95 replies to this topic

[MidMichSteve]

Nice thread. It's great to be reading about the positives of the Wings' D. With all of the hits it's taken in the last few years, their future looks better than I ever could have imagined.

 

 

 

Now all we need is for a few players to put the puck in the net!

 

Edited by MidMichSteve, 01 March 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[beachwing]

Im a -37 arguing about +\-

[VM1138]

It's not an entirely useless stat, but like any stat, it can be misleading. By its very nature, the plus will be more relevant for a forward, and the negative will be more accurate for a defenseman. But at any rate, it's not perfect. If you have a high plus you should probably have a lot of points for it to indicate you were involved. Quincey's high plus hides the fact that he has not been a factor in many goals, which can be seen in his points. So Quincey's unique situation shows us how to interpret a plus minus.

[The Axe]

It's not an entirely useless stat, but like any stat, it can be misleading. By its very nature, the plus will be more relevant for a forward, and the negative will be more accurate for a defenseman. But at any rate, it's not perfect. If you have a high plus you should probably have a lot of points for it to indicate you were involved. Quincey's high plus hides the fact that he has not been a factor in many goals, which can be seen in his points. So Quincey's unique situation shows us how to interpret a plus minus.

Or maybe his solid neutral zone play keeps the puck on the other side of the red line where the forwards can pass to each other and gobble up the points. If the stat was so useless, they wouldnt keep it. Your argument fails.

[Richdg]

Yes The D has been improving. It started over the weekend, which I mentioned at the time. Kindl and Huskins played well together. The thing with Kindl everyone needs to remember is, he is only 25, not even close to his prime yet. How good was Ericsson 3 years ago? he was still making tons of mistakes. In fact, I think Kindl may be ahead of Ericsson at the same age.

As a goup: Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindle, lashoff, Smith, and Q are pretty good athletes. 5 of the 6 under 30. 5 of the 6 over 6ft tall. The only negative is, they are all lefthanded. If we are able to swap 2 for equal RH Dmen, we would be set. But that is about all we need on the blueline right now. They are mobile, big, enough toughness, and enough offense.

[Buppy]

The thing with Kindl everyone needs to remember is, he is only 25, not even close to his prime yet. How good was Ericsson 3 years ago? he was still making tons of mistakes. In fact, I think Kindl may be ahead of Ericsson at the same age.

As a goup: Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindle, lashoff, Smith, and Q are pretty good athletes. 5 of the 6 under 30. 5 of the 6 over 6ft tall. The only negative is, they are all lefthanded. If we are able to swap 2 for equal RH Dmen, we would be set. But that is about all we need on the blueline right now. They are mobile, big, enough toughness, and enough offense.

Just turned 26 actually. He should be ahead. Problem is he should be a lot ahead. Should be better than Ericsson by now. This is his 6th pro season and 3rd in the NHL. It's only Ericsson's 4th full year in the NHL. You expect better development from a 19th pick.

 

We already have to worry about growing pains with Smith and Lashoff, and a #2 man who's really nothing more than a decent #4, and Q not scoring... I appreciate your optimistic viewpoint, and I'm not saying our current group is terrible, but I think we need more than a swap for a couple equal RH's in order to be set.

[P. Marlowe]

MLive

 

“So this is the best our team has looked, in my opinion, all year. Not necessarily the way we've played, but the way we've looked.''

 

Okay, Mike. 

[number9]

Ericsson has become a beaut, can't rave enough about his play this year. But Kindl... I don't care if he's still developing, he doesn't belong on NHL ice right now.

[Konnan511]

Makes you wonder where Carlo Coca-Cola will fit in when he comes back?  

press box.

[rick zombo]

Ericsson has become a beaut, can't rave enough about his play this year. But Kindl... I don't care if he's still developing, he doesn't belong on NHL ice right now.

The ironic thing is that people were saying this 3 years ago about Ericsson.

[The Axe]

The ironic thing is that people were saying this 3 years ago about Ericsson.

3 years ago? He was the whipping boy last year. Some people on here dont know what they are watching. Kindl hasnt been on the ice for a goal against in 6 games, but people say he's a terrible defender. Its insane.

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

So what to do with Ian White then? I think Babs sent a clear message to him by playing Kindl twice with the full defense corps as opposed to getting White a game. Trade him? I like White, but he doesn't scream he's the kind of player who'd be alright sitting more times then not and waiting for a chance. With Colaiacovos return on the horizon as well, it leaves even more questions about Whites status with the team.

Edited by Detroit # 1 Fan, 02 March 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[Franzine]

MLive

“So this is the best our team has looked, in my opinion, all year. Not necessarily the way we've played, but the way we've looked.''

 

Okay, Mike. 

Sometimes he gets bored there behind the bench, checks out his guys.  Who are we to judge?

[haroldsnepsts]

3 years ago? He was the whipping boy last year. Some people on here dont know what they are watching. Kindl hasnt been on the ice for a goal against in 6 games, but people say he's a terrible defender. Its insane.

If you're basing that on his +/- then I understand why you think it's a meaningful stat.  You're misunderstanding how it works.

 

Here's the full context of Babcock's quote about the "best D" by the way. 

 

“I liked the fact that the D was big,'' Babcock said. “They could skate and they went back and got pucks and paid the price to move it and get it out. Did we make some mistakes? Absolutely. But I thought it was the best group that we had all year.

“At the start of the year we never would have thought about talking about Lash being with that group. He was good. I thought Kuba (Kindl), who has been hot and cold, was real competitive, and so overall that was the biggest plus for me as a coach, our back end.”

 

Kindl has been playing better.  But see the hot and cold part?  That's the whole problem with Kindl.  He needs to stay hot this time and hold a roster spot. 

[number9]

The ironic thing is that people were saying this 3 years ago about Ericsson.

I'm aware. I just hope we don't have to wait till Kindl is 29 for him to do anything worth while.

 

Maybe we should just give him a $3 million contract like Ericsson... then he'll magically evolve into a player worth that amount like Jonny

[haroldsnepsts]

I'm aware. I just hope we don't have to wait till Kindl is 29 for him to do anything worth while.

 

Maybe we should just give him a $3 million contract like Ericsson... then he'll magically evolve into a player worth that amount like Jonny

What's weird is even when Ericsson would play like a solid bottom pairing guy people would still want to tar and feather him, like they thought he was supposed to play like a top pairing or something.  Kindl on the other hand people seem really excited if he just looks decent for a stretch of games.  

 

I can't say I really ever understood it given their relative draft positions and potential. 

[kipwinger]

If you're basing that on his +/- then I understand why you think it's a meaningful stat.  You're misunderstanding how it works.

 

Here's the full context of Babcock's quote about the "best D" by the way. 

 

 

Kindl has been playing better.  But see the hot and cold part?  That's the whole problem with Kindl.  He needs to stay hot this time and hold a roster spot. 

 

To be fair, in his presser after the San Jose game Babcock singled out Kindl yet again for his play and did so without any reservations.  Two games in a row he was mentioned by name for his strong play. 

[haroldsnepsts]

To be fair, in his presser after the San Jose game Babcock singled out Kindl yet again for his play and did so without any reservations.  Two games in a row he was mentioned by name for his strong play. 

I don't disagree.  But earlier in the month he pointed out Kindl's bad play.  

 

Kindl has shown from the start he's capable of playing in this league.  For him though it seems to be the willingness and ability to do it for a whole season.  That's all I was saying.  

[The Axe]

I don't disagree.  But earlier in the month he pointed out Kindl's bad play.  
 
Kindl has shown from the start he's capable of playing in this league.  For him though it seems to be the willingness and ability to do it for a whole season.  That's all I was saying.  

He could score 20 pts this season and finish a +25. People would still be on his case.

[haroldsnepsts]

He could score 20 pts this season and finish a +25. People would still be on his case.

Probably because plus minus doesn't mean much of anything. 

 

If he keeps playing like he has the last couple games though, people will come around.