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Guest The Axe

Howard = Average

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He's currently 29th in save percentage, 32nd in goals against average, and 15th in wins. I think I might have been generous in saying he's average.

What's the minimum number of games played in your sample?

MabusIncarnate likes this

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What's the minimum number of games played in your sample?

From NHL.com.

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From NHL.com.

Yes this is called "the source" but it doesn't answer the question of how minimum games played factor into these numbers. 14 goalies in front of Howard have played 3 games or less, which pretty much puts your statistics on Howard in the null and void column. He is currently in company with these awful goaltenders going by what you are looking at on NHL.com; Miller, Lundqvist, Ward, Backstrom, and Fleury. Statistically he's ahead of Quick, Bryzgalov, Smith, and Halak respectively.

So unless you are considering Yann Danis the best goalie in the league this year, who sits at number 1 on your list along with Chad Johnson and Darcy Krumper who also are on top of the list from your source, the numbers you offer are just flat out wrong. You can't really count one or two games played by backup goalies and throw Howard that far down the rankings, not quite how stats work in this argument.

dobbles likes this

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Yes this is called "the source" but it doesn't answer the question of how minimum games played factor into these numbers. 14 goalies in front of Howard have played 3 games or less, which pretty much puts your statistics on Howard in the null and void column. He is currently in company with these awful goaltenders going by what you are looking at on NHL.com; Miller, Lundqvist, Ward, Backstrom, and Fleury. Statistically he's ahead of Quick, Bryzgalov, Smith, and Halak respectively.

So unless you are considering Yann Danis the best goalie in the league this year, who sits at number 1 on your list along with Chad Johnson and Darcy Krumper who also are on top of the list from your source, the numbers you offer are just flat out wrong. You can't really count one or two games played by backup goalies and throw Howard that far down the rankings, not quite how stats work in this argument.

You make a valid point. So pick a number of games started that suits you and throw out the goalies that dont have that many. Say 7 or 8? He's still in the middle of the pack to low end. And he'd be lower in the win column if he wasnt starting every game. You cant dance around it much longer. He's getting exposed for what he is = a good goalie, which makes him average in the NHL.

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You make a valid point. So pick a number of games started that suits you and throw out the goalies that dont have that many. Say 7 or 8? He's still in the middle of the pack to low end. And he'd be lower in the win column if he wasnt starting every game. You cant dance around it much longer. He's getting exposed for what he is = a good goalie, which makes him average in the NHL.

He is a good goalie in the nhl, with poor defense in front of him. name 10 goalies that are "elite"

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He is a good goalie in the nhl, with poor defense in front of him. name 10 goalies that are "elite"

If 10 goalies are "elite" then they aren't really elite after all...

amato likes this

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While I concur with this regarding our D, I am all for giving Howard a break and letting M-Raz get about 4 or 5 games in a row so Jimmy gets that little (or huge) push he needs to "defend" his #1 spot. M-Raz is ready, and in two years he could very well be the #1 guy here. IMO he has more skills than Howard and is/will be the better of the two. Howard needs to sit and get angry about it and secure his job for the next couple of seasons...oh ya, winning big games in the playoffs once in awhile would help too...but that is a different book and right now this team is not in that story...

I agree. I would go as far as to say this is an experiment year and the 2 goalies can split time until Monster comes back and then get Mrazek carrying the load again in GR. I'm really liking what we're seeing from all the GR boys.

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I agree. I would go as far as to say this is an experiment year and the 2 goalies can split time until Monster comes back and then get Mrazek carrying the load again in GR. I'm really liking what we're seeing from all the GR boys.

Yes. The young guys are ready.

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It's fine to have an opinion but when you come off as you KNOW IT ALL and your opinion matters every time you post a thread? Yeah that says it all. Howard is average thread says it all. Thread should be locked in my opinion.

Next thing we will be hearing next year/season or this year is Dats or Z is average. Stupid thread tbh and I'm ashamed as a Wings fan to be posting in it. Night fellow Wings fans...

If that happens, it's the apocalypse and the world should probably blow up. i sincerely hope that if a thread comes up saying that Dats or Z are average that Matt makes the thread disappear FBI style, leaving no trace of its existence.

MabusIncarnate likes this

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I just dont see how he can be in the middle of the pack and not be called average.

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I just dont see how he can be in the middle of the pack and not be called average.

Agreed. He should be having shutouts with the stacked defense we have.

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Agreed. He should be having shutouts with the stacked defense we have.

Nonsense. If he were elite, he wouldn't need a defense at all!

:D

Edited by Crymson

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Howard has always been an average goalie. Doesn't mean he's horrible, just not elite, we never needed a goalie to be elite(2008 playoffs Osgood was damn near elite though) before cuz of the stacked Wings teams we've seen. Now with a hurt D and a sputtering offense its obvious. Personally Howard can walk after this season and I wouldn't care especially if this Mrazek kid plays well again. I say its time for the kids, let all the old guys go, I'd rather see the Grand Rapids Red Wings than the Berts and Clearys on this team.

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Howard has always been an average goalie. Doesn't mean he's horrible, just not elite, we never needed a goalie to be elite(2008 playoffs Osgood was damn near elite though) before cuz of the stacked Wings teams we've seen. Now with a hurt D and a sputtering offense its obvious. Personally Howard can walk after this season and I wouldn't care especially if this Mrazek kid plays well again. I say its time for the kids, let all the old guys go, I'd rather see the Grand Rapids Red Wings than the Berts and Clearys on this team.

Exactly how i feel.

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I just dont see how he can be in the middle of the pack and not be called average.

For the same reason why you can't look at Quick and Lundquist's numbers this season and call them both average/below average because they are in "the middle of the pack" also. Lundy is right there with Howard statistically, he isn't average, Quick's numbers are worse than Howard and he's not average. Statistics aren't accurate this early in the season, plain and simple. This is the point i've been trying to stress here. You base a Goalie's skill on play, performance, and how well they can keep you in a game, not early season statistics. You are judging purely on stats and the stats for the most part this year lie. Howard gave up 4 last night with 36 shots against, on paper that's an average performance. Watching the actual game and seeing how many were not his fault and lapses of defense tells the story differently, just about any NHL goalie would have allowed 3-5 goals last night regardless of who it was. If the title of this thread was "Our Defense = Average" you wouldn't read a single word of debate coming from me.

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I just dont see how he can be in the middle of the pack and not be called average.

Half of the team is injured

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We by far the worst Defense the wings have ever had and your blaming Howard it wouldn't matter who was in net they wouldn't stand a chance. We have no one that I would call a top four Defenseman

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We by far the worst Defense the wings have ever had and your blaming Howard it wouldn't matter who was in net they wouldn't stand a chance. We have no one that I would call a top four Defenseman

I am not blaming Howard for anything. Im saying he's average.

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May as well lock this ridiculous crap. It's not about opinion or unbiased debate anymore, it's officially turned into a contest.

I just like how Howard has the lowest stats of any team currently in a playoff seed, but others say blah blah blah. He's a good goalie. Not a great one.

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I can't believe this thread isn't locked yet.

Why? Its a very relevant point. Why dont you prove it wrong instead of griping?

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I just like how Howard has the lowest stats of any team currently in a playoff seed, but others say blah blah blah. He's a good goalie. Not a great one.

Doesn't mean s*** 14 games into the season

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Doesn't mean s*** 14 games into the season

In 10 games, we are halfway. Howard will be under 500 by then.

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