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How bad are we if our roster is now finalized?


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#1 blueadams

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:54 PM

Don't read too much into the lines I posted here. I just threw a best-guess out there to give us a look. Pay more attention to the additions/subtractions. What do we think?

*(I'm also assuming here that RFA's Quincey and Abdelkader are returned)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.866m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,483,295; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $12,716,705

Offensively: Top line remains the exact same (Didn't get Pav the help Babcock said we needed to). Samuelsson - or Brunner, if we got a gem there - replaces Hudler on the second line. Is that an improvement or a step back? Better defensively. Most would probably a little worse offensively. Overall, I think it's an improvement. In the bottom six I guess Brunner - or Samuelsson - replaces Holmstrom. Probably an improvement in full-strength play, but a step back on the Power Play. Nyquist steps into the lineup full-time, essentially replacing Miller I guess. That gives us a little more scoring depth, but probably hurts a little defensively. Then Tootoo brings some of the grit we wanted to add to the lineup, essentially replacing Emmerton from last season's lineup. That's a bottom-line improvement to me.

...So, in general, what we wanted to do and what we did? We wanted to add some grit, we did in Tootoo. We wanted to add some scoring depth, we did in adding Brunner, Samuelsson and Nyquist to the lineup (assuming that two of those three can at least match Hudler and Holmstrom's offensive production). And we wanted to get Pav some elite level help on that first line, which we didn't do. Which is why it's strange to me that we appear to not be interested in Semin, or even Doan. It'll be so, so costly to trade for a player that could make that kind of impact. In general then - - - I think that we got a little better offensively, but not good enough, not by far.


Defensively: #1 thing we needed to do was replace Lidstrom with an elite level defenseman and we didn't. Brendan Smith essentially replaces him. That's not even close to being good enough. #2 thing we needed to do was replace Stuart with at least an above average defenseman and, again, we didn't. Jakub Kindl (who is just awful IMO) essentially replaces him. That's not even close to being good enough either. #3 thing we needed to do was replace Conklin with a better backup, and while I don't know much about the Monster, all reports and opinions seem to imply that we were successful in that regard.

...In general though, we're just going to be so, so much worse defensively next season. So much worse. We need to trade for a defenseman much worse than we need to for a forward IMO. But again, it will just be so, so costly.

Overall: The way things stand...not really improving that much offensively and getting so much worse defensively...this might be the season that we don't make the playoffs. The rest of the Western Conference has really, really been improving over the last two or three seasons. I see us as a borderline playoff team right now, and that's if things go well, relatively speaking.

Edited by blueadams, 09 July 2012 - 02:28 PM.


#2 Red Crazy

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:01 PM

I agree. That is not a playoff team. Add in an injury or two along the way and that team could be in big trouble. I am starting to panic a bit but if this is the team that Ken Holland is "happy with" to start the season then perhaps he should go.

#3 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:07 PM

Don't read too much into the lines I posted here. I just threw a best-guess out there to give us a look. Pay more attention to the additions/subtractions. What do we think?

*(I'm also assuming here that RFA's Quincey and Abdelkader are returned)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.866m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,483,295; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $12,716,705

Offensively: Top line remains the exact same (Didn't get Pav the help Babcock said we needed to). Brunner - or Samuelsson - replaces Hudler on the second line. Is that an improvement or a step back? Impossible to know right now. In the bottom six I guess Samuelsson - or Brunner - replaces Holmstrom. Probably an improvement in full-strength play, but a step back on the Power Play. Nyquist steps into the lineup full-time, essentially replacing Miller I guess. That gives us a little more scoring depth, but probably hurts a little defensively. Then Tootoo brings some of the grit we wanted to add to the lineup, essentially replacing Emmerton from last season's lineup. That's a bottom-line improvement to me.

...So, in general, what we wanted to do and what we did? We wanted to add some grit, we did in Tootoo. We wanted to add some scoring depth, we did in adding Brunner, Samuelsson and Nyquist to the lineup (assuming that two of those three can at least match Hudler and Holmstrom's offensive production). And we wanted to get Pav some elite level help on that first line, which we didn't do. Which is why it's strange to me that we appear to not be interested in Semin, or even Doan. It'll be so, so costly to trade for a player that could make that kind of impact. In general then - - - I think that we got a little better offensively, but not good enough, not by far.


Defensively: #1 thing we needed to do was replace Lidstrom with an elite level defenseman and we didn't. Brendan Smith essentially replaces him. That's not even close to being good enough. #2 thing we needed to do was replace Stuart with at least an above average defenseman and, again, we didn't. Jakub Kindl (who is just awful IMO) essentially replaces him. That's not even close to being good enough either. #3 thing we needed to do was replace Conklin with a better backup, and while I don't know much about the Monster, all reports and opinions seem to imply that we were successful in that regard.

...In general though, we're just going to be so, so much worse defensively next season. So much worse. We need to trade for a defenseman much worse than we need to for a forward IMO. But again, it will just be so, so costly.

Overall: The way things stand...not really improving that much offensively and getting so much worse defensively...this might be the season that we don't make the playoffs. The rest of the Western Conference has really, really been improving over the last two or three seasons. I see us as a borderline playoff team right now, and that's if things go well, relatively speaking.

Sammy and Brunner are improvements over Hudler. Sammy puts up comparable numbers, but also plays a way better 2-way game. Meanwhile Brunner is a right handed sniper with way better wheels and seemingly more creativity.

Both are also improvements over the 1-dimensional Homer. Sammy can play the point on the PP and Brunner brings more than just standing in front of the net taking penalties to negate half our PP's, he is fast and can clearly move the puck better, but can also hang on to it and make things happen.

Nyquist won't replace Miller cause Miller should be full time on the 4th line. He earned his spot on the team. Nyquist will rotate between 1-3 and should be just fine defensively cause he's good at stealing the puck and has really good wheels to backcheck, unlike Hudler...have fun getting 38 points this year for the Flames, whom suck hard.

No one replaces Lidstrom...end of story. In saying that, Smith is my candidate for the Calder Trophy. He has all the tools to be a top 2 dman and has a nose for the net and is a tough SOB. I predict he will ultimately surpass Kronner on the Wings depth chart and that's from a huge Kronwall fan.

Didn't improve offensively? We lost Hudler and gained Sammy to offset his scoring, Tootoo, whom on a team that gets F all for scoring, got 35ish points on the 3rd/4th lines and added the Swiss Elite league scoring champ who was also a point per game at the world championships.

How many we're doomed threads are you going to make this offseason? We're a week and a bit into free agency and there's 3 months until the season starts, if it starts...

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

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#4 Shaman

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:14 PM

Sammy and Brunner are improvements over Hudler. Sammy puts up comparable numbers, but also plays a way better 2-way game. Meanwhile Brunner is a right handed sniper with way better wheels and seemingly more creativity.

Both are also improvements over the 1-dimensional Homer. Sammy can play the point on the PP and Brunner brings more than just standing in front of the net taking penalties to negate half our PP's, he is fast and can clearly move the puck better, but can also hang on to it and make things happen.

Nyquist won't replace Miller cause Miller should be full time on the 4th line. He earned his spot on the team. Nyquist will rotate between 1-3 and should be just fine defensively cause he's good at stealing the puck and has really good wheels to backcheck, unlike Hudler...have fun getting 38 points this year for the Flames, whom suck hard.

No one replaces Lidstrom...end of story. In saying that, Smith is my candidate for the Calder Trophy. He has all the tools to be a top 2 dman and has a nose for the net and is a tough SOB. I predict he will ultimately surpass Kronner on the Wings depth chart and that's from a huge Kronwall fan.

Didn't improve offensively? We lost Hudler and gained Sammy to offset his scoring, Tootoo, whom on a team that gets F all for scoring, got 35ish points on the 3rd/4th lines and added the Swiss Elite league scoring champ who was also a point per game at the world championships.

How many we're doomed threads are you going to make this offseason? We're a week and a bit into free agency and there's 3 months until the season starts, if it starts...

Sammy has only one season where he did better than Hudler... and guess what he was playing wing with the Sedin twins. He got 50pts playing with two guys who had nearly 180 points between them, if that doesn't make it clear, nothing will.
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#5 esteef

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

Smith replaces Lidstrom? Kindl replaces Stuart? More like Kronwall replaces Lids, Quincey replaces Stuart and we still need a top 4 d-man.

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#6 Heaten

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

Should make the playoffs in the 6th spot. If everyone pulls their weight and clicks, we should make top4 in the west. We already improved the backup goalie, Zetterberg shouldn't start of cold this year, and Helm and Cleary will be healthy.

It's not that bad.

EDIT:

And we upgraded Hudler to Sammy.

Edited by Heaten, 09 July 2012 - 01:22 PM.


#7 centcougar07

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:25 PM

2nd line looks better than the first lol

#8 Motown4013

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:26 PM

Sammy and Brunner are improvements over Hudler. Sammy puts up comparable numbers, but also plays a way better 2-way game. Meanwhile Brunner is a right handed sniper with way better wheels and seemingly more creativity.

Both are also improvements over the 1-dimensional Homer. Sammy can play the point on the PP and Brunner brings more than just standing in front of the net taking penalties to negate half our PP's, he is fast and can clearly move the puck better, but can also hang on to it and make things happen.

Nyquist won't replace Miller cause Miller should be full time on the 4th line. He earned his spot on the team. Nyquist will rotate between 1-3 and should be just fine defensively cause he's good at stealing the puck and has really good wheels to backcheck, unlike Hudler...have fun getting 38 points this year for the Flames, whom suck hard.

No one replaces Lidstrom...end of story. In saying that, Smith is my candidate for the Calder Trophy. He has all the tools to be a top 2 dman and has a nose for the net and is a tough SOB. I predict he will ultimately surpass Kronner on the Wings depth chart and that's from a huge Kronwall fan.

Didn't improve offensively? We lost Hudler and gained Sammy to offset his scoring, Tootoo, whom on a team that gets F all for scoring, got 35ish points on the 3rd/4th lines and added the Swiss Elite league scoring champ who was also a point per game at the world championships.

How many we're doomed threads are you going to make this offseason? We're a week and a bit into free agency and there's 3 months until the season starts, if it starts...

Not to beat a dead horse but offensively, Hudler is a better point producer than Sammy and Brunner is unproven. You can look his success in other leagues because it never translated to NHL standard so saying they are both an upgrade is BS. That has yet to be seen. Both of these players are ubgrades over Homer who is playing on the FOURTH line, but neither is as good on the powerplay. Say what you like about the demolition man, but he was the best net screeners ever and build for the PP>
TooToo is a good addition but he has ONE year that he had 30 pts on the 3rd/ 4th line so again, its unproven as to whether this increases offense or not. I like the additions Holland has made BUT it impossible to say we got better, especially with Brunner. Big ice, different speed, different league....not even comparable.

Edited by Motown4013, 09 July 2012 - 01:27 PM.

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#9 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:32 PM

Holland has never said that he's done for the offseason. I know everyone is antsy so see some more moves but the man has all Summer to figure out what is best for the team. I'd rather he take his time and see how this new CBA is going to pan out before making any major trades or being forced into an FA overpayment (which is inevitable in today's FA market environment). Ken Holland is not going to let this team suffer while keeping all of that cap space.

#10 Jericho613

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

If this is what the roster looks like going into the season, I say we still make the playoffs at about 6th seed. We would get our asses handed to us on quite a few nights, but i still think we have the scoring to win some games, providing Cleary, Sammy, Bert, Flip, and Franzen can score for us on a regular basis. We would need everyone to really step up with a thin Defense as it stands now. Not to mention White and Kronwall would have to be anchors, and Smith would have to grow up fast and learn alot on the fly. But this isn't the final roster so lets see what happens.

Edited by Jericho613, 09 July 2012 - 01:34 PM.


#11 blueadams

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:42 PM

We were a 5 seed last season. We've gotten a lot, lot, lot worse defensively. We haven't improved that much offensively. Assuming that we're going to be a six seed next season like some of you are...

Red Wing arrogance and ignorance.

#12 uk_redwing

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:42 PM

I'm surprised how many people think Brunner is going to be an instant success here when he's never played North American hockey before...especially as he's on a two-way contract I wouldn't be surprised if he started in Grand Rapids but hey I'm old fashioned and wear a sensible cap.

Obviously, at this point in time, we're a borderline playoff team probably leaning on not good enough but I don't think for a second we'll begin the season without adding anyone else.

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#13 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:48 PM

Sammy has only one season where he did better than Hudler... and guess what he was playing wing with the Sedin twins. He got 50pts playing with two guys who had nearly 180 points between them, if that doesn't make it clear, nothing will.

Sammy's point totals since his first arrival in Detroit were:
45pts/71gms-DET - .63 ppg
34pts/53gms-DET - .64 ppg
40pts/73gms-DET - .55 ppg
53pts/74gms-VAN - .72 ppg
50pts/70gms-VAN - .71 ppg
31pts/54gms-VAN/FLA - .57 ppg

If we have Sammy putting up an average of .60 ppg and playing a far superior 2-way game to Hudler and getting 5-10 less points I'd take him any day of the week. Add Tootoo who had 30 points in 77 games getting garbage ice time on a team that sucks offensively at .38 ppg, i'd love that on the 3rd/4th lines along with the grit and intensity he brings. Right there along with Brunner, our 2nd-4th lines have been upgraded. The only thing we didn't get was an elite offensive talent, but we didn't lose that either and what left, has been replaced. The biggest blow is that we lost Lidstrom and since then it's been all doom and gloom here.

No matter what Kenny does this offseason, we still don't have Lidstrom to run the blue line, or Stuart to block shots more than anyone else and throw hits.

I can't wait for the season to start and for Nyquist and Brunner to start lighting the lamp and for Smith to be over .5 ppg in the top 4 instead of on the 3rd D pairing and making us forget that we lost Stuart to the Sharts. If the season started tomorrow, and assuming Quincey is in the starting lineup, I'd be fine with what we have right now. I'd like to add Vandermeer or Jurcina, but if our lineup looked like the folliwing when the puck dropped on the start of the season i'd be ok with it:

Mule-Dats-Nyquist
Brunner-Z-Flip
Sammy-Helm-Bert
Cleary-Abby-Tootoo
Mursak/Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Quincey-White
Ericsson-Kindl


Howard/Monster

I like that there's a lot of potential for a lot of guys to step up, and that the team is actually getting younger despite Z and Dats getting older.

Not to beat a dead horse but offensively, Hudler is a better point producer than Sammy and Brunner is unproven. You can look his success in other leagues because it never translated to NHL standard so saying they are both an upgrade is BS. That has yet to be seen. Both of these players are ubgrades over Homer who is playing on the FOURTH line, but neither is as good on the powerplay. Say what you like about the demolition man, but he was the best net screeners ever and build for the PP>
TooToo is a good addition but he has ONE year that he had 30 pts on the 3rd/ 4th line so again, its unproven as to whether this increases offense or not. I like the additions Holland has made BUT it impossible to say we got better, especially with Brunner. Big ice, different speed, different league....not even comparable.

Brunner looked pretty good playing on a heavy underdog Switzerland team at the world championships putitng up a point per game.

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

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#14 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:59 PM

Red Wing arrogance and ignorance.

That has you name all over it.
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#15 atodaso

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

This is what some of you people seem like:

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Edit: Seriously though, a team doesn't improve only by adding new players. How about improving from within?
How about getting back a 80-90pt Zetterberg? A 90pt Datsyuk? A 25 goal Cleary? A motivated Franzen? A 50pt Kronwall? Maybe Ericsson turns into a solid top 4 d-man. Maybe Smith takes a huge step forward and becomes one of those rookies that other teams always seem to have (you know the ones that play great right away instead of taking 8 years to develop). Maybe this Brunner guy scores 30? Who knows?

Edited by atodaso, 09 July 2012 - 02:20 PM.


#16 Heaten

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

We were a 5 seed last season. We've gotten a lot, lot, lot worse defensively. We haven't improved that much offensively. Assuming that we're going to be a six seed next season like some of you are...

Red Wing arrogance and ignorance.


How many games did Conklin win for us last season? DRWs improved in net. Stuart wasn't great last season and Ericsson was rock solid. I expect Ericsson to be even better this year. I also expect Quincey to be much better, he was great for LA and Colorado. Stuart wasn't great and Lidstrom was showing his age. Our defense may have taken a step back, but the goalie situation improves us more....

Samuelsson improves the overall team defense. Hudler was brutal.
EDIT:

Just looked up Conklin's numbers. He posted 3.28 / .884. Wow!

Red Wings have actually improved!

Edited by Heaten, 09 July 2012 - 02:19 PM.


#17 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

Sammy's point totals since his first arrival in Detroit were:
45pts/71gms-DET - .63 ppg
34pts/53gms-DET - .64 ppg
40pts/73gms-DET - .55 ppg
53pts/74gms-VAN - .72 ppg
50pts/70gms-VAN - .71 ppg
31pts/54gms-VAN/FLA - .57 ppg

If we have Sammy putting up an average of .60 ppg and playing a far superior 2-way game to Hudler and getting 5-10 less points I'd take him any day of the week. Add Tootoo who had 30 points in 77 games getting garbage ice time on a team that sucks offensively at .38 ppg, i'd love that on the 3rd/4th lines along with the grit and intensity he brings. Right there along with Brunner, our 2nd-4th lines have been upgraded. The only thing we didn't get was an elite offensive talent, but we didn't lose that either and what left, has been replaced. The biggest blow is that we lost Lidstrom and since then it's been all doom and gloom here.

No matter what Kenny does this offseason, we still don't have Lidstrom to run the blue line, or Stuart to block shots more than anyone else and throw hits.

I can't wait for the season to start and for Nyquist and Brunner to start lighting the lamp and for Smith to be over .5 ppg in the top 4 instead of on the 3rd D pairing and making us forget that we lost Stuart to the Sharts. If the season started tomorrow, and assuming Quincey is in the starting lineup, I'd be fine with what we have right now. I'd like to add Vandermeer or Jurcina, but if our lineup looked like the folliwing when the puck dropped on the start of the season i'd be ok with it:

Mule-Dats-Nyquist
Brunner-Z-Flip
Sammy-Helm-Bert
Cleary-Abby-Tootoo
Mursak/Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Quincey-White
Ericsson-Kindl


Howard/Monster

I like that there's a lot of potential for a lot of guys to step up, and that the team is actually getting younger despite Z and Dats getting older.


Brunner looked pretty good playing on a heavy underdog Switzerland team at the world championships putitng up a point per game.


I think leaving Eaves out of the lineup is a mistake.... he was hurt last season so many people seem to forget that we have him. He has a good speed, great defensive abilities, and can also pot us 15-20 goals with relatively low ice time. I strongly believe Eaves is going to get a better look at things this season and be consistently in the lineup.... Oh, and he's a right handed shot.

#18 Johnz96

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:21 PM

Don't read too much into the lines I posted here. I just threw a best-guess out there to give us a look. Pay more attention to the additions/subtractions. What do we think?

*(I'm also assuming here that RFA's Quincey and Abdelkader are returned)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.866m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,483,295; BONUSES: $462,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $12,716,705

Offensively: Top line remains the exact same (Didn't get Pav the help Babcock said we needed to). Brunner - or Samuelsson - replaces Hudler on the second line. Is that an improvement or a step back? Impossible to know right now. In the bottom six I guess Samuelsson - or Brunner - replaces Holmstrom. Probably an improvement in full-strength play, but a step back on the Power Play. Nyquist steps into the lineup full-time, essentially replacing Miller I guess. That gives us a little more scoring depth, but probably hurts a little defensively. Then Tootoo brings some of the grit we wanted to add to the lineup, essentially replacing Emmerton from last season's lineup. That's a bottom-line improvement to me.

...So, in general, what we wanted to do and what we did? We wanted to add some grit, we did in Tootoo. We wanted to add some scoring depth, we did in adding Brunner, Samuelsson and Nyquist to the lineup (assuming that two of those three can at least match Hudler and Holmstrom's offensive production). And we wanted to get Pav some elite level help on that first line, which we didn't do. Which is why it's strange to me that we appear to not be interested in Semin, or even Doan. It'll be so, so costly to trade for a player that could make that kind of impact. In general then - - - I think that we got a little better offensively, but not good enough, not by far.


Defensively: #1 thing we needed to do was replace Lidstrom with an elite level defenseman and we didn't. Brendan Smith essentially replaces him. That's not even close to being good enough. #2 thing we needed to do was replace Stuart with at least an above average defenseman and, again, we didn't. Jakub Kindl (who is just awful IMO) essentially replaces him. That's not even close to being good enough either. #3 thing we needed to do was replace Conklin with a better backup, and while I don't know much about the Monster, all reports and opinions seem to imply that we were successful in that regard.

...In general though, we're just going to be so, so much worse defensively next season. So much worse. We need to trade for a defenseman much worse than we need to for a forward IMO. But again, it will just be so, so costly.

Overall: The way things stand...not really improving that much offensively and getting so much worse defensively...this might be the season that we don't make the playoffs. The rest of the Western Conference has really, really been improving over the last two or three seasons. I see us as a borderline playoff team right now, and that's if things go well, relatively speaking.

On the bright side, probable contenders for the first overall pick in 2013

#19 Johnz96

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:31 PM

Sammy's point totals since his first arrival in Detroit were:
45pts/71gms-DET - .63 ppg
34pts/53gms-DET - .64 ppg
40pts/73gms-DET - .55 ppg
53pts/74gms-VAN - .72 ppg
50pts/70gms-VAN - .71 ppg
31pts/54gms-VAN/FLA - .57 ppg

If we have Sammy putting up an average of .60 ppg and playing a far superior 2-way game to Hudler and getting 5-10 less points I'd take him any day of the week. Add Tootoo who had 30 points in 77 games getting garbage ice time on a team that sucks offensively at .38 ppg, i'd love that on the 3rd/4th lines along with the grit and intensity he brings. Right there along with Brunner, our 2nd-4th lines have been upgraded. The only thing we didn't get was an elite offensive talent, but we didn't lose that either and what left, has been replaced. The biggest blow is that we lost Lidstrom and since then it's been all doom and gloom here.

No matter what Kenny does this offseason, we still don't have Lidstrom to run the blue line, or Stuart to block shots more than anyone else and throw hits.

I can't wait for the season to start and for Nyquist and Brunner to start lighting the lamp and for Smith to be over .5 ppg in the top 4 instead of on the 3rd D pairing and making us forget that we lost Stuart to the Sharts. If the season started tomorrow, and assuming Quincey is in the starting lineup, I'd be fine with what we have right now. I'd like to add Vandermeer or Jurcina, but if our lineup looked like the folliwing when the puck dropped on the start of the season i'd be ok with it:

Mule-Dats-Nyquist
Brunner-Z-Flip
Sammy-Helm-Bert
Cleary-Abby-Tootoo
Mursak/Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Quincey-White
Ericsson-Kindl


Howard/Monster

I like that there's a lot of potential for a lot of guys to step up, and that the team is actually getting younger despite Z and Dats getting older.


Brunner looked pretty good playing on a heavy underdog Switzerland team at the world championships putitng up a point per game.

Smith is a shot blocking, punch throwing, offensive dynamo hit machine. If he gets time on the top 4 and PP time, I can see him being a top Calder candidate and defensemen rarely are

#20 dirtydangles

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

The only thing that bothers me about this roster is that Kenny will HAVE to eventually make a trade or we will have no Tatar up next season likely and no other forward prospects will get looks either... This is because of the deals he gave Bert, Sammy, and will likely give to Cleary. I want to bring some of our top 6 talent up from the AHL and give them a true shot next season. If that means trading Franzen for d help, letting cleary walk, or trading bertuzzi then so be it.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?






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