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jroc86

Bouwmeester opinions? Potential trades? *merged*

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The only real thing that knocks down his trade value a bit is his ridiculous contract. And with what free agents are getting, it suddenly looks less ridiculous than it was.

The new CBA can't come soon enough.

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Agreed. It's not some personal vendetta against Holland. If the Flames are going to trade away their top d-man they're going to want big value back.

The only real thing that knocks down his trade value a bit is his ridiculous contract. And with what free agents are getting, it suddenly looks less ridiculous than it was.

And the fact that there's only 2 years left on the contract makes it less ridiculous as well. The Flames are now around $3.5m under the current cap & have 8 defensemen under contract. They aren't in a situation where they HAVE to trade Bouwmeester, let alone any defenseman. The reasoning I've seen that they might is that they want their top prospect TJ Brodie up all season & in the lineup as a full timer. If that's the case, they would probably need to dump a d-man but that doesn't mean it will be JBo.

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i dont see us going for JBO realsticly i can see us trying for Yandle but at what price? its to bad wings cant go for del zotto although that isnt even funny considering the fact that the rangers would match anything we throw at him but if we cant go for yandle or anyone else that could be on the 1st line id say try for CC or even Kubina nothing wrong with giving it a shot

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Roszival and Kubina must be asking for too much term and money right now. I expect Kenny to sign 1 of them to a 1 year deal soon.

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This is fun...ugh. According to ESPN:

"Is Jay Bouwmeester Michigan-bound?

According to the Calgary Herald, word has it the Detroit Red Wings have made a pitch for the Calgary Flames defenseman. Losing both Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart this offseason, the Red Wings have a gaping hole on the blue line and few decent free-agent options. GM Ken Holland has an excess of solid forwards to offer the Flames in exchange.

The Anaheim Ducks, Nashville Predators, and St. Louis Blues are also looking to add an experienced NHL D-man. And GM Paul Holmgren of the Philadelphia Flyers could still be open to making such a move after losing out on Shea Weber."

This is the one and only time that I unequivocally want Holland to lowball himself out of the market. Just what we need, an offensive defenseman who doesn't score much, whose cap hit is outrageous, and who's signed for two more years. Half of our remaining 13 million dollars spent on Jay f****** Bouwmeester. Puke.

Edited by kipwinger

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The Herald is referencing a rumor started by a random, disreputable hockey blog.

Cool, I didn't really feel like digging into it, so I'm glad you did. It didn't really seem like Holland's MO but I'm glad for verification. Thanks for the heads up.

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i dont see us going for JBO realsticly i can see us trying for Yandle but at what price? its to bad wings cant go for del zotto although that isnt even funny considering the fact that the rangers would match anything we throw at him but if we cant go for yandle or anyone else that could be on the 1st line id say try for CC or even Kubina nothing wrong with giving it a shot

Colaiacovo or Kubina on the first pairing?! You mad?!

EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I misread. My bad!

Edited by Dabura

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I think Bouwmeester is an incredible athlete who is lacking in hockey sense and too soft to ever be a top NHL defenseman

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I think Bouwmeester is an incredible athlete who is lacking in hockey sense and too soft to ever be a top NHL defenseman

He's soft, but hockey sense I disagree with. He's very rarely out of posistion, has a good stick with size, good decision making, great passes, and probably one of the best skating defenseman in the league. He made Team Canada for a reason, Sutter(s) don't have a great track record of flourishing defenseman either.

There's no doubt he's soft, and overpaid. But he's still an above average stay at home, 10 goal, 20+ minute defenseman. The concern I have with bouwmeester is going to be what we'd have to give up, and frankly he's not worth anything close to what's being reported.

Hey man nice shot! likes this

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He's soft, but hockey sense I disagree with. He's very rarely out of posistion, has a good stick with size, good decision making, great passes, and probably one of the best skating defenseman in the league. He made Team Canada for a reason, Sutter(s) don't have a great track record of flourishing defenseman either.

There's no doubt he's soft, and overpaid. But he's still an above average stay at home, 10 goal, 20+ minute defenseman. The concern I have with bouwmeester is going to be what we'd have to give up, and frankly he's not worth anything close to what's being reported.

I think JBo would be great on our team...but only if JF will trade him for something we can afford to lose.
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I think JBo would be great on our team...but only if JF will trade him for something we can afford to lose.

This goes for pretty much any potential trade in the history or forever. It's basically a truism.

That said, I agree.

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I think JBo would be great on our team...but only if JF will trade him for something we can afford to lose.

But can we afford not to add Bouwmeester? I think a defenseman that can log 20+ minutes is worth more to Detroit right now than any realistic package going the other way.

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But can we afford not to add Bouwmeester? I think a defenseman that can log 20+ minutes is worth more to Detroit right now than any realistic package going the other way.

Bouwmeester is not an elite defenseman. He can eat minutes and he's durable. Those are his main strengths. He's below-average offensively and average defensively. The team can absolutely afford to be without him, especially given that the current market will vastly inflate his price.

I think JBo would be great on our team...but only if JF will trade him for something we can afford to lose.

... and he won't. He'll trade Bouwmeester for a forward and another quality defenseman. Bouwmeester is NOT worth that.

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Bouwmeester is not an elite defenseman. He can eat minutes and he's durable. Those are his main strengths. He's below-average offensively and average defensively. The team can absolutely afford to be without him, especially given that the current market will vastly inflate his price.

... and he won't. He'll trade Bouwmeester for a forward and another quality defenseman. Bouwmeester is NOT worth that.

im sorry but you are just wrong.

in the first 4 seasons after the lockout with florida, he was 23rd, 24th, 24th, and 21st in defenseman scoring. consistently being in the top 25 in the league in scoring is NOT below average.

sure he has had lower totals with calgary, but who doesnt? just for transparencies sake, he dropped to 55, 69, and 45 with them.

in his 7 seasons since the lockout, he was in the top 6 in scoring for his team 5 of those years. another year he was 8th. the only year he wasnt one of his teams top scorers was 10-11.

i am not saying he will be our savior, replace lidstrom, or even get traded. but people are undervaluing him. 3 summers ago he was the ryan suter of his free agent class before calgary dealt for his rights just before july 1st.

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im sorry but you are just wrong.

in the first 4 seasons after the lockout with florida, he was 23rd, 24th, 24th, and 21st in defenseman scoring. consistently being in the top 25 in the league in scoring is NOT below average.

sure he has had lower totals with calgary, but who doesnt? just for transparencies sake, he dropped to 55, 69, and 45 with them.

in his 7 seasons since the lockout, he was in the top 6 in scoring for his team 5 of those years. another year he was 8th. the only year he wasnt one of his teams top scorers was 10-11.

i am not saying he will be our savior, replace lidstrom, or even get traded. but people are undervaluing him. 3 summers ago he was the ryan suter of his free agent class before calgary dealt for his rights just before july 1st.

Oh, you don't like how I put that? OK, I'll put it this way: he's far below what his production should be for his salary and for what the Wings would need to put out in order to receive him. His numbers in Florida are irrelevant. How sought-after he was when his previous contract ended is irrelevant. What is important is the present stage of his career, and in this present stage of his career he has been unable to put up the offensive numbers expected of him in Calgary. He has, as such, been considered a dud there. His acquisition was meant to make Phaneuf expendable, and in this he has thus far been a failed project.

And whose numbers should improve when they go to Calgary, you ask? Certainly the numbers of someone going from a bottom feeder to a quasi-contender should at least remain consistent even if they don't rise.

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im sorry but you are just wrong.

in the first 4 seasons after the lockout with florida, he was 23rd, 24th, 24th, and 21st in defenseman scoring. consistently being in the top 25 in the league in scoring is NOT below average.

sure he has had lower totals with calgary, but who doesnt? just for transparencies sake, he dropped to 55, 69, and 45 with them.

in his 7 seasons since the lockout, he was in the top 6 in scoring for his team 5 of those years. another year he was 8th. the only year he wasnt one of his teams top scorers was 10-11.

i am not saying he will be our savior, replace lidstrom, or even get traded. but people are undervaluing him. 3 summers ago he was the ryan suter of his free agent class before calgary dealt for his rights just before july 1st.

He always played over 26 mins a game on the top PP unit and on the ice in all scoring situations in Florida, he's been getting a little less ice-time with the Flames and about a minute less PP time.

He is very skilled, one of the best skaters in the NHL and has great reach an amazing physical specimen but he is soft,doesn't hit and doesn't like getting hit and makes mistakes to avoid getting hit, not much of a compete level, not very good positionally, is error prone and worth less than half of his cap hit

Edited by Johnz96

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Oh, you don't like how I put that? OK, I'll put it this way: he's far below what his production should be for his salary and for what the Wings would need to put out in order to receive him. His numbers in Florida are irrelevant. How sought-after he was when his previous contract ended is irrelevant. What is important is the present stage of his career, and in this present stage of his career he has been unable to put up the offensive numbers expected of him in Calgary. He has, as such, been considered a dud there. His acquisition was meant to make Phaneuf expendable, and in this he has thus far been a failed project.

And whose numbers should improve when they go to Calgary, you ask? Certainly the numbers of someone going from a bottom feeder to a quasi-contender should at least remain consistent even if they don't rise.

sure he is overpaid. sure he has not lived up to the hype in calgary. but answer me these:

what defenders on our roster are better than bouwmeester?

what other top pairing defenders are realistically available?

to me the answers to those question are kronwall and probably no one.

bouwmeester to me is a top pairing guy. sure everyone likes to complain that all he does is eat minutes. but when he is on the ice, so is the opponents top line. aside from this past year, he has had a decent plus minus, which means when he is on against those top lines, its an even matchup. to me thats saying something considering the bad teams he has played on. and while calgary is a quasi contender, do you have any idea who he has played with? this past year it was chris butler. i would imagine most have never really heard of him. he played a year with regehr who is at least decent, and his first year in calgary was with giordano who at the time was a nobody. it was the good year they had together that catapulted him into top 4 status.

and if you really think what happened in florida is irrelevant, this conversation has zero value. those years provide context into what he is capable of. and if you can't recognize that, you have no interest in hearing anyones opinion but your own. everyone loves to talk about how players benefited over the years from playing with lidstrom; that fact gave context to the numbers players put up. its the same situation here.

bottom line is that jay bouwmeester has spent the last 7 years playing top pairing minutes, usually putting up top end offensive numbers, and playing well enough defensively that he has had solid plus/minus numbers when he is normally without top quality linemates.

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sure he is overpaid. sure he has not lived up to the hype in calgary. but answer me these:

what defenders on our roster are better than bouwmeester?

what other top pairing defenders are realistically available?

to me the answers to those question are kronwall and probably no one.

bouwmeester to me is a top pairing guy. sure everyone likes to complain that all he does is eat minutes. but when he is on the ice, so is the opponents top line. aside from this past year, he has had a decent plus minus, which means when he is on against those top lines, its an even matchup. to me thats saying something considering the bad teams he has played on. and while calgary is a quasi contender, do you have any idea who he has played with? this past year it was chris butler. i would imagine most have never really heard of him. he played a year with regehr who is at least decent, and his first year in calgary was with giordano who at the time was a nobody. it was the good year they had together that catapulted him into top 4 status.

and if you really think what happened in florida is irrelevant, this conversation has zero value. those years provide context into what he is capable of. and if you can't recognize that, you have no interest in hearing anyones opinion but your own. everyone loves to talk about how players benefited over the years from playing with lidstrom; that fact gave context to the numbers players put up. its the same situation here.

bottom line is that jay bouwmeester has spent the last 7 years playing top pairing minutes, usually putting up top end offensive numbers, and playing well enough defensively that he has had solid plus/minus numbers when he is normally without top quality linemates.

Kronwall, Quincey, and Ericsson are better

Smith and Kindl might be

Solid +/-??? He was a -21 last year and is -54 in his career

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Kronwall, Quincey, and Ericsson are better

Smith and Kindl might be

Solid +/-??? He was a -21 last year and is -54 in his career

Kronwall I can agree with, but Quincey, and Ericsson - no way.

As Dobbles rightfully pointed out - JBo plays top pairing minutes; plays against the other teams top line; has had "so-so" defense partners in the past few years; he's on a rather "so-so" Flames.

The guy has a ton of skill, but isn't physical enough, nor generates enough offense to meet the critics high expectations courtesy of his bloated contract.

With all that said - his 2 years left isn't as big of a anchor on the shoulders of Holland as some would think, and he does have the athletic prowess to play the puck possession game that Detroit will most likely keep playing for some time.

EDIT - it's been beaten to death, but the whole +/- stat may not always indicate the true qualities a certain player could bring to any NHL franchise.

Edited by F.Michael

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Bouwmeester is one of those defensemen who you wish you could get more out of. When he had his best season before he signed with Calgary, he got a great payday from the Flames. Now, the Flames are looking to unload him and with his salary, he is good trade bait. I still think that our young guns have more upside that Bouwmeester. Yes, they will make mistakes, but I don't think that Bouwmeester is the answer. He is good, but not a great or elite defenseman. IMHO, he isn't worth the trade.

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Kronwall, Quincey, and Ericsson are better

Smith and Kindl might be

Solid +/-??? He was a -21 last year and is -54 in his career

wow, i really shouldnt even respond to this as it is just ridiculous to imply that jonathon ericsson is better than jay bouwmeester... and kindl MIGHT be? i love kindl and hope he takes a huge step, but all he is right now is a first round dud with 17 career points. i am all about differing opinions. if someone wants to make an argument for white or quincey thats one thing. but jakub kindl? either you have very little grasp of hockey or are just trolling. either way, it serves no purpose to the discussion.

but i did want to clarify the plus/minus thing. in my first post, i noted that this past season it was terrible, and when i said it was decent i was talking about since the lockout. just about all the numbers i gave was since the lockout which i believe is representative of his game. in those 7 years, he is a combined -10. thats not too bad considering the teams he played on.

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This is one trade that we should most definitely not be overpaying on. JBo is solid but not elite and not worth overpayment. Id be happy to have him if it doesnt hurt the team bu acquiring him. Our top assets should only be used to acquire elite players as we dont exactly have a plethora of tradeable assets right now.

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