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Guest Crymson

Bouwmeester to Blues

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

How so? Bouwmeester's contract only had one more year left. Also, there is no single player available that will turn this team into a contender overnight.

If that player doesn't exist, then why give up assets for Bouwmeester when we've got so many puck movers already?

Jarnkrok and Ouellet are promising yes but outstanding? Time will tell. The thing about Jay Bouwmeester is, the guy has never played on a good team, Flames gave away Phaneuf for basically nothing after a few months and he played tons of minutes this season for Calgary according to Flamesfans without a doubt their best defenseman. Guy has 1 year left on his contract and would have easily become the Wings best defenseman, watch him blossom alongside Pietrangelo now, also Dreger mentioned the Wings management is crushed they didn't get him.

So even the higher ups thought highly of this guy and Bouwmeester would have been a great mentor for Dekeyser and Smith.

The Flames traded away Phaneuf after getting Bouwmeester, yes, though it was for other reasons, and the Flames got hosed on that trade (as usual). Whatever the case, Bouwmeester's acquisition was meant to make Phaneuf expendable, and it has failed in this regard. Bouwmeester, since arriving to Calgary, has not at all played up to expectations. Phaneuf has contributed far more to Toronto than Bouwmeester has to the Flames.

As for being the best defenseman on the team---does that really mean much when one is playing alongside the likes of Brodie, Wideman, Giordano, Butler, Smith, and Sarich? All of those guy are either past their prime or were not really great to begin with.

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Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun 3m

Wings were in it on Bouwmeester but not willing to move a 1st-rd pick in the package. Which frankly, for Detroit, was right call

I agree with Pierre

Don't mind that, as much as I wanted Bouwmeester, getting him for cheap because of his contract was important.

I'm actually glad we decided not to overpay, Bouwmeester is not worth that first this year unless the team eats salary.

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Oh I agree, I was just correcting the poster on the value of prospects. Jarnkrok and Ouellet are outstanding compared to Reto Berra who is a 26 year old Swiss goaltender that well very likely never make the NHL, and Cundari who is an ok AHL point producing defenseman that is 5'9, his ceiling is Derek Meech.

I mean come on, that return is just pitiful, and comparing Jarnkrok, and Ouellet to that? It's disturbingly inaccurate.

On Jaybo, I actually wanted him, mainly because I don't think Holland will use that cap space up in the off season, but I'll give him the chance to improve this team in other ways before I hold this against him.

I'm not comparing the quality of prospects. Before this trade happened no one had heard of these Blues prospects. If you had then my next question would be which NHL team do you scout for. People would have to google Jarnkrok to find out who he was. As Wings fans we may have high hopes for our prospects but lets be honest - most prospects don't pan out and that applies to all sports.

Back to the topic at hand I am disappointed that we couldn't swing a deal to land J-Bo. Bottom line - he would have upgraded our defense. I think its likely Flip walks (and we should let him at anything approaching 5 mil a year) and if that happens we wouldn't have that much cap trouble for the 1 year left on his deal.Our defense is young and has promise but needs a boost.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 3m

Wings were in it on Bouwmeester but not willing to move a 1st-rd pick in the package. Which frankly, for Detroit, was right call

I agree with Pierre

Interesting how Quincey was worth a first a year ago...and by interesting I mean nauseating!

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I'm not comparing the quality of prospects. Before this trade happened no one had heard of these Blues prospects. If you had then my next question would be which NHL team do you scout for. People would have to google Jarnkrok to find out who he was. As Wings fans we may have high hopes for our prospects but lets be honest - most prospects don't pan out and that applies to all sports.

No, not really. there are many scouting sources that have Jarnkrok and among the elite prospects. Sure a casual NHL fan wouldn't know anyone on their team's prospects pool. But I'm refering to scouting services, and people that get paid to make these lists and that take interest into prospects would know a defenseman on the QMJHL all star team and 2nd round picks.

Prospects don't pan out all the time, but that doesn't diminish their value. Fact is Ouellet and Jarnkrok's value is miles ahead of Berra, and Cundari just on just draft value alone, one is a 26 year old 4th round pick, another is a 20 year old undrafted 5'9 AHL player.

Edited by Carman

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I'm glad we didn't make the trade. I know people are upset that we have been quite once again, but if there were ever a year to be that way it would be this year. You don't make a move just to make a move.

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The more in-depth report from Lebrun:

And Detroit?

The Wings were in on Bouwmeester, but, in the end, they didn’t get him because they didn’t include a first-round pick, a source told ESPN.com.

Which quite frankly, is a smart, smart, smart decision by Wings GM Ken Holland.

Yes, Bouwmeester is the top-four D-man the Wings have been craving all year, but Detroit is not in a position organizationally to be trading first-round picks. They moved a first-round pick last year for Kyle Quincey when they still had Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart on the team and felt they had a shot to really contend.

But now? Of course they still like their team if they get healthy and make the playoffs, but this is an organization that needs to re-stock and use its own first-round picks to actually draft players.
They’ve been near the top of the standings for 20 years. It’s time to draft and develop again.
There is no way Holland could have ever justified moving a first-rounder to Calgary. What if the Wings miss the playoffs? Even had they structured the deal like St. Louis by deferring the first-rounder to 2014, who’s to say what Detroit is going to look like next season if they miss the playoffs this season? That pick could be even more dangerous to give Calgary.

My belief is that Detroit’s final offer on Bouwmeester was a second-round pick and two prospects. And frankly, that’s as far as the Wings could have gone.

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The more in-depth report from Lebrun:

And Detroit?

The Wings were in on Bouwmeester, but, in the end, they didn’t get him because they didn’t include a first-round pick, a source told ESPN.com.

Which quite frankly, is a smart, smart, smart decision by Wings GM Ken Holland.

Yes, Bouwmeester is the top-four D-man the Wings have been craving all year, but Detroit is not in a position organizationally to be trading first-round picks. They moved a first-round pick last year for Kyle Quincey when they still had Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart on the team and felt they had a shot to really contend.

But now? Of course they still like their team if they get healthy and make the playoffs, but this is an organization that needs to re-stock and use its own first-round picks to actually draft players.

They’ve been near the top of the standings for 20 years. It’s time to draft and develop again.

There is no way Holland could have ever justified moving a first-rounder to Calgary. What if the Wings miss the playoffs? Even had they structured the deal like St. Louis by deferring the first-rounder to 2014, who’s to say what Detroit is going to look like next season if they miss the playoffs this season? That pick could be even more dangerous to give Calgary.

My belief is that Detroit’s final offer on Bouwmeester was a second-round pick and two prospects. And frankly, that’s as far as the Wings could have gone.

Good Choice! Nice move Kenny

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How so? Bouwmeester's contract only had one more year left. Also, there is no single player available that will turn this team into a contender overnight.

We don't know if there isn't a player available, it doesn't always have to be an up coming FA. But yeah we probably won't make a move (I at least hope we get rid of some players)

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

because the price was right and he would improve the team. Simple as that.

At a 1st rounder in a deep draft, the price was not right.

The more in-depth report from Lebrun:

And Detroit?

The Wings were in on Bouwmeester, but, in the end, they didn’t get him because they didn’t include a first-round pick, a source told ESPN.com.

Which quite frankly, is a smart, smart, smart decision by Wings GM Ken Holland.

Yes, Bouwmeester is the top-four D-man the Wings have been craving all year, but Detroit is not in a position organizationally to be trading first-round picks. They moved a first-round pick last year for Kyle Quincey when they still had Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart on the team and felt they had a shot to really contend.

But now? Of course they still like their team if they get healthy and make the playoffs, but this is an organization that needs to re-stock and use its own first-round picks to actually draft players.

They’ve been near the top of the standings for 20 years. It’s time to draft and develop again.

There is no way Holland could have ever justified moving a first-rounder to Calgary. What if the Wings miss the playoffs? Even had they structured the deal like St. Louis by deferring the first-rounder to 2014, who’s to say what Detroit is going to look like next season if they miss the playoffs this season? That pick could be even more dangerous to give Calgary.

My belief is that Detroit’s final offer on Bouwmeester was a second-round pick and two prospects. And frankly, that’s as far as the Wings could have gone.

Agreed.

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We don't know if there isn't a player available, it doesn't always have to be an up coming FA. But yeah we probably won't make a move (I at least hope we get rid of some players)

My point was rather that there are several pieces missing, not just a top pairing defenseman or a top six forward.

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The more in-depth report from Lebrun:

And Detroit?

The Wings were in on Bouwmeester, but, in the end, they didn’t get him because they didn’t include a first-round pick, a source told ESPN.com.

Which quite frankly, is a smart, smart, smart decision by Wings GM Ken Holland.

Yes, Bouwmeester is the top-four D-man the Wings have been craving all year, but Detroit is not in a position organizationally to be trading first-round picks. They moved a first-round pick last year for Kyle Quincey when they still had Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart on the team and felt they had a shot to really contend.

But now? Of course they still like their team if they get healthy and make the playoffs, but this is an organization that needs to re-stock and use its own first-round picks to actually draft players.

They’ve been near the top of the standings for 20 years. It’s time to draft and develop again.

There is no way Holland could have ever justified moving a first-rounder to Calgary. What if the Wings miss the playoffs? Even had they structured the deal like St. Louis by deferring the first-rounder to 2014, who’s to say what Detroit is going to look like next season if they miss the playoffs this season? That pick could be even more dangerous to give Calgary.

My belief is that Detroit’s final offer on Bouwmeester was a second-round pick and two prospects. And frankly, that’s as far as the Wings could have gone.

As always great summary by Lebrun. I really wanted Bouwmeester on this team but not at the cost of a first round pick, thats why I've asked the question if the difference between a late first and an early second is that big. Detroit Red Wings are in no position to trade a first this or the next season, period though I think giving up two good prospects AND a second rounder would have been the better move for Calgary to take but whatever it is what it is.

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I'm not comparing the quality of prospects. Before this trade happened no one had heard of these Blues prospects. If you had then my next question would be which NHL team do you scout for. People would have to google Jarnkrok to find out who he was. As Wings fans we may have high hopes for our prospects but lets be honest - most prospects don't pan out and that applies to all sports.

Back to the topic at hand I am disappointed that we couldn't swing a deal to land J-Bo. Bottom line - he would have upgraded our defense. I think its likely Flip walks (and we should let him at anything approaching 5 mil a year) and if that happens we wouldn't have that much cap trouble for the 1 year left on his deal.Our defense is young and has promise but needs a boost.

Interesting how Quincey was worth a first a year ago...and by interesting I mean nauseating!

But all things don't remain equal to the year Quincey was traded (granted still over payment)

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The more in-depth report from Lebrun:

And Detroit?

The Wings were in on Bouwmeester, but, in the end, they didn’t get him because they didn’t include a first-round pick, a source told ESPN.com.

Which quite frankly, is a smart, smart, smart decision by Wings GM Ken Holland.

Yes, Bouwmeester is the top-four D-man the Wings have been craving all year, but Detroit is not in a position organizationally to be trading first-round picks. They moved a first-round pick last year for Kyle Quincey when they still had Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart on the team and felt they had a shot to really contend.

But now? Of course they still like their team if they get healthy and make the playoffs, but this is an organization that needs to re-stock and use its own first-round picks to actually draft players.

They’ve been near the top of the standings for 20 years. It’s time to draft and develop again.

There is no way Holland could have ever justified moving a first-rounder to Calgary. What if the Wings miss the playoffs? Even had they structured the deal like St. Louis by deferring the first-rounder to 2014, who’s to say what Detroit is going to look like next season if they miss the playoffs this season? That pick could be even more dangerous to give Calgary.

My belief is that Detroit’s final offer on Bouwmeester was a second-round pick and two prospects. And frankly, that’s as far as the Wings could have gone.

I just hope Kenny's crystal ball has some fresh batteries in it for this summer's draft...We really need to have some luck in finding those "diamond in the rough" types.

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At a 1st rounder in a deep draft, the price was not right.

.

we would have to disagree on that one. Even in a supposedly deep draft there is far from any guarantees that you will find a top pair defenseman in the bottom half of the first round. Anders Eriksson, Golubovsky, Kuznetsov, Wallin etc are proof of this.

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My point was rather that there are several pieces missing, not just a top pairing defenseman or a top six forward.

While I agree we do have some pieces missing, I will say the Wings are in a situation I have never seen a pro sports team in before. We have mutliple players in the minors who can contribute more so then active players on the roster. Other teams have had maybe a player, but we have about 3 or 4 in the minors who realistically could be better than 3 or 4 current roster players, it will be interesting to see once the rosters expand.

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As always great summary by Lebrun. I really wanted Bouwmeester on this team but not at the cost of a first round pick, thats why I've asked the question if the difference between a late first and an early second is that big. Detroit Red Wings are in no position to trade a first this or the next season, period though I think giving up two good prospects AND a second rounder would have been the better move for Calgary to take but whatever it is what it is.

That's just it...Outside of the top 3 to 5 players (even then the these guys may not amount to much) - are any of these 18 yr olds that much "better" than the other?

Some draft years it seems as though there's next to nothing in the 1st round, and it's the 2nd thru 5th rounders have a better chance of finding their way to the NHL.

We've seen Holland move his late 1st round pick for additional 2nd/3rd round picks...Not a bad move - that is unless you draft Emmerton over Lucic/Marchand.

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We've seen Holland move his late 1st round pick for additional 2nd/3rd round picks...Not a bad move - that is unless you draft Emmerton over Lucic/Marchand.

There is still time, come on Emmerton I believe in you!

... :confused:

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Boumeester is one of the more confusing players to evaluate. On the one hand, the guy is an absolute freakin' ironman, having played EVERY game since the lockout. And he does it logging serious ice time in a key role for his teams, and most consider him a good, if not imposing, defender.

On the other hand, his offense game basically disappeared after going to Calgary, and you wonder if the Florida numbers weren't just smoke and mirrors. And you can call it bad luck or whatever you want that the guy has played 700+ games without a playoff appearance, but in a salary cap era where make big bucks to anchor a defense, and haven't even been able to sneak in to the 8th seed once, that can't just be an annual coincidence. For what it's worth, he did play 18 AHL playoff games with the Chicago Wolves...and didn't score a point.

I don't like Bouwmeester as that deadline addition where you won the bidding war and are hoping to ride him into the Playoffs. Had we traded for him in the offseason and marked out our plans carefully, for some reason, I like that better. But as it is, taking on that $6.6 mil cap hit for just next season WOULD have severe consequences for us to re-sign the guys worth keeping, and possibly add another piece.

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Interesting how Quincey was worth a first a year ago...and by interesting I mean nauseating!

Last year's draft was not that good. This year's draft is one of the best in years. Thats the difference.

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Detroit has learned from own mistakes?

I will re-iterate what everyone else has said, last year there wasn't a very good prospect pool to choose from, so there was a desperate need to hold on to our 1st round draft pick. This year there is a very deep prospect pool for the draft, that first round pick could potentially garner us a superstar, so Kenny is not trading it away

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