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swiss_fan

Babcock "pissed off" about Burns-to-SJ

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There was no way we could match the SJ offer, but, I don't think it would have got that high, without someone driving the bids.

It's likely Holland is just as mad that he couldn't land Burns.

We DO have Lidstrom this year and I'm pretty sure everyone was looking at next year as the rebuild year, this year is another band-aid year, hold on to the wagon, the ride always gets easier.

I'm sure July 3rd everyone will be planning the parade.

Let's Go Wings!

Edited by Wingzman91

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Burns is the scape goat.... its the idea he got traded and the Front Office let it go with out a fight or a offer....then trade the 1st pick away for 2 second rounders because they are confident the players they are looking at will be there when they want them.(does that mean we never look at players above the rank of 30?) honestly its frustrating.... to see all these teams around us getting better and wondering why Holland is prepared to wait. Why is my question. does he think that there is another Datsyuk or Zett sitting in the later rounds that only HE knows about..... sometimes playing it cool and patient doesnt make you a better team...or a better GM. It makes you play golf in May.

He wants his players to be aggressive and play to their ability, Why can't we expect the same from our GM? He has players of value...and cap space. and still has done very little when you look at what has been done around the league.

Well first off, Ken Holland has never missed the playoffs during his tenure as the Wings GM...So whatever strategy he's using, I'd say it's a pretty good one.

"He let it go without a fight or offer." How do you know this? Are you suggesting Cliff Fletcher walked over to our table and said "I'll give you Burns for free" and Holland turned them down? Essentially, Minnesota got 3 first round picks, all offensive guys, from this deal. The Wings didn't have that kind of depth of young offensive players, so Minnesota turned to someone who did. There are probably a bazillion gajillion trade discussions that happen during the course of the year, and realistically only a slim percentage of those actually result in trades. Ken Holland is a smart guy. He knows what other teams are doing. He knows what our strengths and weaknesses are. One way or another, he's going to address those needs. But he's also going to do it in a way that helps us in the long run, just not this season.

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There's no way Holland would have made that trade without Burns being signed to an extension. Seto was just signed to a home-town discount contract for 3 years and he's been dealt for a d-man who's got 1 year left on his pre-UFA contract.

Here's another thing that Holland would never do: screw a player as royally as Doug Wilson just did Setoguchi. It was a terrible thing. Setoguchi signed at a very reasonable rate (lower than he could have gotten) because he loves San Jose, and he absolutely gushed afterward about how excited he was to continue playing there; and then Wilson traded him less than 24 hours later. That's just low.

The fact that this organization doesn't toy with its players like that is one of the reasons why it's an attractive destination for free agents.

With the Sharks getting Brent Burns they just got a shutdown D-man and they are MUCH better. I guess we'll see who makes the biggest splash after 1 July, but for now, it looks like SJ has the biggest splash followed by Kings then the Blue Jackets. As for the Flyers...they just got themselves another Bobby Luo...a choker.

Don't pass up on James Wisniewski.

Brent Burns is not a shutdown D-man. He's somewhat gifted offensively, but he's only average defensively.

ya i could see some sort of ntc for the coming season. that would be more reasonable. not sure if thats possible? but it would be a nice guarantee for players and not cripple a team if things dont work out that year.

Uhh.. what? I don't get it.

Edited by Crymson

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After reading up on it here:

Fletcher says he got a lot of calls. I'd guess one of them was from Holland, but we just didn't have the assets Minnesota was looking for. They wanted a young shooter, so none of our roster players would have fit. We don't have any prospects currently rated as highly as Coyle, plus Flethcer seems to really like both Coyle and Gooch.

Maybe something like Tatar, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, + our 1st could have gotten it done, but I wouldn't weaken our forward prospects that much for Burns. He's not Shea Weber.

Currently we have $16,207,955

Well that sheds some light on the subject.... Thanks for the article.!! :thumbup:

Holland turned one pick (#24) into two picks (#35 and #48). Without making this move, the Wings only get one of those players. THAT is the point!!

Well I suppose... in 3-4 years it will pay off right?!?? Tell Nick Lidstrom tough luck on going out with a cup for me! other teams got better by trading their picks for immediate help (which we need) That is MY point! I see yours as well tho.

Well first off, Ken Holland has never missed the playoffs during his tenure as the Wings GM...So whatever strategy he's using, I'd say it's a pretty good one.

"He let it go without a fight or offer." How do you know this? Are you suggesting Cliff Fletcher walked over to our table and said "I'll give you Burns for free" and Holland turned them down? Essentially, Minnesota got 3 first round picks, all offensive guys, from this deal. The Wings didn't have that kind of depth of young offensive players, so Minnesota turned to someone who did. There are probably a bazillion gajillion trade discussions that happen during the course of the year, and realistically only a slim percentage of those actually result in trades. Ken Holland is a smart guy. He knows what other teams are doing. He knows what our strengths and weaknesses are. One way or another, he's going to address those needs. But he's also going to do it in a way that helps us in the long run, just not this season.

Why do people think they need to put words into other peoples mouths???..... I never once thought that Burns for nothing....

Well when a quote from Babcock says something to the effect of “They just hit a home run,” “That’s a gold medal pick. I’m pissed off.”

That kinda tells me that Holland had the ability...just not the willingness to go ahead and pull the trigger! which means No body wants Hudler and Flip is off limits.... no trades get done to better our selves we must rely on Free Agency... Jagr anyone???

I am sure trade talks are like a fever during the draft... everyone catches one! But jeez..... with a quality D man that you know you need.... you make that deal happen.

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I am sure trade talks are like a fever during the draft... everyone catches one! But jeez..... with a quality D man that you know you need.... you make that deal happen.

How? Trade Datsyuk? Trade Filppula + Helm + Sheahan + Smith?

Highly doubt Wild 'wanted' a 2-way forward that doens't even score 20 goals, so Holland would have to sweeten the deal by throwing in Helm and Sheahan. And I highly doubt a team like the Wild want anything to do with a 10 year+ contact in Franzen. So who do they trade? You really think Holland should mortgage the future for a above average dman with concussion issues and will be an UFA next summer?

Really?

Boy, sure glad you are not the GM of this team...

Thankfully, Illitch is too smart to hire anyone with your inabilities anyhow.

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How? Trade Datsyuk? Trade Filppula + Helm + Sheahan + Smith?

Highly doubt Wild 'wanted' a 2-way forward that doens't even score 20 goals, so Holland would have to sweeten the deal by throwing in Helm and Sheahan. And I highly doubt a team like the Wild want anything to do with a 10 year+ contact in Franzen. So who do they trade? You really think Holland should mortgage the future for a above average dman with concussion issues and will be an UFA next summer?

Really?

Boy, sure glad you are not the GM of this team...

Thankfully, Illitch is too smart to hire anyone with your inabilities anyhow.

I suppose your Office is next to Hollands? didnt think so! since you got it all figured out... and seem to have all the answers.... who is our Defensive pick up this year Genius??

San Jose seemed to think he was worth something.... why didnt we...?

Flip + Smith + Sheahan + Helm = Setoguchi? to you? whoa!!!!!! and MY Inabilities are in question.

San Jose did not give up a Datsyuk in that deal..so please take your condescending tude elsewhere!

Edited by Hockeytown_Ryan

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I suppose your Office is next to Hollands? didnt think so! since you got it all figured out... and seem to have all the answers.... who is our Defensive pick up this year Genius??

San Jose seemed to think he was worth something.... why didnt we...?

Way to dodge the question 'Hockeytown_Ryan'. There appears to be some decent UFA options out there that can be had without giving up assets. Holland can even afford to overpay for a 1yr deals if needed.

Again, San Jose seemed to think he was worth something because they HAVE ASSETS TO GIVE UP. Red Wings do not. Unless you want Red Wings to be bottom feeders for the next 7 years because Holland gave the future studs away for a one-year chance.

Smith has a higher ceiling than Burns... so lets give him a way for a concussed UFA defenseman? And hey, Wild will demand Sheahan, Helm and Filpulla too, Git-R-Done Kenny!!!11

You are a tool

EDIT:

San Jose did not give up a Datsyuk in that deal..so please take your condescending tude elsewhere!

Probably because they have mid-level top 6 assets to trade. Who do Wings have in that category, Holmstrom, Bertuzzi? Lol.

Wings junk is not worth gold, sparky.

Edited by Heaten

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Way to dodge the question 'Hockeytown_Ryan'. There appears to be some decent UFA options out there that can be had without giving up assets. Holland can even afford to overpay for a 1yr deals if needed.

Again, San Jose seemed to think he was worth something because they HAVE ASSETS TO GIVE UP. Red Wings do not. Unless you want Red Wings to be bottom feeders for the next 7 years because Holland gave the future studs away for a one-year chance.

Smith has a higher ceiling than Burns... so lets give him a way for a concussed UFA defenseman? And hey, Wild will demand Sheahan, Helm and Filpulla too, Git-R-Done Kenny!!!11

You are a tool

Source????

because if it is you... You are the tool!

thats ok.. when we are all here this time next year and we got ousted early...Nick hangs them up and the best we have under contract is Kindl you might wish we had a nice "Ready for NHL" defense to continue for this team ( not to say we wont extend the contracts of a couple guys! - just saying right now thats all we have past this year...)

Just sayin' right now 3 teams in our conference ( That were already good) got better...and us.... we got 3 2nd round picks and guys for the minors for the next few years! ....

Edited by Hockeytown_Ryan

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Source????

because if it is you... You are the tool!

You're an idiot. If you think Burns could have been had for Red Wings garbage, then I don't know what to tell you. Why do you think Wild would take less from us when they got a pretty damn good deal from Sharks?

What can Detroit offer that is better than the deal they got from the Sharks? Hudler? Bertuzzi? Holmstrom?

Who????

Lets look at this objectively, Setoguchi is a young top 6, large body, 20-30 goal scorer who just signed a 3 year contract at a bargain @ $3mil per. Sharks also throw in a highly-regarded 1st round choice in Charlie Coyle (8.0 prospect grade) and a first round draft pick.

What could Detroit realistically offer to 'one-up' that deal?

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Tool happens to be a good band :P

Seriously, this isn't that big a deal, Burns would have been awesome, but, who is to say we don't get him next year?

Patience, grasshoppa, alot said Vancouver had it in the bag when they got Ballard and July 1st Hamhuis.

We WILL sign someone and you'll love him just as much as you'd ever loved Burns.

Atleast I will :P

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Tool happens to be a good band :P

Seriously, this isn't that big a deal, Burns would have been awesome, but, who is to say we don't get him next year?

Patience, grasshoppa, alot said Vancouver had it in the bag when they got Ballard and July 1st Hamhuis.

We WILL sign someone and you'll love him just as much as you'd ever loved Burns.

Atleast I will :P

Probably right and I hope so!

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I'm not so much pissed as very concerned.

Sharks = Better

Kings = Better

Columbus = Better (but still not contender)

Some good news:

Blackhawks = Worse

With the loss of Rafalski the Wings are without question worse. We need to add a top 3 defensemen and and a top 6 forward without question to remain competitive with SJ. We are undersized at forward as it was and now with Burns in SJ we REALLY need some size up front.

I have this sick feeling that we will not spend to the Cap and Ilitch is tight on money for the Wings. I hope I'm very very wrong.

The Hawks got better too, they got out from under the contract and will have more maneuverability.

I don't know about that money issue at all. He was looking at buying the Pistons and didn't. He has a bunch of money, I think we just are dealing with the cap life.

He's a young Defensmen. it took LGW over two months to realize we aren't getting Weber, and there are still some on here that think we can lol

15% chance next year.

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The Hawks got better too, they got out from under the contract and will have more maneuverability.

I don't know about that money issue at all. He was looking at buying the Pistons and didn't. He has a bunch of money, I think we just are dealing with the cap life.

Ilitch is not short on money.

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You're an idiot

stopped after that..... I see the classless comments and no longer wish to continue this discussion with you.

grow up and stop calling people YOU DO NOT KNOW... names. that is pretty rude in my opinion. and just so it is clear... I did call you a tool....because you decided to

start the name calling... I wont do it again! I got sucked in and that was MY mistake...

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There might still be trades to have.

grow up and stop calling people YOU DO NOT KNOW... names. that is pretty rude in my opinion.

But... I thought that was what the internet was for... :lol:

Ilitch is not short on money.

I know, that is why I said that in response to someone thinking we are out of money. He clearly has money.

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If they don't sign Franzen to a long term deal they couldn't have dealt him for Burns and a draft pick. Franzen has been horrible since the big signing.

Don't know when he will show up.

Wings need D bad.

Holland could have had 5 picks in the 2nd round don't mean s***. All 5 picks could turn out to be s*** for the Franchise long term.

It's is time for this team to get younger this season.

Holland has to make some deals. Missed Brewer and Burns.

Wish they kept Yzerman instead. At least he is trying to get Tampa better.

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Holland has to make some deals. Missed Brewer and Burns.

I don't think Brewer was available for him to 'miss' and I'll pass on offering too much for a defenseman with a history of concussions for 1 year.

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Ya. lol.

I love it when people on here think that they know the finer points of management and what's going on behind the scenes. It's amusing.

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Why do people think they need to put words into other peoples mouths???..... I never once thought that Burns for nothing....

Well when a quote from Babcock says something to the effect of "They just hit a home run," "That's a gold medal pick. I'm pissed off."

That kinda tells me that Holland had the ability...just not the willingness to go ahead and pull the trigger! which means No body wants Hudler and Flip is off limits.... no trades get done to better our selves we must rely on Free Agency... Jagr anyone???

I am sure trade talks are like a fever during the draft... everyone catches one! But jeez..... with a quality D man that you know you need.... you make that deal happen.

Again, you're missing the point. Just because Detroit and Minnesota were talking about Burns doesn't mean that Kenny never tried to pull the trigger. All that means is that San Jose was able to offer Minnesota more of what they were looking for. Flip is not the type of player the Wild were looking for. They wanted a pure goal-scoring winger, and Setoguchi is that player. Yes, Sheahan is probably expendable in that convo, but other than that and a draft pick, the Wings didn't have that last piece that they needed. San Jose did. s*** happens. The next time a D man becomes available, maybe It'll go our way.

Ken Holland may be a hall of fame executive someday. I trust his judgement.

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Source????

because if it is you... You are the tool!

thats ok.. when we are all here this time next year and we got ousted early...Nick hangs them up and the best we have under contract is Kindl you might wish we had a nice "Ready for NHL" defense to continue for this team ( not to say we wont extend the contracts of a couple guys! - just saying right now thats all we have past this year...)

Just sayin' right now 3 teams in our conference ( That were already good) got better...and us.... we got 3 2nd round picks and guys for the minors for the next few years! ....

So, whom do you figure the Wild would have asked for from us? The Sharks gave up a good, young offensive forward, a high-level defensive prospect and a first-round pick. What do you think it would have taken the Wings to match that?

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