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Guest blueadams

Alright, time to call Nyquist up

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^ Wow, seriously?????

He was really ordinary, really ordinary.

I love his constant, "cycle down low then pass it back to the defenceman" play which ALWAYS gets intercepted.

That's funny, I don't usually here people complaining about cycling down low and kicking back to the defenseman when the Wings are leading the league in defense scoring. I thought Clearly was really good defensively and had a lot of jump in his skates tonight. He wasn't a game breaker or anything, but I never expect him to be. Good game Cleary.

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^ Wow, seriously?????

He was really ordinary, really ordinary.

I love his constant, "cycle down low then pass it back to the defenceman" play which ALWAYS gets intercepted.

As I've said before, my favorite Cleary play happens on the rush. He skates the puck to the half-wall, stops, and fires an aimless slapshot towards the net, which 99% of the time results in killing our rush.

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Also, his 5 shots on goal (tied for team high tonight), 3:05 PK time (lead all forwards), and increased defensive responsibilities (as opposed to his usual third line minutes). Of course you could choose to overlook the fact that buy his standards he had a pretty good game, and just keep bitching because for some reason he's not an offensive dynamo. Or...and just here me out here...or, you could cut him some slack, quite bitching, and acknowledge (quietly and to yourself), that he had a good game tonight. Whadda say?

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I say give Clears a few more games to figure out his state of health. Obviously a messed up knee prior and being post op now can definitely affect ones physical performance. If in the next few weeks hes still playing like poopoo then it may be time to consider having him work for his spot ALA Eaves and Miller, Emerton, Kindl and the others that have ready to go backups.

Cleary is there when he is needed, hes the one thats in place for the GWG on a tip in. He isnt Rafalski in the clutch (26 seconds to win the game Rafalski) but hes a game changer and a game winner when it counts.

Sadly, if he doesnt start stepping it up he is going to be a bigger liability than asset. I say that by Mid-March if he doesnt get with it that he needs to see reduced ice time or healthy scratches considering their are guys that can post up and not get run over the way hr has.

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That's funny, I don't usually here people complaining about cycling down low and kicking back to the defenseman when the Wings are leading the league in defense scoring. I thought Clearly was really good defensively and had a lot of jump in his skates tonight. He wasn't a game breaker or anything, but I never expect him to be. Good game Cleary.

Ummm Cleary always does the play I mentioned, did you even read what I posted? Obvs not.

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Also, his 5 shots on goal (tied for team high tonight), 3:05 PK time (lead all forwards), and increased defensive responsibilities (as opposed to his usual third line minutes). Of course you could choose to overlook the fact that buy his standards he had a pretty good game, and just keep bitching because for some reason he's not an offensive dynamo. Or...and just here me out here...or, you could cut him some slack, quite bitching, and acknowledge (quietly and to yourself), that he had a good game tonight. Whadda say?

Why would I acknowledge something that didn't happen? He didn't have a good game. He was average. It's not all his fault because he's not a top 6 forward and him filling in as one isn't really helping the team. He is what he is, a good defensive forward who belongs on the 3rd line.

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I get wanting to see young guys or people from Grand Rapids more, but unless Cleary is injured beyond repair, which I am definitely not hinting or suggesting at, none of them are going to be called up ahead of him.

The Cleary disdain in here in general, while far from flooding the forums here, is still boggling. Some of you are nuts regarding the subject, and you know who you are.

I am not making him out to be more than he is, so you can save your keystrokes there. And spare us any "Cleary apologist" or similar responses.

Eventually when all forwards are healthy again, I think he is best suited for the 3rd line with Helm/Miller etc., but to say he isn't capable in more of a scoring role isn't accurate to me. The recent past of 2009 playoffs where he netted 9 and scoring 25+ goals last season attest that he is capable of such a role, even if his numbers don't quite show that this season.

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Why would I acknowledge something that didn't happen? He didn't have a good game. He was average. It's not all his fault because he's not a top 6 forward and him filling in as one isn't really helping the team. He is what he is, a good defensive forward who belongs on the 3rd line.

Unreal, you yourself just said that he's not a top six forward. So why, when he's filling in as a top six (which presumably means more minutes, responsibility, pressure, etc.), and out performing (statistically) all the other top six forwards (last night only), will you still not even acknowledge that he played ONE good game? Did Cleary give your sister an STD or something?

If you think he's an inadequate player to fill a roll, and then when he's asked to fill that roll for a game, he leads forwards in shots, pk time, and meets his defensive responsibilities, you should be the first to acknowledge that he had ONE good game. I would think that would be an easier pill to swallow than admitting that you constantly low ball Clearly for no good reason.

Edited by kipwinger

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Ummm Cleary always does the play I mentioned, did you even read what I posted? Obvs not.

No s***, A LOT of players cycle the puck down low and then kick it back to the defensemen. That's why our defensemen lead the league in scoring. Unless you're going to suggest that none of Cleary's 15 assists came from this play that you say he "always does". Apparently Cleary is to you, what a red cloth is to a bull. Your animalistic and reactionary hatred is only slightly less comprehensible than my willingness to stand in a ring and go round for round with you.

p.s. I know the bull thing is Spanish. I was going to try an Aussie thing for you, but I didn't know if Wallabies had any sort of instinctive and unexplainable hatred for things in the same way that bulls, and indeed you too, have.

Edited by kipwinger

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I'm loving how everyone who supports Cleary on here cites, "well he's coming back from injury, and had his knees drained."

DUH!!!!!

That's his effing problem! He's always fricken hurt, and now he's even slower because of it.

He's a slow skater, never comes up with the puck. If he ever gets a breakaway he has no finesse. Like last night, he had a clear break... instead he was way too slow and the dman from the red line caught up to him after he had already crossed the blue line. So what does Cleary do? He fires a poorly aimed slapshot right into the goalie.

He shouldn't be making what he makes and be a 3/4th line guy, sorry, NO.

Pull your heads out of your arses. When I see Cleary in a foot race I KNOW he's going to lose. His shot doesn't make up for his lack of speed ala Hudler.

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Since 2006:

Cleary: 116 goals, 133 assists, 397 games played, 2.8 million salary.

Jordan Staal: 114 goals, 111 assists, 409 games played, 4 million dollars salary.

My point? Quite bitching.

Edited by kipwinger

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No s***, A LOT of players cycle the puck down low and then kick it back to the defensemen. That's why our defensemen lead the league in scoring. Unless you're going to suggest that none of Cleary's 15 assists came from this play that you say he "always does". Apparently Cleary is to you, what a red cloth is to a bull. Your animalistic and reactionary hatred is only slightly less comprehensible than my willingness to stand in a ring and go round for round with you.

p.s. I know the bull thing is Spanish. I was going to try an Aussie thing for you, but I didn't know if Wallabies had any sort of instinctive and unexplainable hatred for things in the same way that bulls, and indeed you too, have.

Firstly, why do you think I hate Cleary?? Sure, he's not one of my favourite Wings, but I like him, I certainly don't hate him. :lol: So anytime anyone criticise a player it means they hate them??

Secondly, I get a lot of players cycle the puck back to the defenseman, my man Filppula does it a heck of a lot, but unlike Cleary, his passes make it back. Often Clearys passes will be easily intercepted and the opposition will start a rush the other way. Im not repeating that again, so if you fail to understand it this time, bad luck.

Since 2006:

Cleary: 116 goals, 133 assists, 397 games played, 2.8 million salary.

Jordan Staal: 114 goals, 111 assists, 409 games played, 4 million dollars salary.

My point? Quite bitching.

C'mon mate, you're better than this. You know full well (I hope...) Staal hasn't been on 4 mil that entire time, so your point is irrelevant. 2009/10 was the first year his salary was 4 million, in the three seasons before hand it was almost half.

Edited by Aussie_Wing

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Firstly, why do you think I hate Cleary?? Sure, he's not one of my favourite Wings, but I like him, I certainly don't hate him. :lol:So anytime anyone criticise a player it means they hate them??

Secondly, I get a lot of players cycle the puck back to the defenseman, my man Filppula does it a heck of a lot, but unlike Cleary, his passes make it back. Often Cleary’s passes will be easily intercepted and the opposition will start a rush the other way. I’m not repeating that again, so if you fail to understand it this time, bad luck.

Yep, and it somehow makes you "not a real fan" or if you don't like any and all players who ever wore the Wheel then "you should go root for (insert any other team)"

Trust me, I know about this! :lol:

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Firstly, why do you think I hate Cleary?? Sure, he's not one of my favourite Wings, but I like him, I certainly don't hate him. :lol: So anytime anyone criticise a player it means they hate them??

Secondly, I get a lot of players cycle the puck back to the defenseman, my man Filppula does it a heck of a lot, but unlike Cleary, his passes make it back. Often Cleary's passes will be easily intercepted and the opposition will start a rush the other way. I'm not repeating that again, so if you fail to understand it this time, bad luck.

C'mon mate, you're better than this. You know full well (I hope...) Staal hasn't been on 4 mil that entire time, so your point is irrelevant. 2009/10 was the first year his salary was 4 million, in the three seasons before hand it was almost half.

Ground breaking point you've just made. Do you suppose Clearly wasn't making as much back in 2006 as he is now too? In 2006 Staal made 2.2 million after all of his bonuses. Without all of his bonuses he made 850,000 dollars. How much did Cleary make in 2006? 650,000 dollars before bonuses, and 650,000 dollars after bonuses. So unless you want to quibble about 200,000 dollars (in favor of my point I might add) I would expect you to either admit that Cleary is good value for money, or to level the same criticisms against guys like Staal as you do about Cleary. If you're not willing to do that, then I'd say that you've just got it out for Cleary. And you know what's funny, all this because I said he had one good game. Weak.

Here's the salary numbers.

http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=288

http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=477

Edited by kipwinger

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Ground breaking point you've just made. Do you suppose Clearly wasn't making as much back in 2006 as he is now too? In 2006 Staal made 2.2 million after all of his bonuses. Without all of his bonuses he made 850,000 dollars. How much did Cleary make in 2006? 650,000 dollars before bonuses, and 650,000 dollars after bonuses. So unless you want to quibble about 200,000 dollars (in favor of my point I might add) I would expect you to either admit that Cleary is good value for money, or to level the same criticisms against guys like Staal as you do about Cleary. If you're not willing to do that, then I'd say that you've just got it out for Cleary. And you know what's funny, all this because I said he had one good game. Weak.

Here's the salary numbers.

http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=288

http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=477

How does another player playing equally as bad make Cleary's play any better? Seriously? I don't give a crap about points, what has he done this entire year? What did he do towards the end of last season? Stop looking with tunnel vision.

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Ground breaking point you've just made. Do you suppose Clearly wasn't making as much back in 2006 as he is now too? In 2006 Staal made 2.2 million after all of his bonuses. Without all of his bonuses he made 850,000 dollars. How much did Cleary make in 2006? 650,000 dollars before bonuses, and 650,000 dollars after bonuses. So unless you want to quibble about 200,000 dollars (in favor of my point I might add) I would expect you to either admit that Cleary is good value for money, or to level the same criticisms against guys like Staal as you do about Cleary. If you're not willing to do that, then I'd say that you've just got it out for Cleary. And you know what's funny, all this because I said he had one good game. Weak.

Here's the salary numbers.

http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=288

http://capgeek.com/p...play.php?id=477

And you know what's really funny, all this because I said I disagreed. Weak too I guess...?

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How does another player playing equally as bad make Cleary's play any better? Seriously? I don't give a crap about points, what has he done this entire year? What did he do towards the end of last season? Stop looking with tunnel vision.

Hahaha wait, are you suggesting both Cleary and Staal are bad now? Also, good call on the points thing, they don't matter at all. Points, both past and projected are what a player's contract is based on, which in turn is what we've been debating here, money for value.

"So what if he's played extremely well for the very little money we've payed him. What's he done for me lately?" Considering every player on our team, except Filppula, is below their career highs who couldn't you say this about (by the way Cleary had is best career season last year)? Are you ready to trade 3/4 of the team because they're not performing like they did in the past or do you suppose we should stick to this whole loyalty thing that's been working for us for so many years?

Edited by kipwinger

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And you know what's really funny, all this because I said I disagreed. Weak too I guess...?

I'm confused now, are both Cleary and Staal ineffective third liners who make too much money, or do you single Cleary out based on nothing like factual knowledge or context? You keep disagreeing about him but I have yet to see you back up anything you say with any sort of evidence except the extremely anecdotal "whenever I watch him, he always does this one thing I don't like".

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