• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
unsaddleddonald

Putting Hank's goal scoring problems into perspective.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

His goal scoring numbers have slowly been dwindling over the years.

In his best years, he took a boatload of shots, but had better aim and was good in front of the net. Now, he just throws pucks from crappy angles like the rest of the team.

The 40 footer to the chest is a red wings staple. Give the goalie confidence and kills all offensive momentum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has it occurred to any of you that maybe these "40 foot shots" that Z takes is due to Babcock telling the team to take as many shots as they can? I mean almost every media interview babcock takes he always says how "we need to be getting the puck to the net", "we need to start taking more shots" etc etc. I wouldn't be quick to jumping conclusions and saying that Z is at fault for taking so many wide angle shots. I mean look at Pavel, he's been shooting more than ever and half his shots are crappy. Imo its the coaching not the players. Let's not forget, Z has one of the best backhanded shots in the game and Pavs got one of the best wrist shots. The problem is, they're double teamed half the time and can't get as many good looks as they used to back in 08 and 09 when we had other top players to help em out and share the load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This.

For every one of Pav's snipes, he misses the net completely another 20 times.

But, again, he isn't a goal scorer so we can't get too upset or surprised about that.

Not a goal scorer, but he put up 27 or more in 6 straight years (3 over 30), then followed that with 23 in 56 games. But he's at a 25g pace this year. His goal production isn't down nearly as severely as Hank's. His assists are down, but that's far more dependent on the guys around him. (Part of the decline for both is certainly from not playing together as often.) He's also older, and has been playing fewer games the past few years. Hank deserves appreciation for getting his assists up in spite of having less to work with, but he's actually averaging more games the last four years than he did the four years prior to that. Perhaps he's playing games now that he would have sat out in the past. We certainly need him more now.

This year, Pav is on pace for 25.4g in 82 games. The last four years he's averaged 27.1 per 82. The four years prior it was 30.5. Hank is on pace for 18 this year. The last four years: 23.1. The four years prior: 41.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

For one, comparing the beer leagues and the NHL is totally irrelevent. What is the TOI for Hank and Pav? Neither of them are even in the Top 25 of the league. They're hardly workhorses. Kobe had games where he didn't leave the floor the entire game AND he lead his team to victory and into the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For one, comparing the beer leagues and the NHL is totally irrelevent. What is the TOI for Hank and Pav? Neither of them are even in the Top 25 of the league. They're hardly workhorses. Kobe had games where he didn't leave the floor the entire game AND he lead his team to victory and into the playoffs.

Doesn't matter, Hank and Pav still work harder than the rest of the teammates on THEIR team. The perspective is within team boundaries. The wings have no other good talent and the pressure is on Hank and Pav and they are outright slumping in their play due to lack of effort from other players. It's common sense for anyone whose played the game. You can't be expected to play at 100% and carry your team day in and day out in a shortened season while the rest of the teammates suck.

And for the record, Z and Pav one of the few 30+ year old players in the league with high points. Datsyuk being the oldest at 34. Most of the rest of the players leading in points are in their mid 20s.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

Perhaps its the other way around? Other players aren't doing well because the stars aren't producing? Like I said, it starts at the top and the effort and production is a trickle down effect. You don't count on your 4th line guys to inspire your star players. You can pick out various stats, but these guys aren't getting the job done. Z is supposed to be a defensive player and he's a minus 4? Brunner hasn't scored in forever and has sat out several games and he still has more goals than Z. Not expecting either guy to be Ovechkin or Stamkos, but their production has not been good enough. I can't begin to count how many times both guys have made a blind pass and had it picked off.



Hank-Dats-Ryan. All year next year. End of story.

Your love affair with Ryan is kind of creepy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Perhaps its the other way around? Other players aren't doing well because the stars aren't producing? Like I said, it starts at the top and the effort and production is a trickle down effect. You don't count on your 4th line guys to inspire your star players. You can pick out various stats, but these guys aren't getting the job done. Z is supposed to be a defensive player and he's a minus 4? Brunner hasn't scored in forever and has sat out several games and he still has more goals than Z. Not expecting either guy to be Ovechkin or Stamkos, but their production has not been good enough. I can't begin to count how many times both guys have made a blind pass and had it picked off.

Your love affair with Ryan is kind of creepy.

I am getting a little over the top with that, eh. OK. I just think he's all that's left out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps its the other way around? Other players aren't doing well because the stars aren't producing? Like I said, it starts at the top and the effort and production is a trickle down effect. You don't count on your 4th line guys to inspire your star players. You can pick out various stats, but these guys aren't getting the job done. Z is supposed to be a defensive player and he's a minus 4? Brunner hasn't scored in forever and has sat out several games and he still has more goals than Z. Not expecting either guy to be Ovechkin or Stamkos, but their production has not been good enough. I can't begin to count how many times both guys have made a blind pass and had it picked off.

Nope. It's not the other way around. Just look at the stats. Both Pav and Z are leading in points for their team with 41 and 38 points respectively. Datsyuk is leading in goals with 13. So where does you're logic come in? They're both leading the team. Where's everyone elses production? It's not even close. The next highest point producer after Z and Pav is Kronwall and Franzen at 26. A defenseman and a guy whose missed 7 games? That's terrible. The only other person whose broken 20 is Brunner. Where the hell is Abdelkader? He played on the first line almost every night. Where's his production? If datsyuk has 41 points shouldn't abdelkaders point production somewhat corellate to his? It's not even close.. And what about Cleary? Cleary's played on both first and second lines this season and has played all 43 games and hes sitting at 14 points? and -8? Trust me its not the other way around. Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg are leading their teams in points and the stats show it. The other guys have played just as many games if not more and have nothing to show for. It's simple logic. And on top of that both Z and Pav have been battling injury and fatigue and STILL lead the team in points. None of these other guys have any injury, NOR missed many games, theyre younger and faster and STILL aren't anywhere close in terms of points. Oh and i'm not speaking of 4th line youngsters I'm speaking of young players who have played on the first and second lines. And as I said before Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the few 30+ year old men leading the league in points. 95% of the NHL players who are top 15 in points are in the ages of 23-28. In fact, Zetterberg is the only player in the league besides Thornton whose 30+ and is ranked number 6 in assists, abliet Thornton has played 3 more games than Zet has.

You can't expect them to produce like Overtckin with a team that gives them no support offensively. The fact that Zetterberg is tied for rank 6 in assists is impressive especially if this is considered an "off year" for him.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Nope. It's not the other way around. Just look at the stats. Both Pav and Z are leading in points for their team with 41 and 38 points respectively. Datsyuk is leading in goals with 13. So where does you're logic come in? They're both leading the team. Where's everyone elses production? It's not even close. The next highest point producer after Z and Pav is Kronwall and Franzen at 26. A defenseman and a guy whose missed 7 games? That's terrible. The only other person whose broken 20 is Brunner. Where the hell is Abdelkader? He played on the first line almost every night. Where's his production? If datsyuk has 41 points shouldn't abdelkaders point production somewhat corellate to his? It's not even close.. And what about Cleary? Cleary's played on both first and second lines this season and has played all 43 games and hes sitting at 14 points? and -8? Trust me its not the other way around. Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg are leading their teams in points and the stats show it. The other guys have played just as many games if not more and have nothing to show for. It's simple logic. And on top of their both Z and Pav have been battling injury and fatigue and STILL lead the team in points. None of these other guys have any injury, NOR missed many games, theyre younger and faster and STILL aren't anywhere close in terms of points. Oh and i'm not speaking of 4th line youngsters I'm speaking of young players who have played on the first and second lines. And as I said before Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the few 30+ year old men leading the league in points. 95% of the NHL players who are top 15 in points are in the ages of 23-28. In fact, Zetterberg is the only player in the league besides Thornton whose 30+ and is ranked number 6 in assists, abliet Thornton has played 3 more games than Zet has.

Days and Z are the best guys. Who could be against these 2? Even the fans of other teams like Hank and Pavs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Days and Z are the best guys. Who could be against these 2? Even the fans of other teams like Hank and Pavs.

Well yes I agree, but these seems to be some sort of idea that because Datsyuk and Zetterberg are having an "off year" the rest of the players production is suffering because of them. But obviously that's not the case since both men are leading their teams in points and no one else is even close to having as many points as they have.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Well yes I agree, but these seems to be some sort of idea that because Datsyuk and Zetterberg are having an "off year" the rest of the players production is suffering because of them. But obviously that's not the case since both men are leading their teams in points and no one else is even close to having as many points as they have.

Exactly. There are no facts to support these 2 players having anything to do with our crappy record. Holland not landing Praise, Suter, and Semin is what killed us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest mjtm77   
Guest mjtm77

Zettererg is aging pretty bad. He will never be the same player and IMO only has two more soild years left or so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

Exactly. There are no facts to support these 2 players having anything to do with our crappy record. Holland not landing Praise, Suter, and Semin is what killed us.

Sorry but Suter, parise, z and franzen all signed long term would DESTROY us down the road. But yes the first xouokebyears would've been AWESOME!

Edited by DeGraa55

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

Zetterberg was fantastic early in the season. Six of his goals and 19 of his assists were from January and February. He's had double digit stretches of games where he hasn't scored. He's the captain of the team and should be a difference maker out there most games. The last half of the season, he has not produced, which has coincided with the Wings plummeting in the standings. Leading a low scoring Wings team is not much of an accomplishment. Neither he or Datsyuk is in the top 20 in league scoring. All 9 of his goals (3 in 1 game) came in Wings victories. So when he scores, the Wings win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Zetterberg was fantastic early in the season. Six of his goals and 19 of his assists were from January and February. He's had double digit stretches of games where he hasn't scored. He's the captain of the team and should be a difference maker out there most games. The last half of the season, he has not produced, which has coincided with the Wings plummeting in the standings. Leading a low scoring Wings team is not much of an accomplishment. Neither he or Datsyuk is in the top 20 in league scoring. All 9 of his goals (3 in 1 game) came in Wings victories. So when he scores, the Wings win.

If it were up to me, I'd rearrange the whole forward corps.

Z-Dats-Flip

Nyquist-Andersson-Tatar

Sheahan-Emmerton-Ericsson

Franzen-Abdelkader-Kronwall

Dekeyser-Kindl

Quincey-Lashoff

Smith-Colo

Howard

Gustavsson

Cleary can pound sand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is, we're already paying a lot for Pav and Hank. If we have to go out and get an expensive sniper for each of them in order to score goals, we'll have to hope for bargains from the rest of the roster. And how long before their playmaking starts to fade as well?

That's why I think it would be a waste of resources to try building around them again. We're not in an advantagous position for it, and our window is very narrow if it even exists at all.

Good point, Bupster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. There are no facts to support these 2 players having anything to do with our crappy record. Holland not landing Praise, Suter, and Semin is what killed us.

Still blaming Holland for Suter's wife and Parise being from Minnesota?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Still blaming Holland for Suter's wife and Parise being from Minnesota?

Do you realize that 95% of our players have wives/families that live in ANOTHER F%&KING COUNTRY?!!!! If Holland sucks so bad that he can only lure Michigan natives, then we are in trouble. Your argument is weak. Money talks, and BS walks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you realize that 95% of our players have wives/families that live in ANOTHER F%&KING COUNTRY?!!!! If Holland sucks so bad that he can only lure Michigan natives, then we are in trouble. Your argument is weak. Money talks, and BS walks.

You're ignoring every bit of truth. This was the story BEFORE they had signed with Minnesota. This post goes into detail WHY they had thought Minnesota was going to get Parise and Suter, and sure enough, it was.

That's interesting that you mention Suter's wife, Becky. She a business school grad from U of Wisconsin. Ryan Suter met her there during his one and only year playing for the badgers.

Ultimately, it may be Suter's wife responsible for Weber's eventual exit from NSH.

Weber seemed content to sign a multi-year deal with NSH back in 2010. But as contract talks gradually wore on, I suspect his buddy Suter at some point told him, "Hey Shea, I don't know if you really want to sign a long term deal, brah. I think there's a good chance I might be signing elsewhere my deal is up."

I think Suter wants out because he wants to do something nice for his wife, who still lists herself as working for her dad's real estate firm, which is in Minneapolis. It just so happens, Zach Parise is also from Minneapolis and he and Ryan Suter are known to be friends. I think those two have a plan that involves the Wild.

Parise bought a lake front mansion in suburban Minneapolis last summer and will be married, (likely) at the golf course across from his house, to his North Dakota fiancee on July 21. Suter and his wife were married at that same country club a few years ago.

So as Parise and Suter's plans started to form, likely over the Olympics, perhaps solidifying last season, Weber's tune started changing last spring about signing longterm in NSH. As you know, he ended up letting the negotiation go to (team elected) arbitration, ultimately picking the one year award instead of the two.

I recall hearing on Team 1040 last season, one of the local reporters saying that Weber told him about Vancouver during the Olympics, "this wouldn't be a bad place to play, eh" (or something to that effect). He's also on record as saying Vancouver is his favorite road city because "it's close to home." And as you stated, it's close to home for his fiancee, Bailey.

So there you go, the moral of the story could very well end up being: if you want to know where a player is going to sign, check with the wives.

Ignoring the part about Weber, the truth of the matter is that Parise and Suter had their minds set. There was no amount of money that was going to change that. They both had lives in Minnesota and it made the most sense for both parties. Holland could've offered them the moon, but unless he went back rewrote history, it wasn't going to change anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this