Holland looking around

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

Just heard per The Fourth Period that Holland has been working the phones "for the past couple of weeks" looking for "some secondary scoring help and a top-tier shutdown defenseman". I certainly agree with the first half, but the last part is only half of the defenseman we need. We have enough guys who claim to be good defenders who either A) can't stay on the ice or B) just aren't as good as they should be. That second half should go more like "a solid, top-pairing, two-way defenseman". Too bad those are about as rare as unicorns these days.

Edited February 19, 2013 by DetroitRedWings1993

[rick zombo 3,739]

Here's a link to the article you're referring too.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det130216.html

There's also a more recent article on Bouwmeester.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/cgy130218.html

Feaster would be looking for a young replacement on the blueline and a top prospect as part of a package for Bouwmeester.

I say: Nyquist + Kindl + Quincey. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Calgary can eat 35% of J-Bow's deal under the new CBA. This would cut his Red Wing cap hit to 4.2M or so.

Bouwmeester - Kronwall

Ericsson - Smith

White - Huskins

Cola/Lashoff

Looks OK, but if Calgary are serious about trading this guy, I'm sure Holmgren or Sather would over-pay, out-bidding Holland.

[Guest Johnz96]

Here's a link to the article you're referring too.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det130216.html

There's also a more recent article on Bouwmeester.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/cgy130218.html

I say: Nyquist + Kindl + Quincey. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Calgary can eat 35% of J-Bow's deal under the new CBA. This would cut his Red Wing cap hit to 4.2M or so.

Bouwmeester - Kronwall

Ericsson - Smith

White - Huskins

Cola/Lashoff

Looks OK, but if Calgary are serious about trading this guy, I'm sure Holmgren or Sather would over-pay, out-bidding Holland.

There is a reason Bouwmeester's teams have never made the playoffs with him on the team but have before he came there (Calgary) or after (Florida). He is a great skater, with good hands and reach who is soft and error prone. He is not an upgrade to what we already have and his contract would be an impediment for future moves.

[rick zombo 3,739]

There is a reason Bouwmeester's teams have never made the playoffs with him on the team but have before he came there (Calgary) or after (Florida). He is a great skater, with good hands and reach who is soft and error prone. He is not an upgrade to what we already have and his contract would be an impediment for future moves.

Like I said, Calgary can pay 35% of his cap hit under the new CBA. I think J-Bow is worth 4.2M.

He is most definately an upgrade to what we already have. Plus, he knows how to stay healthy.

[Guest Johnz96]

Like I said, Calgary can pay 35% of his cap hit under the new CBA. I think J-Bow is worth 4.2M.

He is most definately an upgrade to what we already have. Plus, he knows how to stay healthy.

Yeah by avoiding contact

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

"Looks OK, but if Calgary are serious about trading this guy, I'm sure Holmgren or Sather would over-pay, out-bidding Holland."

Good point. If there's a player to be had at all, Holmgren and Sather will jump in and offer the sun, moon and stars for him. That's the only problem. Seems like the only players the Wings could use or are rumored to go after are targets for GM's like Holmgren and Sather who will pay any price, no matter how ridiculous. A young defenseman and a top prospect is steep for an underperforming, irresponsible defenseman in the twilight of his career with a sickening cap hit.

"Like I said, Calgary can pay 35% of his cap hit under the new CBA. I think J-Bow is worth 4.2M."

Yeah, but would they? We can't just force them to pay that much of his salary. Bouwmeester is being shopped for two reasons, based on the asking price I've heard. One, they want to get younger and stockpile young talent and prospects for the future. Two, his production does not coincinde with his cap hit. They probably won't want to continue paying that large a chunk of his salary, if any at all.

Edited February 19, 2013 by DetroitRedWings1993

[metalkorn 45]

good to hear he is on the phones - you know, that being his job and all.

[rick zombo 3,739]

"Looks OK, but if Calgary are serious about trading this guy, I'm sure Holmgren or Sather would over-pay, out-bidding Holland."

Good point. If there's a player to be had at all, Holmgren and Sather will jump in and offer the sun, moon and stars for him. That's the only problem. Seems like the only players the Wings could use or are rumored to go after are targets for GM's like Holmgren and Sather who will pay any price, no matter how ridiculous. A young defenseman and a top prospect is steep for an underperforming, irresponsible defenseman in the twilight of his career with a sickening cap hit.

"Like I said, Calgary can pay 35% of his cap hit under the new CBA. I think J-Bow is worth 4.2M."

Yeah, but would they? We can't just force them to pay that much of his salary. Bouwmeester is being shopped for two reasons, based on the asking price I've heard. One, they want to get younger and stockpile young talent and prospects for the future. Two, his production does not coincinde with his cap hit. They probably won't want to continue paying that large a chunk of his salary, if any at all.

He's only 29.

[DSM 114]

I think the reason he is looking for big shutdown type dmen, is because that is probably what is going to become available as we get closer to the deadline. There are a handful of veteran dmen like that are slated to become UFA's this summer. A couple that I know of are Scott Hannan and Robyn Regehr.

I doubt Holland is looking for the type of deals that will cost him decent prospects or good roster players.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Yeah by avoiding contact

Kind of like Lidstrom.

I'm not a massive J-Bow fan, but if he could be had for Nyquist+Kindl+etc, then I think you'd have to make the deal.

Boumeester's > Quincey or Kindl or Lashoff or Huskins or White or Cola and is on par with Kronwall.

[DSM 114]

For all that are wondering, teams can retain upto 50% of a player being traded's salary.

http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/PDF/Summary-of-Terms-1-10-13.pdf

I think the biggest red flag for the Red Wings acquiring Bouwmeester would be his salary. For not exactly being a top pair dman, $6.8mil is a huge cap hit. Plus I doubt Holland would want to give up what feaster wants.

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

He's only 29.

Granted, but I just feel like he's started declining already. However, you bring up a very interesting point. At 29, he's not in the "slow decline" stage just yet. He should be entering his prime. He might just be the perfect "change-of-scenery" type of player. He's looked lightyears better under Hartley than he ever did under Sutter. He's a guy who can be a solid top-line, two-way D-man who logs a lot of minutes and stays consistently healthy. If he can continue improving, he might just be the guy.

[rick zombo 3,739]

For all that are wondering, teams can retain upto 50% of a player being traded's salary.

http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/PDF/Summary-of-Terms-1-10-13.pdf

I think the biggest red flag for the Red Wings acquiring Bouwmeester would be his salary. For not exactly being a top pair dman, $6.8mil is a huge cap hit. Plus I doubt Holland would want to give up what feaster wants.

Agreed. Also, as I said earlier, someone like Holmgren would.

[Richdg 267]

So what former RW's is Holland looking to bring back? That is the MO right?......LOL

I hope he starts the slow rebuild of the team, and doesn't take the band aid we just need a key vet here and there approach. We need more than that.

[DSM 114]

So what former RW's is Holland looking to bring back? That is the MO right?......LOL

I hope he starts the slow rebuild of the team, and doesn't take the band aid we just need a key vet here and there approach. We need more than that.

A "rebuild" is highly doubtful. Holland isn't going to gut the team for the sake of making trades.

A "re-tool" is more like it. Tatar, Andersson and Lashoff will all probably get spots on the main roster next season. He'll probably also add a couple of UFA's this summer as well.

[Richdg 267]

A "rebuild" is highly doubtful. Holland isn't going to gut the team for the sake of making trades.

A "re-tool" is more like it. Tatar, Andersson and Lashoff will all probably get spots on the main roster next season. He'll probably also add a couple of UFA's this summer as well.

That is a good way to win 30 games per season. Oh wait, the season is 82 games long.......

So is it Fleischman? Kopecsky? Who else have we traded away over the last decade and are still playing in the league?

[DSM 114]

That is a good way to win 30 games per season. Oh wait, the season is 82 games long.......

So is it Fleischman? Kopecsky? Who else have we traded away over the last decade and are still playing in the league?

I'm merely being realistic. I've seen the NHL13 fueled posts that you make around here, and it seems as though you may be new to this whole "Red Wings" thing... Even when things get rough, Holland has never resorted to huge shake up trades or "rebuilds" over his 15+ years as the Red Wings GM. I doubt he is going to start now, when the Red Wings are still well into the playoff race.

Funny, because after the 05/06 season when they lost Yzerman and Shanahan, people were making the same kind of posts about "rebuilds". Holland made barely any moves (none to replace Yzerman and Shanahan) that summer, and the team went to game 6 in the WCF the following season.

Edited February 19, 2013 by DSM

[FlashyG 1,799]

Bouwmeester would be more likely to make our defence worse than he would make it better. He would help the PP though.

We need someone who can cover for Kronwall's lack of defence and Bouwmeester isn't that guy, He's too much like Kronwall and would only increase our need for defensive minded D.

That is a good way to win 30 games per season. Oh wait, the season is 82 games long.......

So is it Fleischman? Kopecsky? Who else have we traded away over the last decade and are still playing in the league?

What makes you think you'd be better at managing an NHL roster than our current management?

[Richdg 267]

I'm merely being realistic. I've seen the NHL13 fueled posts that you make around here, and it seems as though you may be new to this whole "Red Wings" thing... Even when things get rough, Holland has never resorted to huge shake up trades or "rebuilds" over his 15+ years as the Red Wings GM. I doubt he is going to start now, when the Red Wings are still well into the playoff race.

Funny, because after the 05/06 season when they lost Yzerman and Shanahan, people were making the same kind of posts about "rebuilds". Holland made barely any moves (none to replace Yzerman and Shanahan) that summer, and the team went to game 6 in the WCF the following season.

Holland has never done a full rebuild, because he ahs never had to. we do now. When the captain and shanny left, we were still a loaded team. Which he did go out a couple of years later and added Hossa, rafalski etc too. Now wea re not a loaded team and we are tied by the cap.

As for new, LOL! I have been a RW fan longer than most on thsi forum have been alive.

[DSM 114]

Holland has never done a full rebuild, because he ahs never had to. we do now. When the captain and shanny left, we were still a loaded team. Which he did go out a couple of years later and added Hossa, rafalski etc too. Now wea re not a loaded team and we are tied by the cap.

As for new, LOL! I have been a RW fan longer than most on thsi forum have been alive.

The team wasn't exactly loaded up front, a lot of players ended up stepping up to fill the void.

Rafalski and Hossa were added by that "key vet here and there approach" that you lamented earlier.

How is this team not loaded? They have plenty of depth, which has kept them afloat as injuries have piled up. They also have a lot of good young talent that is showing that they are ready to make a contribution as well. There is absolutely no reason for a "rebuild".

I apologize if you are a long time fan. No offense, it just doesn't seem like it....

What makes you think you'd be better at managing an NHL roster than our current management?

Probably NHL13.

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

Alright, let's not throw our heads in the dirt and pretend our current roster is good enough to contend. I've seen Nyquist play, and I don't understand the hype. He just doesn't make much of an impact outside of a shot on goal here and there. Tatar has shown a little the past few games, but overall, I'm not overly-impressed. Andersson is probably a grinder, at best. The cream of our prospect crop, which I consider to be Calle Jarnkrok, Teemu Pulkinnen, and Ryan Sproul, are multiple years away from being NHL-ready. We lack the big-name prospects needed for a simple "re-tool" because we've gone so long without the draft picks required to draft "can't miss" talent. This team still has talent, but if we want to avoid another long period of struggling, we need to start drafting at or near the top of the order, and that means selling off big pieces when the time comes. Not now, and maybe not even in 2 or 3 years, but the time for a rebuild is coming whether we like it or not, and we need to prepare for it. We're very spoiled and we can't stay in "win-now-or-else" mode forever.

[Guest Johnz96]

Alright, let's not throw our heads in the dirt and pretend our current roster is good enough to contend. I've seen Nyquist play, and I don't understand the hype. He just doesn't make much of an impact outside of a shot on goal here and there. Tatar has shown a little the past few games, but overall, I'm not overly-impressed. Andersson is probably a grinder, at best. The cream of our prospect crop, which I consider to be Calle Jarnkrok, Teemu Pulkinnen, and Ryan Sproul, are multiple years away from being NHL-ready. We lack the big-name prospects needed for a simple "re-tool" because we've gone so long without the draft picks required to draft "can't miss" talent. This team still has talent, but if we want to avoid another long period of struggling, we need to start drafting at or near the top of the order, and that means selling off big pieces when the time comes. Not now, and maybe not even in 2 or 3 years, but the time for a rebuild is coming whether we like it or not, and we need to prepare for it. We're very spoiled and we can't stay in "win-now-or-else" mode forever.

People were saying the same things back in 06.

Nyquist hasn't had much of an opportunity to show what he can do. He has only played 12:22 in 2 games this yr., 10:35 in 18 games last year and 8:51 in 4 playoff games last year. His Points Per Minute played last year are identical to Datsyuk's in his rookie yr and Datsyuk was older than Nyquist is now. Datsyuk scored a point every 27.2 minutes played and Nyquist scored one every 27.1 mins played (which is actually better than O'Reilly who scored a point every 28.7 mins scored last year). When you play more usually scoring goes up at higher rate than mins played because of confidence, momentum and being a more important part of the team.

I watched Nyquist a lot with the Griffs and he will be a star and maybe even a great player if he works as hard as Datsyuk and Zetterberg did at their deficiencies. When the Griffs played the Barons the Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan line totally shut down the Barons NHL line of Eberle, Hall, and Paajaarvi as well as Justin Schultz while being dangerous offensively. They totally dominated them. Schultz did manage a PP goal late in the game with Eberle getting an assist but the score was already 5-1 and Nyquist and Tatar weren't on the ice.

.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Johnz96

[LeftWinger 5,129]

I say no to Bouw....if we are going to get rid of a high end prospect and two roster players, I think we should see what Winnipeg would want for Bogosian... I think he would be better than Bouwmeester. But as long as it's Quincey going back and not Smith or any other prospect D man.

Also, I think since he has had more time to impress and has taken advantage of that time, unfortunately the likes of Tatar would be the one that teams would inquire about...Nyquist hasn't been given the same opportunity to show his wares, so to say.

If we are trading Tatar, it better not be for Bouwmeester... I wouldn't mind seeing Holland get TWO defensemen...Bogosian and Visnovsky...

anyone know why Bogo has only played in 2 games?

[arag 308]

I say no to Bouw....if we are going to get rid of a high end prospect and two roster players, I think we should see what Winnipeg would want for Bogosian... I think he would be better than Bouwmeester. But as long as it's Quincey going back and not Smith or any other prospect D man.

Also, I think since he has had more time to impress and has taken advantage of that time, unfortunately the likes of Tatar would be the one that teams would inquire about...Nyquist hasn't been given the same opportunity to show his wares, so to say.

If we are trading Tatar, it better not be for Bouwmeester... I wouldn't mind seeing Holland get TWO defensemen...Bogosian and Visnovsky...

anyone know why Bogo has only played in 2 games?

He was just reactivated from IR

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Richdg 267]

The team wasn't exactly loaded up front, a lot of players ended up stepping up to fill the void.

Rafalski and Hossa were added by that "key vet here and there approach" that you lamented earlier.

How is this team not loaded? They have plenty of depth, which has kept them afloat as injuries have piled up. They also have a lot of good young talent that is showing that they are ready to make a contribution as well. There is absolutely no reason for a "rebuild".

I apologize if you are a long time fan. No offense, it just doesn't seem like it....

Probably NHL13.

Stop times I can understand that feeling. But I grew up in the 1970's and remember the Dead Wings all to well. Watching us play now is like watching a close family member slowly die. That does hurt and upset me, as it should all RW fans.