-Holmstrom

Lidstrom-Smith

Kronwall-Kindl

Stuart-Salei

Meech

Howard

McCollum

I think we'd be a lot faster and could win with that line-up.

Anyone on the 2010-2011 Wings would score 40 points playing 82 games with Dats or Z (assuming decent wingers). With that said, your proposed lineup is not an improvement, especially at forward, over the current team. E on the second line? Compare your lineup to the following

Flip- Dats- Homer

Mule- Z- Cleary

Bert- Abby- Tatar

Eaves- Helm- Mursak

[Guest Grayne Wetzky]

Anyone on the 2010-2011 Wings would score 40 points playing 82 games with Dats or Z (assuming decent wingers). With that said, your proposed lineup is not an improvement, especially at forward, over the current team. E on the second line? Compare your lineup to the following

Flip- Dats- Homer

Mule- Z- Cleary

Bert- Abby- Tatar

Eaves- Helm- Mursak

I see. I just don't think we need to change much up front. I don't think we got beat up front in the playoffs. I think we got beat on our 3rd D-Line pairing = Rafalski/Ericsson. Watch game 1 and Game 3 of the Sharks series again. That pairing singlehandedly coughed up game 3, and they were on the ice for a lot of the San Jose cycling during game 1. The whole team got beat in game 2 and game 7, so i won't put much emphasis on those games. But 1 and 3 were the Wings' games to win if Rafalski and Ericsson don't cough them up. Wings could have taken that series very easily in 5 or 6 games if the third d-pairing was more solid.

So in answer to your post, the line-up you're presenting is the same one we had last year with Mursak and Tatar being replacements for Modano/Miller/Draper/Hudler. I don't have a big problem with that, other than the fact that the Wings won't be able to unload Hudler. I just want to see the old guys (minus Lidstrom, of course) go, and the new guys come in.

[Shaman 713]

I see. I just don't think we need to change much up front. I don't think we got beat up front in the playoffs. I think we got beat on our 3rd D-Line pairing = Rafalski/Ericsson. Watch game 1 and Game 3 of the Sharks series again. That pairing singlehandedly coughed up game 3, and they were on the ice for a lot of the San Jose cycling during game 1. The whole team got beat in game 2 and game 7, so i won't put much emphasis on those games. But 1 and 3 were the Wings' games to win if Rafalski and Ericsson don't cough them up. Wings could have taken that series very easily in 5 or 6 games if the third d-pairing was more solid.

So in answer to your post, the line-up you're presenting is the same one we had last year with Mursak and Tatar being replacements for Modano/Miller/Draper/Hudler. I don't have a big problem with that, other than the fact that the Wings won't be able to unload Hudler. I just want to see the old guys (minus Lidstrom, of course) go, and the new guys come in.

Don't know which playoffs you were watching, but I do believe there were a few games against the sharks a timely goal MAY have helped a little. Or even a timely clear or Abby not taking a jackass penalty. The Wings' defense wasn't 08 amazing, but it was pretty good in the playoffs.

[eva unit zero 271]

This is why no one takes you seriously. You try to subtly slide in your biased opinions into every thread even when it has absolutely no business being in there. There is no logic to this statement what so ever. Why on earth, after a year when the Wings have big holes on their blueline would they move one of the few players returning? Just because you have a bias against Stuart doesn't mean the Wings will move the player you dislike.

Stuart's contract runs out at that point. If the Wings' defense is loaded up and Stuart is no longer a top four player, they will likely let him walk to make room for Smith. That was the nature of my comment.

[eva unit zero 271]

Might be more along the lines of Chelios thinks Meech deserves another shot at being a backup d-man/emergency forward on the Wings roster due to hard work/good play in the AHL last year.

Perhaps if the Wings were to go with Meech and Janik to replace Salei and Ericsson (Janik is the 7th), and use their cap space on a big name forward like, say, Brad Richards...

[redwingfan19 293]

ok, so now that the dust has settled, here is an interesting holland quote:

For now, Holland believes that the Wings are in the driver’s seat, so to speak, while sitting on the sidelines…

“We explored some people, but in a lot of cases where we were interested we couldn’t provide the opportunity for them to have a bigger role when they looked at our roster,” Holland said. “We’ve got all summer to put the pieces in place. We’ve got a No. 1 goaltender,” Holland continued. “Look at our defense and we’ve got Brendan Smith who’s a first-round pick, an All-American at college and made the All-Rookie team in the American League. How close is he? I don’t know. If you went out and signed a bunch of people and boxed him out from making the team I don’t know if that’s in our best interest. And we’ve got a young kid in (Doug) Janik. Some of these guys are unknown, but unless you give them an opportunity to play how do they ever become known?”

I for one would love to see Smith on the team next year and I think it's a real possibility. He could easily replace some of Rafalski's offense IMO.

Edited July 2, 2011 by redwingfan19