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jroc86

Bouwmeester opinions? Potential trades? *merged*

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Agree about Lang. But there isn't any difference between doing nothing and being wrong and doing something and being wrong. Sometime Hollands moves don't work out, but rarely does he really blow it out his ass.

I disagree. I'd rather have a active GM trying to improve than one keeping status quo on a team not winning.

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I disagree. I'd rather have a active GM trying to improve than one keeping status quo on a team not winning.

I agree, and maybe misspoke, but that was my point. I too want him to try to improve the team instead of standing pat, which in most cases is akin to going backwards.

Edited by whitewolf406

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

I agree, and maybe misspoke, but that was my point. I too want him to try to improve the team instead of standing pat, which in most cases is akin to going backwards.

Yup. The Wings got worse this offseason. You can say "we had to lose lidstrom at some point", but did we have to keep Bertuzzi and Quincey & sign Samuelsson and Tootoo? I can think of better things to do for 10 mil per season. Suter being the first.

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Yup. The Wings got worse this offseason. You can say "we had to lose lidstrom at some point", but did we have to keep Bertuzzi and Quincey & sign Samuelsson and Tootoo? I can think of better things to do for 10 mil per season. Suter being the first.

You're griping over things that were out of their hands. Suter had us as #2 on his list and ultimately decided to go play closer to home and with his buddy. He was already overpaid, it would have been asinine for Holland to try and overbid for him (WASTE OF MONEY). He signed Samuelsson to essentially replace Hudler, which is fine by me. At least Sammy will shoot more often and not be scared to do so. Sammy=40-50 points. Quincey was a necessary move, considering we lost out on Suter and the pickings after him were slim. And no, giving 4.6 million to Garrison for six years was not the answer (he also went home). You cannot judge Quincey on his "handful" of games last season. He'll come out much better with a full season here (his play in LA/COL are proof that he is better than what we saw). Tootoo, while questionable, I think adds a dimension to this team that has been lacking since Drake. He'll add some snarl to the bottom six and will pair well with Abdelkader. Yes, he was benched toward the end of last season, but he also put up 30 points playing minimal time last season. Again, the choices for agitators that can still play decent hockey were slim. Bertuzzi has played well for this team since coming here. He adapted his style to be more defensively responsible and makes a solid 3rd line winger with size. Is he streaky? Yes, but he is also able to have hot streaks and play on the top two lines when needed. He did have decent chemistry with Datsyuk. And that backhand... you can't beat that backhand.

A lot of whiners still hanging around, trying to stir up some panic, when I just see some adversity and truly believe the team, as is, will compete and make the playoffs. Have a little pride in your team, and don't start crying the second things don't go "your" way.

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Would you rather have those guys at 10 mil per or Suter? Thats all i want to know.

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Would you rather have those guys at 10 mil per or Suter? Thats all i want to know.

what does that matter? you're setting up a straw man argument. it wasn't as if holland had to choose between the two. we have enough cap space we could have offered suter 10. the reason we didnt is because they made their top offer that they felt was fair and wouldnt handcuff them with the cap in the future. it unfortunately wasn't enough. maybe in a non-cap world we would have buckled and given suter as much as he wanted. heck maybe then we would have thrown just as much at parise and got him too.

bottom line is its not guys like tootoo and bertuzzi that caused us to lose out on suter

edit: also, one thing i have brought up a few times while talking about bouwmeester is that he was the most coveted FA of his class 3 years ago. and look where his stock is now. in 3 years, we may be patting ourselves on the back that we aren't saddled with a bad contract for someone that ended up under-performing. i think suter will look a lot different in minnesota without weber and rinne...

Edited by dobbles

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what does that matter? you're setting up a straw man argument. it wasn't as if holland had to choose between the two. we have enough cap space we could have offered suter 10. the reason we didnt is because they made their top offer that they felt was fair and wouldnt handcuff them with the cap in the future. it unfortunately wasn't enough. maybe in a non-cap world we would have buckled and given suter as much as he wanted. heck maybe then we would have thrown just as much at parise and got him too.

bottom line is its not guys like tootoo and bertuzzi that caused us to lose out on suter

edit: also, one thing i have brought up a few times while talking about bouwmeester is that he was the most coveted FA of his class 3 years ago. and look where his stock is now. in 3 years, we may be patting ourselves on the back that we aren't saddled with a bad contract for someone that ended up under-performing. i think suter will look a lot different in minnesota without weber and rinne...

Get back to work you damn slacker! :D

Honestly the thing the wings need to get and keep is some grit. Helm sparks the third line with his Jetaway speed and it hasn't helped that the 4th line has been a mishmash of spare parts and GR kids. We need to get some good chemistry and balance in the first 2 lines, a 3rd line of energy guys, and a 4th line of grit.

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http://www.mlive.com..._calgary_f.html

Interesting tid-bit here.

Seems the Wings are actively working this. Kenny is doing some work apparently. If this trade for JBo happens I hope we don't lose too much...

Awful news.... his contract is terrible, in my mind he isn't as reliable as Stuart was defensively, and his offensive production has dropped off substantially. If Calgary is smart, they'd take just about any deal to move him. If the Wings are smart, they would low-ball the crap out of them. If the Wings end up getting fleeced for Ian White 2.0 with a bigger contract, I'm gonna lose it...

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NHL '13 wouldn't even accept that... Worse forward + 7th defensemen + late 1st for Much better forward + 3rd defensemen

But NHL '09 might :P

But yea, it would take more for sure and probably more than most people on here would be willing to give up. I doubt there's a deal Calgary would accept for jbo and Iginla that I'd be happy with anyway..

Edit: actually '09 probly wouldn't either.. Considering Iginla would be 4 years younger. Was just joking because trading used to be so easy in the NHL games haha

Edited by amato

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I would rather Ken Holland plan for the future instead of dump $7 million a season on Bouwmeester. He is a solid defenseman, but he isn't a playmaker. He is someone that doesn't get you goals and assists. Why give up one of our forwards and a prospect for someone like him? IMHO, it doesn't make any sense to give up Franzen who scores around 30 goals per season and Nyquist who could have a breakout season for a guy who is going to finish +10 if he is luck and notch 4 goals and 20 assists. I would rather just give Brendan Smith the ice time. As I have said before, Bouwmeester is a guy who you wish you could get more from. He isn't a stud defenseman, but a solid defenseman. Why overpay for someone like this? The Flames did and now they are trying to dump his contract on someone else.

Plus, you have to realize we have a crop of UFAs and RFAs on our team next season. The salary cap we have left is going to have to go to some of those guys.

I think the best case situation is to wait until the new CBA is hammered out.

Edited by Nightfall

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I would rather Ken Holland plan for the future instead of dump $7 million a season on Bouwmeester. He is a solid defenseman, but he isn't a playmaker. He is someone that doesn't get you goals and assists. Why give up one of our forwards and a prospect for someone like him? IMHO, it doesn't make any sense to give up Franzen who scores around 30 goals per season and Nyquist who could have a breakout season for a guy who is going to finish +10 if he is luck and notch 4 goals and 20 assists. I would rather just give Brendan Smith the ice time. As I have said before, Bouwmeester is a guy who you wish you could get more from. He isn't a stud defenseman, but a solid defenseman. Why overpay for someone like this? The Flames did and now they are trying to dump his contract on someone else.

Plus, you have to realize we have a crop of UFAs and RFAs on our team next season. The salary cap we have left is going to have to go to some of those guys.

I think the best case situation is to wait until the new CBA is hammered out.

Bouwmeester has alot of skill that could very well flourish in Detroit.

He's overpaid - however there's only 2 years left on his contract.

Who knows what it would cost to get him - however if it's an even swap for a declining Franzen - then I'm all for it!

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Mark my words... we will not be trading any top 6 forwards for Bouwmeester. If a trade happens, it'll be for bottom 6 players and picks.

We cannot afford to lose Franzen... at least not this season. I see something more along these lines for Bouwmeester: Eaves and a 2nd round pick / Emmerton, Mursak, 4th rounder. It looks like Calgary may only have 11 one way contracts signed thus far, so they could use a couple forwards.

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Bouwmeester has alot of skill that could very well flourish in Detroit.

He's overpaid - however there's only 2 years left on his contract.

Who knows what it would cost to get him - however if it's an even swap for a declining Franzen - then I'm all for it!

I would love to move Franzen, but only if the return is worth-while. Bouwmeester is not worth-while. He defense leaves a lot to be desired, and his offense has dropped off to insignificant totals.

Compare him to a bigger Ian White, with a much bigger price tag, in this case in both cap and assets.

Bouwmeester: 717GP 65G 220A 285P -54 .397PPG

White: 478GP 43G 132A 175P +41 .366PPG

NO THANKS.

Edited by b.shanafan14

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I think Cleary, emmerton, 2nd might get it done. Although Calgary might like mursak emmerton 4th better. I doubt we give up franzen or nyq for him (or at all). Also, its not smith who's ice time would depend on aquiring another d man, its kindl. I think smith ends up playing up all year and just as much either way.

Kronner-white

Jbo-smith

Quincey-Ericsson

Something similar to that and I'd be happy. I think jbo would have a great year playing for a great team.

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I would love to move Franzen, but only if the return is worth-while. Bouwmeester is not worth-while. He defense leaves a lot to be desired, and his offense has dropped off to insignificant totals.

Compare him to a bigger Ian White, with a much bigger price tag, in this case in both cap and assets.

Bouwmeester (.397PPG): 717GP 65G 220A 285P

-54

White (.366PPG)

478GP 43G 132A 175P +41

NO THANKS.

Look at the team Bouwmeester plays on, and who his D partners have been over the years while a Flame.

By no means he's a Norris Trophy candidate, but he does possess the overall skill needed to play in our system (prime example - look how ineffective Commodore was for us last season).

Right now we have massive holes on defense; what's left via UFA are more or less players who are getting up there in years, or guys who are often on IR...Outta the UFA's - only Colaiacovo, and Rozsival interest me, and chances are 1 of those 2 will get signed by Philly.

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Guest RedWingsDad   
Guest RedWingsDad

Look at the team Bouwmeester plays on, and who his D partners have been over the years while a Flame.

By no means he's a Norris Trophy candidate, but he does possess the overall skill needed to play in our system (prime example - look how ineffective Commodore was for us last season).

Right now we have massive holes on defense; what's left via UFA are more or less players who are getting up there in years, or guys who are often on IR...Outta the UFA's - only Colaiacovo, and Rozsival interest me, and chances are 1 of those 2 will get signed by Philly.

... Commodore never got a fair shake last year from what I seen. I don't think it's fair to say he did or did not fit in when he didn't get a great opportunity to do so.

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Look at the team Bouwmeester plays on, and who his D partners have been over the years while a Flame.

Ian White has spent the majority of his career with Toronto, then Calgary, then Carolina, before finally playing 23 games with SJ and 77 with Detroit. Bouwmeester to me is another player we look at and say, "but playing here with better partners could provide a spark!". Who is he supposed to play with to improve his numbers?

I think his numbers with remain exactly the same, and he'll be crucified every game for getting burned defensively. The defense is in transition and he isn't the cure, just an expensive scapegoat. We'd be doing Calgary a huge favor, not matter who we give up, and with the cap likely going down, we could be in a lot of trouble for the next two years instead of staying afloat with cap-space.

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I'd totally be down for this trade as long as Franzen, Fil, Nyquist and our top prospects stay put. If its like 2 bottom sixers and a pick i will be happy.

I will say that all the CGY fans on hfboards think they will get Fil+ lol.

Edited by dirtydangles

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three things i think are important to remember:

philly is most likely very desperate for a defenseman and could be driving the price up making any deal harder to swallow.

the flames don't have to trade bouwmeester. sure they might have some problems if the cap goes down, but they could keep bouwmeester all season and be just fine. it seems like a lot of our fans think that calgary needs to do a salary dump and we are doing them a favor and can just give them scraps back.

the flames have always been weak at center. that would mean filppula would have to be the prime piece they are looking to get back. i believe they even plan on trying cammalleri at center since they dont have any top 6 centers to speak of. i think we should keep that in mind as we throw around proposals as i think they would have little use for guys like franzen, cleary, mursak, etc.

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