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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Stupid thing to say, obviously, but when you take away someone's livelihood, it's not surprising that tempers flare up a bit.

Bolland did not say that, he just re-tweeted it (is that even a word?) so I guess he saw a "tweet" used something we call "forward option" in emails. So basically he just forwarded it, I really don't see why people are jumping at him? I really think people should stop reading more into comments than they really are, when a fan is saying "I want Bettman dead" it basically means he wants him gone from hockey and not murdered or anything like that.

Sometimes an easy approach is just the better one.

Edited by frankgrimes

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At this point, the first person for take an upper decker in Bettmans flusher, steak dinner on me

On a more serious note... I really do the growing pains from this lockout will end all future lockouts... If it does and the dynamics of politics to help the game actually do improve, the wait will be worth it

Edited by Rivalred

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Bolland did not say that, he just re-tweeted it (is that even a word?) so I guess he saw a "tweet" used something we call "forward option" in emails. So basically he just forwarded it, I really don't see why people are jumping at him? I really think people should stop reading more into comments than they really are, when a fan is saying "I want Bettman dead" it basically means he wants him gone from hockey and not murdered or anything like that.

Sometimes an easy approach is just the better one.

not the point. these guys are professional athletes who know they closely followed by the media and anything they say will be closely scrutinized. so bolland should know that people are going to take a wanting bettman dead tweet as him actually threatening bettman's life, even if bolland didn't mean it like that. these guys are professional athletes. they need to act like it, at least in public anyways. especially in times like these where the relationship between the nhl and pa is so dysfunctional.

the easiest approach is to just keep your mouth shut to the media and voice your concerns in pa meetings and conference calls.

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Stupid thing to say, obviously, but when you take away someone's livelihood, it's not surprising that tempers flare up a bit.

Welcome to the forum, wish it was under better circumstances. I agree, the players have a right to be upset. I am pretty discouraged, myself, with each day bringing more bad news. I can easily imagine this situation lasting more than just this season.

I am even watching football, I am so bored. :eh:

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Guest Playmaker

Welcome to the forum, wish it was under better circumstances. I agree, the players have a right to be upset. I am pretty discouraged, myself, with each day bringing more bad news. I can easily imagine this situation lasting more than just this season.

I am even watching football, I am so bored. :eh:

Thanks, puckloo. Hope to be able to discuss actual hockey games soon. I agree, this is getting more discouraging and frustrating by the day. Football?? That's not so bad, I actually sat through an entire episode of X Factor... :scared:

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the problem is, i don't see the owners caving into decertification like the nba and nfl did. nhl owners already shown once that they are willing to lose an entire season. i think they will be willing to do it again.

If the union goes that route, i think it will only galvanize the owners and make them dig in even deeper, similar to what the owners first lowball offer did to the players. I sure hope i am wrong

If union is decertified then, as I understand it, the whole CBA issue goes away because without union there is no CBA. No need to discuss salary cap, revenue split or free agency. There are just individual hockey teams and individual hockey players which are free to negotiate contracts under existing laws (US or Canadian depending on location I would guess). I am not certain what becomes of the existing contracts in that scenario.

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If union is decertified then, as I understand it, the whole CBA issue goes away because without union there is no CBA. No need to discuss salary cap, revenue split or free agency. There are just individual hockey teams and individual hockey players which are free to negotiate contracts under existing laws (US or Canadian depending on location I would guess). I am not certain what becomes of the existing contracts in that scenario.

but without the cba, there most likely won't be guaranteed contracts, pensions, health benefits , minimum salaries, etc. will the players be willing to play for the owners without any of those perks. i doubt it.

here's a good article on the decertification process

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...-questions.html

Edited by chances14

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Personally I'd love it, it would mean once again 30 own businesses instead of a roof holding NHL and finally very very very very nice UFA and draft days again.

For us as Red Wings fans the best owner in hockey would be finally able to throw around his wealth again, or does anyone think we would be bystanders watching other teams getting the best players? Don't kid yourself if the owners are getting their will this time, they are going to ask for 60/40 and more ludacrist contract restrictions the next time, so if they want to play hardball I am happy that the players are going to do so to.

I thinkk as Red Wings Fans we would really really benefit from that :-)

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but without the cba, there most likely won't be guaranteed contracts, pensions, health benefits , minimum salaries, etc. will the players be willing to play for the owners without any of those perks. i doubt it.

here's a good article on the decertification process

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...-questions.html

Lack of CBA does not necessarily eliminate the perks listed above. But it would mean that each player would need to negotiate contract with the club very carefully and make sure that everything CBA used to cover is spelled out explicitly.

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Lack of CBA does not necessarily eliminate the perks listed above. But it would mean that each player would need to negotiate contract with the club very carefully and make sure that everything CBA used to cover is spelled out explicitly.

owners might be willing to dole out those perks for the superstar guys but i doubt they give them to the 3rd/4th line guys. lack of a cba would hurt them the most

Personally I'd love it, it would mean once again 30 own businesses instead of a roof holding NHL and finally very very very very nice UFA and draft days again.

For us as Red Wings fans the best owner in hockey would be finally able to throw around his wealth again, or does anyone think we would be bystanders watching other teams getting the best players? Don't kid yourself if the owners are getting their will this time, they are going to ask for 60/40 and more ludacrist contract restrictions the next time, so if they want to play hardball I am happy that the players are going to do so to.

I thinkk as Red Wings Fans we would really really benefit from that :-)

there would be no draft. all the top prospects would go to the highest bidder. the red wings would no doubt benefit from no cba, but the nhl wouldn't survive in the long run

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owners might be willing to dole out those perks for the superstar guys but i doubt they give them to the 3rd/4th line guys. lack of a cba would hurt them the most

there would be no draft. all the top prospects would go to the highest bidder. the red wings would no doubt benefit from no cba, but the nhl wouldn't survive in the long run

I hate to bring in other sports but look at the MLB, european soccer or some other non cap leagues they are all doing extremely well without work stoppages every 5 years.

The NHL will always ask and try different things in order to help very questionable markets, the truth of the matter is there are always going to be huge differences in terms of fanbase, revenue and the amount of $ a team can charge for tickets. I mean, after all this league has 30 teams and each team should be responsible for themselves. Decertification would also lead to finally seeing Bettman canned, without draf t, CBA, rights and whatsoever there really is no need for a commissioner and yes without the NHLPA Fehr would be gone too.

Owners would then compete with money, rights and nice clauses for the top players and even decent ones would get very good jobs, sure some teams would relocate or fold but thats part of the business.

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I hate to bring in other sports but look at the MLB, european soccer or some other non cap leagues they are all doing extremely well without work stoppages every 5 years.

The NHL will always ask and try different things in order to help very questionable markets, the truth of the matter is there are always going to be huge differences in terms of fanbase, revenue and the amount of $ a team can charge for tickets. I mean, after all this league has 30 teams and each team should be responsible for themselves. Decertification would also lead to finally seeing Bettman canned, without draf t, CBA, rights and whatsoever there really is no need for a commissioner and yes without the NHLPA Fehr would be gone too.

Owners would then compete with money, rights and nice clauses for the top players and even decent ones would get very good jobs, sure some teams would relocate or fold but thats part of the business.

can't compare it to european soccer because that is by far the number 1 sport in the world, aside from north america. hockey can barely stay at the 4th spot in the united states. in mlb, there is still a draft, so small market teams can still have a chance of developing a good team before their star players get bought off by the big market teams.

the only players who would come out on top playing with no cba are the marquee players. the 3rd/4th liners would be screwed. i mean the players are complaining now about contracting issues. what's going to happen when the owners only want to sign these guys on a game by game basis? when they get hurt or don't perform, their money and contract goes out the window.

the last thing the players should want is teams folding, means less jobs for them.

Edited by chances14

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I hate to bring in other sports but look at the MLB, european soccer or some other non cap leagues they are all doing extremely well without work stoppages every 5 years.

The NHL will always ask and try different things in order to help very questionable markets, the truth of the matter is there are always going to be huge differences in terms of fanbase, revenue and the amount of $ a team can charge for tickets. I mean, after all this league has 30 teams and each team should be responsible for themselves. Decertification would also lead to finally seeing Bettman canned, without draf t, CBA, rights and whatsoever there really is no need for a commissioner and yes without the NHLPA Fehr would be gone too.

Owners would then compete with money, rights and nice clauses for the top players and even decent ones would get very good jobs, sure some teams would relocate or fold but thats part of the business.

Well...not entirely true. Most 'top' teams are in great debt. Most owners invest hundereds of millions in players, once an owner leaves...no more team.

The problem in European soccer is that the FIFA and UEFA do not have the balls to stand up to the teams with great debts.

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Guest Kronstantinov

The players are actually being generous, helping the owners pay for contracts they offered in the first place but couldn't afford.

The owners doing well can afford to contribute as well. After all they are the ones that hired Bettman and went along with his overzealous schemes for growing the league

Edited by Kronstantinov

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Bolland did not say that, he just re-tweeted it (is that even a word?) so I guess he saw a "tweet" used something we call "forward option" in emails. So basically he just forwarded it, I really don't see why people are jumping at him? I really think people should stop reading more into comments than they really are, when a fan is saying "I want Bettman dead" it basically means he wants him gone from hockey and not murdered or anything like that.

Sometimes an easy approach is just the better one.

And what would you say if it were an owner calling out the NHLPA or retweeting that a fan said he wishes Fehr dead or some of the players that have been vocal? And how do you know what the fan is thinking? I'm sure there are fans out there that generally wish harm to come to the owners and or "Buttman" dur dur.

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So, if the lockout ends the entire season how do they market next year's video games? Won't they have to be the same as this year's? No new NHL stats. What about a cover? I don't remember what they did the last time.

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Well...not entirely true. Most 'top' teams are in great debt. Most owners invest hundereds of millions in players, once an owner leaves...no more team.

The problem in European soccer is that the FIFA and UEFA do not have the balls to stand up to the teams with great debts.

We might be going off-topic here, but quite a few of the 'top' European soccer clubs have been in existence for more than a century. So I am not certain that "once an owner leaves...no more team" is a valid comment.

I am not sure why FIFA or UEFA have much influence about finance of soccer clubs. Unlike NHL these are governing bodies, which are not generally concerned with the business side of the game of association football. IIHF would be the hockey counterpart.

It would be interesting to compare European soccer leagues with the North American sports leagues. I do not think such things as CBA, salary cap, draft and the rests exist in soccer (excluding MLS here, I think I follows North American model).

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Guest Playmaker

I'm not a big basketball fan, but wasn't the NBA lockout resolved soon after de-certification was granted? Or was that the NFL? In any case, I hope it happens with the NHL as well.

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We might be going off-topic here, but quite a few of the 'top' European soccer clubs have been in existence for more than a century. So I am not certain that "once an owner leaves...no more team" is a valid comment.

I am not sure why FIFA or UEFA have much influence about finance of soccer clubs. Unlike NHL these are governing bodies, which are not generally concerned with the business side of the game of association football. IIHF would be the hockey counterpart.

It would be interesting to compare European soccer leagues with the North American sports leagues. I do not think such things as CBA, salary cap, draft and the rests exist in soccer (excluding MLS here, I think I follows North American model).

honestly i don't know much about how the european leagues work.

however i did find this article dated last year in which a salary cap was discussed to help curb english soccer team debt crisis. Also, unlike the nhl, there is more than one big league in europe that is attractive to the big name players, thus creating competition. and like i said before, soccer is by far the number 1 sport across europe. people will watch teams regardless. hockey can barely keep the 4th spot in the united states.

here's another article talking about a spending cap in the premier league from august of this year

http://soccernet.esp...ap-plan?cc=5901

Edited by chances14

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Here is a Wikipedia article about financial regulations in European soccer. Actually it is a lot more regulated than I would have expected. In France, for example,

The Direction Nationale du Contrôle de Gestion (DNCG) is responsible for administering, monitoring, and overseeing the accounts of all professional clubs to ensure that owners are being financially prudent.

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Here is a Wikipedia article about financial regulations in European soccer. Actually it is a lot more regulated than I would have expected. In France, for example,

from that article, it looks like the european soccer leagues aren't in very good shape financially across the board.

Edited by chances14

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Guest irishock

? Mod Warning posts? European soccer?

Jesus Christ, the lockout is killing the community.

Edited by irishock

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I've never been able to understand the European cap rules and financial fair play. All I know is that teams are buying players like crazy, while lesser clubs even in the top tier have no chance of ever challenging for the league.

I'm not sure if the NHL would want to go that route at this point.

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When are the players going to grow up and stop being so unprofessional?

As the lockout continues to drag on, Bolland on Friday reposted a Twitter entry that read: "can I get a RT for wanting Bettman dead?"

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/story/_/id/8668147/dave-bolland-chicago-blackhawks-retweets-message-wanting-gary-bettman-dead

I hope more players speak out against Bettman. The owners should too.

So I hear the Leafs and Red Wings are against the Lockout and want to play. How many Leagues, when their two best teams wanting to play, aren't being listened to by the man they employ? If the Yankees and Red Sox don't agree with a Lockout, Selig would listen. If the Lakers and Knicks don't agree with a Lockout, David Stern would listen. If the Patriots and Packers don't agree with a Lockout, Roger Goodell would listen. Only in the NHL would a little twerp go against what his two richest teams are saying. It's one of the reasons why ESPN told the NHL "nuts to you", and NBC Sports and all the major American TV Networks will do the same thing.

The NHL is going to rot. The only way I think the Owners can save the League is if they fire Bettman. I don't see how he can continue as commish after all this, and how he could present another Stanley Cup without starting a riot in the building when fans try and get him. He'll either start a riot, or he'll hear crickets chirping because the arena will be empty.

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If anyone complaining about this thread right now attends a single NHL game in the next seven years, then they are fake raging in here. I know I am going to put my money where my mouth is.

No more NHL Center Ice

No more buying tickets to NHL games

No more buying NHL merchandise

The NHL, players and owners, can go f*** themselves.

If with you man. I've decided I'll only comeback if Bettman's gone. I'm not interested in following this League anymore with him in charge. He makes me so angry that it's not worth it. Baseball and Football can be my 2 main sports now, Hockey can suck it.

I've actually been seriously thinking of taking down all my Red Wings stuff I have up in my house and redecorating. It pains me to have to do that, because this team has meant so much to me the past 20 years, but I've just had enough. I'd rather just move on and not see anything Hockey related anymore.

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