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frankgrimes

Ryan Suter pissed off

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Illitch is a proven winner this guy wants to win first and then everything else. He paid record salaries for this team just to get a cup to Detroit on top of that he is paying for argueable the best management team, development and scouts in hockey. This is not a guy bitching over a few million bucks Mr. I is the best owner in all of sports and that is - mind you - for a reason.

Just look at the latest move by Dolan getting the KHL on MSG --->big f*** you to our midget there are owners who want to play, because they have established a fanbase, tradition its not their fault Bettman and the BoG accepted teams in very questionable markets if they go under, so what?` There is always the option called relocation.

I'd rather teams like Detroit, Toronto and Montreal spending the money on improving their own team and not wellfaring teams, so they are able to sign Weber to a ridiculous contract and beating us in the frist round of the playoffs thanks to the stupid revenue sharing.

Also there is a reason, why Meehans Agency is considered the best one, the agents are very knowledgeable tough negotiators and looking for the best interest of their client. Best example would be Brad Richards he could have made more elsewhere but chose the Rangers for a reason.

Anyway in the case of Suter he should be pissed about his agent first...

Edited by frankgrimes

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And the less jobs available for NHLPA members.

Whats your point? That doesn't have anything to do with what I said that you quoted, and I doubt Illitch could care less if the NHLPA members are out of a job if the teams that need to fold do. He is a business man, as I said. He didn't get to be as rich as he is worrying about things like that.

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nobody knows for sure if illitch is against/for the lockout. but his passion for his sports teams to win first and foremost is undeniable. it's what seperates himself from most other professional sports teams owners.

Edited by chances14

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nobody knows for sure if illitch is against/for the lockout. but his passion for his sports teams to win first and foremost is undeniable. it's what seperates himself from most other professional sports teams owners.

actually, there's been a few confirmed sources that have included the teams that were against the lockout. Reddit even had an executive (from an unknown team but confirmed with the mods) that included a list of the teams that were against the lockout and Detroit has been on everyone one that i've seen. I could see from both perspectives that Mr. I would be for, and against the lockout. While Detroit turns a profit, he would be comfortable as his franchise isn't one of the 18 that aren't turning one. On the other hand, he's apart of the owners that is dishing their profits to help recover the struggling teams. One of the main reasons why Mr.I wouldn't approve of this lockout is that his franchise is apart of the winter classic. Not just any Winter Classic but an O6 Winter Classic between two of the most historic franchises hockey has to offer. Mr. I and the City of Detroit are counting on this Winter Classic. The executive that did the AMA also included that the Winter Classic is the only televised revenue the league actually turns profit for. All the other televised games don't do anything revenue wise for them. He included that on his personal belief, the lockout would end before the Winter Classic just because the league can't afford to miss out on their only event that really helps turn them revenue.

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I don't really understand all this speculation about whether some owners are for or against the lockout. ALL the franchises voted for it, Jimmy D is the alternate governor for the Wings and it's pretty clear how he felt about it. I don't see any reason to believe that he and Illitch are too far off on their respective views of the lockout.

You might believe that there are extenuating reasons why an owner would vote against his best interests, but at the end of the day all that really means is that in a world with a lot of conflicting priorities, the owner of the Detroit Red Wings felt (after weighing all his options) that a lockout was better than playing the season. As did every other owner in the league.

We can't have our cake and eat it too. If the owners are the bad guys who don't care about the league, the fans, or the game, then OUR owner is a bad guy, who doesn't care about the league, the fans, or the game. And that's a pretty hard pill to swallow.

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I don't really understand all this speculation about whether some owners are for or against the lockout. ALL the franchises voted for it, Jimmy D is the alternate governor for the Wings and it's pretty clear how he felt about it. I don't see any reason to believe that he and Illitch are too far off on their respective views of the lockout.

You might believe that there are extenuating reasons why an owner would vote against his best interests, but at the end of the day all that really means is that in a world with a lot of conflicting priorities, the owner of the Detroit Red Wings felt (after weighing all his options) that a lockout was better than playing the season. As did every other owner in the league.

We can't have our cake and eat it too. If the owners are the bad guys who don't care about the league, the fans, or the game, then OUR owner is a bad guy, who doesn't care about the league, the fans, or the game. And that's a pretty hard pill to swallow.

you're right, it did take the owners to give bettman the clearance on starting the lockout. But you're wrong on the fact that after time passed with the lockout, owners can grow tired of it. It doesn't take all 30 owners to keep it on. It took 30 to get it started. Now there's a committee of only 4 owners with the league, they are responsible for what the owners say and do currently. As every report will tell you, all the owners are not on the same page right now. There's some that want out of the lockout, there's some that want the lockout to continue, and there's some that want to agree on different terms before the new CBA comes out. We can only hope and pray that either they can come together and find middle ground with the players, or we can kiss our season goodbye. I'm hoping that either they get their heads out of their asses, or they overvote and kick a new CBA without all the owners agreeing on it. I'm guessing it's the same way on the players side. Some agree, some want to play, etc. It's wrong to say every single owner feels the same way though, because they aren't all in the same boat right now. I'll dig up every source I can get when I get home, otherwise, we can agree to disagree or agree on that this lockout is retarded. And I hope this didn't come off aggressive or anything. Didn't mean so.

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actually, there's been a few confirmed sources that have included the teams that were against the lockout. Reddit even had an executive (from an unknown team but confirmed with the mods) that included a list of the teams that were against the lockout and Detroit has been on everyone one that i've seen. I could see from both perspectives that Mr. I would be for, and against the lockout. While Detroit turns a profit, he would be comfortable as his franchise isn't one of the 18 that aren't turning one. On the other hand, he's apart of the owners that is dishing their profits to help recover the struggling teams. One of the main reasons why Mr.I wouldn't approve of this lockout is that his franchise is apart of the winter classic. Not just any Winter Classic but an O6 Winter Classic between two of the most historic franchises hockey has to offer. Mr. I and the City of Detroit are counting on this Winter Classic. The executive that did the AMA also included that the Winter Classic is the only televised revenue the league actually turns profit for. All the other televised games don't do anything revenue wise for them. He included that on his personal belief, the lockout would end before the Winter Classic just because the league can't afford to miss out on their only event that really helps turn them revenue.

do you have links to these sources claming who is for or against the lockout.

i assume the reddit article you are refering to is this one

it does not state which teams are for or against it, just that there are 4 owners on the negotiating committee

Only four owners are on the negotiating committee. He named Boston's Jeremy Jacobs, Philadelphia's Ed Snider, Columbus' John McConnell and Minnesota's Craig Leipold. He says this is fair because when push comes to shove, the owners need to approve a CBA with a two-thirds vote.

keep in mind that this anonmoyous isn't one of the owners and he wasn't even 100% sure how many owners need to agree for a cba to be ratified.

but there was some good stuff in there i hadn't thought about before such as the legal ramfications of contraction and about the teams having to share revenue with other teams that use their building

Edited by chances14

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Huh?

Are you suggesting that if he signed with the Wings, that somehow the lockout wouldn't have happened?

Regardless who Suter signed with - there was gonna be issues with this CBA...

It must now sting for Suter since he went to Minny for the $$$, and not the potential for Cups...Surprise - surprise - there's gonna be another "rollback" in player salaries; once again guys like Suter/Parise must be shaking their heads for not taking a bit less, and signing on with a franchise that aims for the Cup year after year.

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Regardless who Suter signed with - there was gonna be issues with this CBA...

Exactly, thats my point.

It must now sting for Suter since he went to Minny for the $$$, and not the potential for Cups...Surprise - surprise - there's gonna be another "rollback" in player salaries; once again guys like Suter/Parise must be shaking their heads for not taking a bit less, and signing on with a franchise that aims for the Cup year after year.

I doubt they are shaking their heads about it. Why wwould they? They signed for the money. The rollbacks would be the same regardless of the tteam they signed for. Plus, they both knew there was going to be a lockout and rollbacks were pretty much guaranteed to be one of the things the owners demanded. (every player did) Why do you think they demanded such insane signing bonuses that would not be effected by any rollbacks or new CBA?

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Guest RedWingsDad   
Guest RedWingsDad

Exactly, thats my point.

I doubt they are shaking their heads about it. Why wwould they? They signed for the money. The rollbacks would be the same regardless of the tteam they signed for. Plus, they both knew there was going to be a lockout and rollbacks were pretty much guaranteed to be one of the things the owners demanded. (every player did) Why do you think they demanded such insane signing bonuses that would not be effected by any rollbacks or new CBA?

Exactly. In regards to the multitude of 11th hour deals that were struck any agent worth his salt negotiated for signing bonuses and general overpayment to compensate for probable rollbacks.

Shut up Suter.

Edited by RedWingsDad

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The Suter - Parise signing was the of the most efficiently choreographed soap operas in recent sports history, culminating with the date of the signing. Brilliant, just brilliant; they had the hockey world eating out of the palm of their hands.

Maybe he's read the Wikipedia entry on "Cognitive Dissonance".

Too bad, so sad.

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I don't really understand all this speculation about whether some owners are for or against the lockout. ALL the franchises voted for it, Jimmy D is the alternate governor for the Wings and it's pretty clear how he felt about it. I don't see any reason to believe that he and Illitch are too far off on their respective views of the lockout.

You might believe that there are extenuating reasons why an owner would vote against his best interests, but at the end of the day all that really means is that in a world with a lot of conflicting priorities, the owner of the Detroit Red Wings felt (after weighing all his options) that a lockout was better than playing the season. As did every other owner in the league.

We can't have our cake and eat it too. If the owners are the bad guys who don't care about the league, the fans, or the game, then OUR owner is a bad guy, who doesn't care about the league, the fans, or the game. And that's a pretty hard pill to swallow.

To be fair, we don't know what went on behind closed doors. There could have been 6 teams against the lockout, but that's clearly not enough to stop it. So at that point, as an owner, you'd probably vote in favor of the lockout in order to maintain relationships with the other owners that are essential to trades and business deals. It happens in politics all the time, if your vote won't matter, cast it with the majority.

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Why do you think they demanded such insane signing bonuses that would not be effected by any rollbacks or new CBA?

Is this factual?

I for one have no clue, but it wouldn't surprise me to see signing bonuses take a hit as well.

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Is this factual?

I for one have no clue, but it wouldn't surprise me to see signing bonuses take a hit as well.

yes it is. both suter and parise recieved 10 million dollar signing bonus checks prior to the expiration of the cba. the owners can't touch it.

Edited by chances14

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Mad much brah?

Anyhow, sure would've like to have Suter, but we will be fine with Kronner stepping up to a leadership role and getting 60-70 points, Smith is gonna become a stud and be better than Suter in the long run and there always getting ahold of Dekeyser (whom a ton of GM's want) and then in a few years Mike McKee. This is going to be one of the toughest defense's to play against in about 4-5 years and Suter will still be looking for a Cup and help on D because after him the talent fall way down to our #6/#7 depth... Poor Ryan...

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To be fair, we don't know what went on behind closed doors. There could have been 6 teams against the lockout, but that's clearly not enough to stop it. So at that point, as an owner, you'd probably vote in favor of the lockout in order to maintain relationships with the other owners that are essential to trades and business deals. It happens in politics all the time, if your vote won't matter, cast it with the majority.

So what you're saying is that at the end of the day it was more important for Mike Illitch to have a good working relationship with other owners than it was to make the fans happy, the players happy, and uphold the integrity of the game and league we all love? I agree.

Edited by kipwinger

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So what you're saying is that at the end of the day it was more important for Mike Illitch to have a good working relationship with other owners than it was to make the fans happy, the players happy, and uphold the integrity of the game and league we all love? I agree.

What does that mean? If you're going to lose anyway, why wouldn't you try to preserve a good relationship with the other teams? You don't think the owners know how the vote is going to turn out before they have it. If Illitch found 2 or 3 other folks on his side, and the other 26 owners were all in favor, it doesn't make sense to shoot yourself in the foot going forward to no purpose.

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What does that mean? If you're going to lose anyway, why wouldn't you try to preserve a good relationship with the other teams? You don't think the owners know how the vote is going to turn out before they have it. If Illitch found 2 or 3 other folks on his side, and the other 26 owners were all in favor, it doesn't make sense to shoot yourself in the foot going forward to no purpose.

What it means is that at the end of the day, all the owners (including Illitch) felt like either 1) locking out, or 2) preserving their business relationships over the relationships they have with the players, fans, etc. If Mr. Illitch, or any other owner, was against the lockout and his first priority was to his players, organization, or fans, he would have gone on record by voting against this absurd lockout. He didn't. None did. So arguing back and forth about which (if any) owners are actually against the lockout is ludicrous.

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suter's rant is a very good indication that a few players understand what NHL is actually proposing. and also, which is much more important, this is an indication that union and its leaders have never been interested in educating its members.

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You obviously have no clue how the PA works. Players have stated times and times again, how good of a job Fehr has done to provide them with information.

Anyway Suter is easily better than all our defenders, the guy i s elite Kronner is a great second pairing guy so is White but we don't have a solid nr 1 pairing sadly.

Suter would have been a great addition

Sent from my BlackBerry

Edited by frankgrimes

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