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[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

26 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Clifford is also a 4th line guy, albeit 5 year older...

A young, undersized skilled winger, that has been great in the AHL, but unable to yet establish himself in the NHL. Who am I describing? Trevor Moore or Taro Hirose?...

I'm not "counting on an injury". I'm also not counting on him being traded. I don't think he will be traded, but if a goalie on a contending team gets injured, he could be a candidate to be traded. If he is, we should be looking for a 2nd round pick, at minimum.

And brings a 2 way play and physical dimension for the playoffs  as well as 2 cup win experience neither those 2 guys have 

Both? Both putting up(put up) good ahl numbers and both have yet to establish themselves in the nhl , hirose has more upside as a 3rd liner but wouldnt surprise me to see both guys out of the league in 2-5 yrs and you can toss ehn in that mix 

we can keep looking for a 2nd round min but we’ll never ever receive that . We both seem to agree he wont be moved .Progress 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

30 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

All the numbers (including advanced stats) back up what I'm saying about Bernier. The league is increasingly getting away from goalies playing 60+ games a year if you haven't noticed. Having a 1a/1b situation in goal is becoming more and more common. Also, Bernier will start more than 50 games by the end of the season. Despite having missed time with injury. If not for that, he'd eclipse 55+ easy. So yeah, that IS Bernier. 

Forget your advanced stats and use your eyes , teams that arent using goalies playing 55-65 games clearly dont have a #1 goalie , its nor because thats what the league has become

Ottawa and buffalo from our division quickly come to mind as an example ... they dont have a #1 goalie so they have 2 goalies sharing the duties 

Its more and more common cause again , those teams dont have a #1 goalie ... if jimmy howard played like last season as well as not miss games due to injuries bernier would have played even fewer games than he has (which is only 30)

Howard missed games which gave bernier more starts so i dont know how he’d be eclipsing 55+ games if anything they have basically split the duties and will be splitting most of the games remaining as im sure stevie will try and showcase howard and hope someone takes him or see if he can bounce back the rest of the way and decide whether or not to truly close the book on him

Edited February 6, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[marcaractac 3,963]

42 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Forget your advanced stats and use your eyes , teams that arent using goalies playing 55-65 games clearly dont have a #1 goalie , its nor because thats what the league has become

Ottawa and buffalo from our division quickly come to mind as an example ... they dont have a #1 goalie so they have 2 goalies sharing the duties 

Its more and more common cause again , those teams dont have a #1 goalie ... if jimmy howard played like last season as well as not miss games due to injuries bernier would have played even fewer games than he has (which is only 30)

Howard missed games which gave bernier more starts so i dont know how he’d be eclipsing 55+ games if anything they have basically split the duties and will be splitting most of the games remaining as im sure stevie will try and showcase howard and hope someone takes him or see if he can bounce back the rest of the way and decide whether or not to truly close the book on him

I have used my eyes. Bernier has been great. I clearly said that the stats back that up. And it is becoming more common to have two reliable goalies. Teams are playing #1 goalies less. Teams also need two reliable goalies in case one gets hurt. It's not rocket science. 

Bernier earned more starts with his play. That's why Howard rides the bench most nights. He will absolutely not be splitting starts with Howard to finish the season. He'll by far be getting the most starts. They aren't gonna showcase Howard. Bernier will continue to play because he gives the team the best chance to not get blown out. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

22 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I have used my eyes. Bernier has been great. I clearly said that the stats back that up. And it is becoming more common to have two reliable goalies. Teams are playing #1 goalies less. Teams also need two reliable goalies in case one gets hurt. It's not rocket science. 

Bernier earned more starts with his play. That's why Howard rides the bench most nights. He will absolutely not be splitting starts with Howard to finish the season. He'll by far be getting the most starts. They aren't gonna showcase Howard. Bernier will continue to play because he gives the team the best chance to not get blown out. 

Teams are playing #1 goalies less ... cause ... they don’t have a #1 goalie . Its not rocket science

done with this nonsense 

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Teams are playing #1 goalies less ... cause ... they don’t have a #1 goalie . Its not rocket science

done with this nonsense 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

And brings a 2 way play and physical dimension for the playoffs  as well as 2 cup win experience neither those 2 guys have 

Both? Both putting up(put up) good ahl numbers and both have yet to establish themselves in the nhl , hirose has more upside as a 3rd liner but wouldnt surprise me to see both guys out of the league in 2-5 yrs and you can toss ehn in that mix 

we can keep looking for a 2nd round min but we’ll never ever receive that . We both seem to agree he wont be moved .Progress 

Exactly. Both, which was my point. Moore is more like Hirose than Ehn.

Bold prediction... Moore plays a larger role, and scores more points in LA, than Clifford does in Toronto. Leafs do not re-sign Clifford.

If we don't get a 2nd round pick, we don't trade him.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Exactly. Both, which was my point. Moore is more like Hirose than Ehn.

Bold prediction... Moore plays a larger role, and scores more points in LA, than Clifford does in Toronto. Leafs do not re-sign Clifford.

If we don't get a 2nd round pick, we don't trade him.

See him more  as ehn but whatever couldnt care less about those 3 guys 

Well there’s  two stipulations where the kings get a 2nd instead of a 3rd , one is if clifford resigns so he must have some value . Clifford brings a dimension the leafs sorely lack (oddly enough the type of player babcock has been bitching for a long time) + 2 cup runs worth of playoff experience which id value more than moore if i was a contending team , dubas wont probably resign him cause he only values skill which will be his downfall 

we wont get a 2nd or any offer , so we wont deal him

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Ehn is our next Glendening (Gl-Ehn-dening). He'll be here thru the rebuild.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[greenrebellion 415]

 

You don't trade Bernier, my goodness folks, at some point this losing will affect the long term culture of this team.  We have no option outside of Bernier right now.  

Edited February 7, 2020 by greenrebellion

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

You don't trade Bernier, my goodness folks, at some point this losing will affect the long term culture of this team.  We have no option outside of Bernier right now.  

I completely agree. However, every player has it's price. It would take an overpayment for sure. What would it take for you to trade him?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

16 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

 

You don't trade Bernier, my goodness folks, at some point this losing will affect the long term culture of this team.  We have no option outside of Bernier right now.  

What if you plan on scorched earthing this entire team tho? 

[greenrebellion 415]

34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I completely agree. However, every player has it's price. It would take an overpayment for sure. What would it take for you to trade him?

2nd round, but not a late round, mid to early only plus a 3rd or a 4th rounder.

26 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

What if you plan on scorched earthing this entire team tho? 

Its already scorched earth out there.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Just now, greenrebellion said:

Its already scorched earth out there.

Agreed. 

My point was, maybe Yzerman's unconcerned with "long term culture" right now because he doesn't plan on having many of these players around long term. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Agreed. 

My point was, maybe Yzerman's unconcerned with "long term culture" right now because he doesn't plan on having many of these players around long term. 

Yzerman isn't blowing up the core.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yzerman isn't blowing up the core.

Lol. The almighty core? 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Lol. The almighty core? 

Yeah...

Larkin isn't going anywhere. Mantha isn't going anywhere. Bertuzzi isn't going anywhere. Hronek isn't going anywhere. That's our current core. None are going to be traded, unless a team significantly overpays.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah...

Larkin isn't going anywhere. Mantha isn't going anywhere. Bertuzzi isn't going anywhere. Hronek isn't going anywhere. That's our current core. None are going to be traded, unless a team significantly overpays.

Meh. I think Yzerman's got his eye on a newer, better core. At least I hope so. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 hours ago, greenrebellion said:

 

You don't trade Bernier, my goodness folks, at some point this losing will affect the long term culture of this team.  We have no option outside of Bernier right now.  

Counterpoint: Bernier has never been this good before, and the law of averages suggests he'll never be this good again. So why not sell high on him?  Go with Howard and Pickard.  Sure we'll lose, but we're losing most nights anyway. What's the difference?

Edited February 7, 2020 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Counterpoint: Bernier has never been this good before, and the law of averages suggests he'll never be this good again. So why not sell high on him?  Go with Howard and Pickard.  Sure we'll lose, but we're losing most nights anyway. What's the difference?

Sell high on him? Sure. What would you sell him for though? I wouldn't let him go for anything less than a 2nd round pick, minimum. I'd want a 2nd, plus.

What's the difference? There's a huge difference in losing every game 3-2, 2-1 with a scattered win sprinkled in with Bernier, or 8-2, 6-1 with little to no chance of a win with Howard / Pickard.

[marcaractac 3,963]

9 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Meh. I think Yzerman's got his eye on a newer, better core. At least I hope so. 

Hope you're ready for 10 years of more suck, if that's the case. In reality, if we add a couple high end players with our first overall pick this year and next, the current core is a LOT better. Plus, Seider will be part of said core. 

 

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Counterpoint: Bernier has never been this good before, and the law of averages suggests he'll never be this good again. So why not sell high on him?  Go with Howard and Pickard.  Sure we'll lose, but we're losing most nights anyway. What's the difference?

I'd be fine with it if it were for at least a pick early in the second round. Anything beyond that, I feel Bernier has more value to this team next season, assuming he keeps up his current play. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Hope you're ready for 10 years of more suck, if that's the case. In reality, if we add a couple high end players with our first overall pick this year and next, the current core is a LOT better. Plus, Seider will be part of said core

If we add Lafreniere/Byfield/Stutzle + possibly Luke Hughes next year + one more high end guy in 2022 would those players + Seider not be Yzerman's new core? 

My point? A core of Larkin + Mantha + Bert + Hronek is not good enough. Hence they are ALL tradeable IMO. 

It won't be 10 years of suck. But it'll be 5. Which is what I've been saying all along. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If we add Lafreniere/Byfield/Stutzle + possibly Luke Hughes next year + one more high end guy in 2022 would those players + Seider not be Yzerman's new core? 

My point? A core of Larkin + Mantha + Bert + Hronek is not good enough. Hence they are ALL tradeable IMO. 

It won't be 10 years of suck. But it'll be 5. Which is what I've been saying all along. 

Trading those guys just sets the team back. Adding elite talent to them makes the team better sooner rather than later. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If we add Lafreniere/Byfield/Stutzle + possibly Luke Hughes next year + one more high end guy in 2022 would those players + Seider not be Yzerman's new core? 

My point? A core of Larkin + Mantha + Bert + Hronek is not good enough. Hence they are ALL tradeable IMO. 

It won't be 10 years of suck. But it'll be 5. Which is what I've been saying all along. 

Are you thinking this because those guys arent stevie’s draft picks? Cause i can totally see yzerman have a higher opinion on seider and hopefully lafraniere than current guys but i do think hronek + larkin is part of the core and bertuzzi is the kind or guy you need in the playoffs so cant see yzerman ever dealing those guys unless we got a ransom back . Considering how s*** our d has been since lidstrom left trading hronek at this point with how hes coming along would be a huge blunder 

I wouldnt deal mantha but i can see him at one point getting fed up if he gets hurt again and again and decides to get a great return with younger guys back. If zadina gets 30+ next seasn youd have consider putting him in that core . Think we got some good assets now its just waiting to see what happens with them

 

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Hope you're ready for 10 years of more suck, if that's the case. In reality, if we add a couple high end players with our first overall pick this year and next, the current core is a LOT better. Plus, Seider will be part of said core. 

 

I'd be fine with it if it were for at least a pick early in the second round. Anything beyond that, I feel Bernier has more value to this team next season, assuming he keeps up his current play. 

The only early second pick you’d be able to get back is nashville who are set in goal , can’t ever see a non playoff team dealing an early second for one year of bernier 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Trading those guys just sets the team back. Adding elite talent to them makes the team better sooner rather than later. 

Yeah Yeah. No one's saying Yzerman's planning on trading Mantha for picks. But maybe there are some Holland guys that aren't Yzerman guys and he makes a couple of "hockey trades" to help re-mold this roster. Is this some sort of mind blowing concept? 

[marcaractac 3,963]

34 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yeah Yeah. No one's saying Yzerman's planning on trading Mantha for picks. But maybe there are some Holland guys that aren't Yzerman guys and he makes a couple of "hockey trades" to help re-mold this roster. Is this some sort of mind blowing concept? 

No, it's not a mind blowing concept. At no point did I say anyone is untradeable. If there are hockey trades out there that make sense, then fine. I just simply don't see it happening. At least not any time soon.  

43 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

The only early second pick you’d be able to get back is nashville who are set in goal , can’t ever see a non playoff team dealing an early second for one year of bernier 

Yeah, because surely there is no contending team that could ever own another team's second round pick. Unfathomable!