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Who is the Best Russian the Wings Have Ever Had?

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Best All-Time Russian Red Wing   120 members have voted

  1. 1. Whos is the all-time best Russian Red Wing


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104 posts in this topic

Lidstrom might not have won all those Norris Trophies if Konstantinov's career wasn't ended.

I think Fedorov was great but Datsyuk's much better

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overall? or what category. they had their roles and each brought a skillset to the table. hard to put some ahead of others because of that.

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Fedorov in his prime, no question. One of the few players where you felt like something big was going to happen every time he got possession of the puck.

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Danny Markov.......wait....best russian? Oh, I voted for Datsyuk. I'm a little bias here as he is my favorite player ever, and as Im only 24y/o I don't really remember Feds or Vladdy when they were tearing up the league. But from the highlights I've seen on YouTube and what some of you have said on here, if I were 10 years older I might have votes for Vladdy. I mean, people say he would, not could, have been the greatest dman to ever play.

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Depends what exactly you are asking. Are we talking their entire professional careers or simply how they performed in the Winged Wheel?

Based on simply their NHL careers, since that is all I have witnessed, it comes down to Fedorov and Datsyuk for me. As for Konstantinov, I believe it is because his career was cut short that he should not be in the discussion rather than because his career was cut short he should be in the discussion. Potential to win Norris' is just that, potential.

Fedorov > Datsyuk. More goals, more points, faster/better skater, better playoff performer, and based on Bowman's assertion that Fedorov could have won a Norris Trophy had he played defense for an entire season, I'll give Fedorov the nod on play in his own zone as well. As for physicality, both possess(ed) the goods to give it as much as take it, but Fedorov showed this side more often. As electrifying as Datsyuk is, it's easy to forget that Fedorov possessed immense amounts of flair as well in the 90's due to how he is poo poo'd by fans because of how he left the team.

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Fedorov > Datsyuk. More goals, more points, faster/better skater, better playoff performer, and based on Bowman's assertion that Fedorov could have won a Norris Trophy had he played defense for an entire season, I'll give Fedorov the nod on play in his own zone as well. As for physicality, both possess(ed) the goods to give it as much as take it, but Fedorov showed this side more often. As electrifying as Datsyuk is, it's easy to forget that Fedorov possessed immense amounts of flair as well in the 90's due to how he is poo poo'd by fans because of how he left the team.

I have to give the edge to Fedorov due to his flair

office-space-flair.png

I believe the minimum amount is 37 pieces

Edited by ogreslayer

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Depends what exactly you are asking. Are we talking their entire professional careers or simply how they performed in the Winged Wheel?

Based on simply their NHL careers, since that is all I have witnessed, it comes down to Fedorov and Datsyuk for me. As for Konstantinov, I believe it is because his career was cut short that he should not be in the discussion rather than because his career was cut short he should be in the discussion. Potential to win Norris' is just that, potential.

Fedorov > Datsyuk. More goals, more points, faster/better skater, better playoff performer, and based on Bowman's assertion that Fedorov could have won a Norris Trophy had he played defense for an entire season, I'll give Fedorov the nod on play in his own zone as well. As for physicality, both possess(ed) the goods to give it as much as take it, but Fedorov showed this side more often. As electrifying as Datsyuk is, it's easy to forget that Fedorov possessed immense amounts of flair as well in the 90's due to how he is poo poo'd by fans because of how he left the team.

Fedorov scored more goals and points because the goalie equipment is so much bigger now

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I have to give the edge to Fedorov due to his flair

office-space-flair.png

I believe the minimum amount is 37 pieces

:lol: well done, sir.

Fedorov scored more goals and points because the goalie equipment is so much bigger now

I'm so tired of this lazy argument. The average goals scored per game has been higher throughout Datsyuk's career than it was during Fedorov's.

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php

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Definitely not the case. He played in a lower scoring time period after the advent of the butterfly style. Plus, Fedorov was playing in the clutch and grab era and would still go end to end. Some of you younger guys should watch a couple archived games. He was so dominant and such a good skater that you didn't even need a number on his back to identify him out there.

Edited by The Nephilim

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:lol: well done, sir.

I'm so tired of this lazy argument. The average goals scored per game has been higher throughout Datsyuk's career than it was during Fedorov's.

http://www.quanthock...oalsPerGame.php

That's funny. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there are way fewer goals scored now than for most of Fedorov's career, take a look at scoring leaders or goalie leaders

In 92-93 Fedorov's most productive season 7311 goals were scored over 1008 games an average of 7.25 goals per game

In 08-09 Datsyuk's most productive season 7010 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.7 goals per game

In 11-12 6543 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.32 goals per game

Bettman allowed the goalie equipment to get bigger and bigger to restrict talent and skill for the sake of parity so weaker teams have a better chance of winning.

http://www.google.ca...u7U5WIw&cad=rja

Definitely not the case. He played in a lower scoring time period after the advent of the butterfly style Plus, Fedorov was playing in the clutch and grab era and would still go end to end. Some of you younger guys should watch a couple archived games. He was so dominant and such a good skater that you didn't even need a number on his back to identify him out there.

So many grass is greener on the other side people here. if Datsyuk played then and fedorov now most of you who say Fedorov would say Datsyuk.

You are stating that it was harder to score then. You're wrong about that too. I have posted a chart above do your research before you spout off nonsense. Any hockey fan with half a brain knows that there was a lot more scoring then than ther is now

Edited by Johnz96

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Forgive my over-sentimentality (is that a word?), but for me it is hands down Feds. I used to love watching him just *skate*. He was one of those players that if you disguised him in every way--no number or name on the jersey, face obscured, etc--I could still tell who it was just by the way he moved on the ice. Maybe it's because I was younger and more impressionable, but I agree with The Nephilim that you just would get a feeling that awesomeness was about to ensue when he would step on the ice.

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Forgive my over-sentimentality (is that a word?), but for me it is hands down Feds. I used to love watching him just *skate*. He was one of those players that if you disguised him in every way--no number or name on the jersey, face obscured, etc--I could still tell who it was just by the way he moved on the ice. Maybe it's because I was younger and more impressionable, but I agree with The Nephilim that you just would get a feeling that awesomeness was about to ensue when he would step on the ice.

I think everything you said is more true of Datsyuk than Fedorov. Datsyuk has a word in the urban dictionary. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbandictionary.com%2Fdefine.php%3Fterm%3DDatsyukian&ei=qVRXUPGbNaeY0QHYn4CwBw&usg=AFQjCNGdwP2ZcTebCcCsO4pDD0KUVBifHg&sig2=jdCHtm1g5e_HKGvY7tmtDw

And do you think that it was harder to score then too?

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So many grass is greener on the other side people here. if Datsyuk played then and fedorov now most of you who say Fedorov would say Datsyuk.

You are stating that it was harder to score then. You're wrong about that too. I have posted a chart above do your research before you spout off nonsense. Any hockey fan with half a brain knows that there was a lot more scoring then than ther is now

So much for a gentleman-like discussion. You're right about scoring in the 90's. Albeit, it doesn't really seal the deal for you either (which was what you said to before you ran and "did your research" and edited your post). There are plenty of other reasons I voted for Fedorov. For one, how many Hart trophies has Datsyuk won? Fedorov was considered a dominating force in the league during his tenure.

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I think that regardless of how you match up their stats, an argument can be made for either Dats or Feds, which is why I feel this is a largely subjective, and again, sentimental poll. I love Dats, and am honored that he plays on my team. That being said, to me this isn't something I can be swayed on. To *me*, Feds is the best.

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Having watched them both for the entire career, I gotta go with Fedorov.

Datsyuk has more crazy moves that leave your jaw on the floor, but he's only shown flashes of the kind of dominance Fedorov had in his prime.

He was an incredible skater, good size, great shot. Feds won the hardest slap shot with 101.5 mph and won the fastest skater competition twice. Then there's the hardware. 2 Selke's, Hart, and a Pearson.

More than anything though, it's just from watching them both play. Datsyuk is amazing. Fedorov was even better.

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So much for a gentleman-like discussion. You're right about scoring in the 90's. Albeit, it doesn't really seal the deal for you either (which was what you said to before you ran and "did your research" and edited your post). There are plenty of other reasons I voted for Fedorov. For one, how many Hart trophies has Datsyuk won? Fedorov was considered a dominating force in the league during his tenure.

Datsyuk should have won some Harts and he still might. Datsyuk is considered a dominating force in the league and is arguably the best player in the world and has been for about a decade. In the current vote for EA Sports who should be the highest rated player Datsyuk is tops. He could easily score as much as Malkin and win Harts if he didn't play as defensively, which is what you have to do to win even more so now in Bettman's NHL than then.

Don't you think that if you were so grossly wrong about it being easier to score now, that it is just as likely that you are wrong about the players.

Datsyukian 143 up, 5 down

When your moves are so amazing beyond reason, the only way to describe them is datsyukian.

(deke, juke, dangle)

Origin: From the Detroit Red Wings forward Pavel Datsyuk, who has the best hands and moves in all of sports.

Example: Joey cut left with the football and made James fall flat on his face, what a datsyukian deke.

Check out Phil on the dance floor,he's amazing, he sure has some datsyukian dance moves.

Jorge put Danny in checkmate with a great datsukian mov

Edited by Johnz96

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That's funny. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there are way fewer goals scored now than for most of Fedorov's career, take a look at scoring leaders or goalie leaders

In 92-93 Fedorov's most productive season 7311 goals were scored over 1008 games an average of 7.25 goals per game

In 08-09 Datsyuk's most productive season 7010 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.7 goals per game

In 11-12 6543 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.32 goals per game

Bettman allowed the goalie equipment to get bigger and bigger to restrict talent and skill for the sake of parity so weaker teams have a better chance of winning.

http://www.google.ca...u7U5WIw&cad=rja

So many grass is greener on the other side people here. if Datsyuk played then and fedorov now most of you who say Fedorov would say Datsyuk.

You are stating that it was harder to score then. You're wrong about that too. I have posted a chart above do your research before you spout off nonsense. Any hockey fan with half a brain knows that there was a lot more scoring then than ther is now

You're ignoring the height of the clutch and grab era. From 1998 to 2004 the scoring was roughly the same or lower than post lockout. So when Fedorov was 29 thru 35 years old, scoring was at the lowest it had been since the 50s.

It's not as simple as saying there was more scoring during Feds time. Scoring was at a low point during some of his prime years. The only seasons scoring was dramatically up in Fedorov's career relative to Datsyuk's was 1991-1994.

http://dropyourglove...eagueGoals.aspx

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There is more of a talent pool to choose from now and with the progress of the science of training and nutrition players are bigger, faster, stronger and better than they were even 10 years ago.

Datsyuk is arguably the best there is now and therefore possibly the best to ever lace up a pair of skates.

I think a lot of Wings' fans are taking it for granted that we may be watching the best that ever lived and Bettman is taking away one of his last years from us and he already took another.

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You're ignoring the height of the clutch and grab era. From 1998 to 2004 the scoring was roughly the same or lower than post lockout. So when Fedorov was 29 thru 35 years old, scoring was at the lowest it had been since the 50s.

It's not as simple as saying there was more scoring during Feds time. Scoring was at a low point during some of his prime years. The only seasons scoring was dramatically up in Fedorov's career relative to Datsyuk's was 1991-1994.

http://dropyourglove...eagueGoals.aspx

From 90-96 goal scoring was at or over 6 goals a game since then it's always been well under so Fedorov had 6 years with a lot more net to shoot at than Datsyuk has had. Best way to compare their stats would be how many times they were in the top 3, top 5, top 10 and top 20 in scoring. Because they're both great defensively (Pavel's got more Selkes) this could be a fair comparison. Fedorov also had the advantage of playing for the Wings before the salary cap.

I guess there is no way to prove if a player from one era is better than one from another (there's no way to prove it about players playing in the same era, I am sure most Penguins fans would disagree that Datsyuk is the best) but it certainly was a lot easier to score for at least 6 of Fedorov's season than it is now because they had a lot more net to shoot at. That's obvious, I thought everyone who is old enough knew that, even if you aren't old enough to have watched hockey before Bettman it is obvious by the stats

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Stats don't lie, goals per game was roughly the same or lower during Fedorov's prime years as they are now. Plus, Fedorov had ten 30+ goal seasons, two 100 pt. seasons, a Hart Trophy, and three Stanley Cups. He also won the Selke twice, and actually played defense for every team he was on. So it's not like the guy was Ovechkin during his career.

I know none of that is as legitimate as an EA sports poll or an urban dictionary entry, but it's pretty impressive none the less. Which reminds me, did I ever tell you guys about how my students once voted "The Fast and the Furious" as the greatest movie EVER made? Anyway, to sum all this up: something, something...appeal to probability...something something...psychologist's fallacy...something, something...you can't see the forest for the trees.

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From 90-96 goal scoring was at or over 6 goals a game since then it's always been well under so Fedorov had 6 years with a lot more net to shoot at than Datsyuk has had. Best way to compare their stats would be how many times they were in the top 3, top 5, top 10 and top 20 in scoring. Because they're both great defensively (Pavel's got more Selkes) this could be a fair comparison. Fedorov also had the advantage of playing for the Wings before the salary cap.

I guess there is no way to prove if a player from one era is better than one from another (there's no way to prove it about players playing in the same era, I am sure most Penguins fans would disagree that Datsyuk is the best) but it certainly was a lot easier to score for at least 6 of Fedorov's season than it is now because they had a lot more net to shoot at. That's obvious, I thought everyone who is old enough knew that, even if you aren't old enough to have watched hockey before Bettman it is obvious by the stats

I'm old enough to have watched Steve Yzerman play his first season as captain. Like I said initially, I've seen the careers of both Fedorov and Datsyuk. And Fedorov was a more dominant player.

As for your claims about league scoring:

In 1990, Fedorov didn't play in the NHL, so that season doesn't really matter.

In 2006 scoring was 6.176 goals per game, in 2007 it was 5.89, in 2009 it was 5.83, so it hasn't always been "well under" 6 goals since then.

In 1995 scoring was 5.97 goals per game. In 2006 it was 6.17.

1997 was about equal to 2007

1998, 99, 02, 03, and 04 scoring was lower than it ever has been since the lockout.

Like I said, the years where scoring was dramatically different between their two eras is from 1991 to 1994. 4 seasons. And Fedorov spent 7 seasons of his prime playing in an era where scoring was significantly lower than anything Datsyuk has played in. These last two seasons have been approaching the two higher years of the dead puck era.

I can understand having the opinion that Datsyuk was the better player, but it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about just because I disagree with you.

And more than just scoring, I'm basing it on watching them play in their respective eras. As I said earlier, Fedorov took over games in ways Datsyuk has only shown flashes of.

EDIT: another source I found about average NHL goals by season has the numbers are slightly lower for each season than what I stated but are still the same relative to each year. Everything is just adjusted slightly downward.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
so I hopefully sound like less of a jerk.

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if we're talking about best Russian during his Wings years... I think I'd also go with Fedorov, although it's nice luxury to have to chose between him and Dats.

if we're talking about best Russian player to ever play for the Wings... I don't think there many hockey players ever to have the immense talent Igor Larionov had. I might be biased but this guy was really the Big One, behind the iron courtain.

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I suppose you could say it's apples and oranges due to the time frame they both played in, but I have to vote for Pasha. Until he came along, I can honestly say I've never seen another player who could make my jaw hit the floor with frequency. He does it with alarming consistency. He's a sight to behold. I never felt that way watching Fedorov - he left me cold.

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Stats don't lie, goals per game was roughly the same or lower during Fedorov's prime years as they are now. Plus, Fedorov had ten 30+ goal seasons, two 100 pt. seasons, a Hart Trophy, and three Stanley Cups. He also won the Selke twice, and actually played defense for every team he was on. So it's not like the guy was Ovechkin during his career.

I know none of that is as legitimate as an EA sports poll or an urban dictionary entry, but it's pretty impressive none the less. Which reminds me, did I ever tell you guys about how my students once voted "The Fast and the Furious" as the greatest movie EVER made? Anyway, to sum all this up: something, something...appeal to probability...something something...psychologist's fallacy...something, something...you can't see the forest for the trees.

Stats don't lie goal scoring was much higher during Fedorov's first 6 years (when the league averaged over 6 goals a game), he scored more points in his first 6 years with the Wings than he did in the next 7 (in fact he only scored more than a point a game once after the league started averaging less than 6 goals a game),

I don't mind if you say you like Fedorov better but don't twist the facts and lie about them. That's very bettmanian of you

Edited by Johnz96

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Stats don't lie goal scoring was much higher during Fedorov's first 6 years (when the league averaged over 6 goals a game), he scored more points in his first 6 years with the Wings than he did in the next 7 (in fact he only scored more than a point a game once after the league started averaging less than 6 goals a game),

I don't mind if you say you like Fedorov better but don't twist the facts and lie about them.

Neat story. Go ahead a remove the first FIVE (in 1995 gpg was actually lower than some of the seasons Datsyuk has played in) seasons from Fedorov's goals, assists, and points totals and he's still a more prolific scorer for the remainder of his career. Remove roughly one third of his career and pretend it never even happened and he still scored more than Datsyuk has. Leave those same seasons in, but reduce the numbers by about .50 pts per game and he's WAY out front.

I'd recommend you ready Harold's post above...twice. From 1991-1994 gpg was higher than post lockout. 1995 was lower, 96 higher, 97 the same (roughly), and 98, 99, 2002, 2003, 2004 lower than they've been in 50 years.

No matter how you cut it your argument rests on nothing. Several people have already proved your "goals against was higher during Fedorov's career" hyperbole wrong, and so you're now resting this absurd argument on the already tenuous premise that if you exclude the most productive seasons of Fedorov's career then his numbers aren't as good as Datsyuk's, which would dubious even if it were true...but alas, like most good pipe dreams, it's simply a figment of your imagination.

Edited by kipwinger

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