Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Henrik and Pavel


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#1 RusDRW

RusDRW

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,358 posts
  • Location:Tampere, FI

Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:21 AM

should (will) Red Wings retire their numbers? From my opinion it is definite yes as they defined a milestone for the team we are rooting for. From the other side we have Fedorov who contributed as much as Yzerman (13 seasons of pure magic) but left with some bad feelings... What do you think?


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#2 dat's sick

dat's sick

    Fear can hold you prisoner, hope can set you free

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,352 posts
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:41 AM

Pav signing this extension should have wiped away any doubt, his number will be retired. Hank is well on his way but needs atleast a couple more good years and some more playoff success imo.

#3 wingedominance13

wingedominance13

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 384 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:19 AM

Yes yes and yes. To all three. They all were pivotal to the wings success and dominated their positions.

#4 13dangledangle

13dangledangle

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,851 posts
  • Location:Port Hope, Ont.

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:15 AM

Pav signing this extension should have wiped away any doubt, his number will be retired. Hank is well on his way but needs atleast a couple more good years and some more playoff success imo.

 

  This for sure.  They need to add another cup....


....Ladies and Gentlemen Jimmy "F%$*ing" Howard.

#5 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,622 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:19 AM

Datsyuk yes, Zetterberg is a maybe right now.  I'm torn about Fedorov.  He was supremely talented, but the way he left, and had been trying to leave for quite awhile before he did leave, probably disqualifies him in my mind.  The Wings don't retire your number just because you were great with them, or a Hall of Fame player like some other teams.  You need to be an icon here to have that honor.  There are some teams that will retire your number just because they want the attention of retiring a number (Colorado).  Detroit doesn't and shouldn't do that.

 

Really, they need a ring of honor type thing for the guys like Shanahan, Chelios, Probert, Konstantinov, the Grind Line, Fedorov, etc.  Save the retirements for the players who defined the team like howe, Abel, Yzerman, Lidstrom, and now Datsyuk.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#6 Opie

Opie

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,420 posts
  • Location:The only Henniker on Earth!

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:38 AM

I think Hank and Dats are great players, not on par with Feds skill wise.

I think Hank and Dats are greater Red Wings than Feds, if that makes sense.

 

I think none of them belong in the rafters at the Joe.

 

Look at the last two names put up there, all world players and leaders, and two of the greatest Wings ever.

 

People forget not only was Yzerman the heart and soul of this organization, he has over 1700 points.

 

This is not Colorado or Buffalo, simpy being a great player and leader does not get you in the rafters, you need to be one of the best Wings of all time.

 

Unfortunately for Hank and Dats, they are in that class one step below that!

 

IMO


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#7 Wings_Dynasty

Wings_Dynasty

    The Greatest Ever

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,817 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:01 AM

I think that Datsyuk and Zetterberg have not accomplished enough to have their numbers retired. At this point neither of them are on par even with Fedorov in terms of accomplishments and Fedorov's number will not be retired. Neither will Shanahan, Larionov, or even Osgood. And they have more Cups and personal accomplishments. 

 

I think if the Wings were a less storied franchise and didn't have Howe, Sawchuck, and Lindsay up in the rafters right now they would have a better chance. But this isn't Columbus or Buffalo. Detroit has had giants, and while Datsyuk and Z have been huge for their team, they are not HUGE like those other names. 


Current LGW Whippin' Boy: Shoot-outs & Franzen

 

HTBanner400x100.jpg


#8 turbowhistle86

turbowhistle86

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 299 posts
  • Location:Illinois

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:47 AM

The real question is....what numbers will future Wings have to choose from? I mean, obviously 11, 36, and 51 will be hung up there soon too.

Seriously though, I think Pav has a chance, but I don't see Z getting there. He's just not a dominant player that can regularly take a game over. Nearly every number in the rafters was a guy who could single-handedly create wins.

#9 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,622 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:01 AM

The real question is....what numbers will future Wings have to choose from? I mean, obviously 11, 36, and 51 will be hung up there soon too.
Seriously though, I think Pav has a chance, but I don't see Z getting there. He's just not a dominant player that can regularly take a game over. Nearly every number in the rafters was a guy who could single-handedly create wins.


Like Datsyuk.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#10 Kira

Kira

    "I hope you're not from KGB"

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,559 posts
  • Location:Oh yeah, like you really care where I am.

Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:06 AM

Yes, definitely on Pasha.  Good possibility for Henrik, depending on how much of an impact he has from here on out.  I doubt Fedorov will, simply because some parties have very long memories, and hold grudges forever.


Posted Image

#11 ogreslayer

ogreslayer

    Hall-of-Famer

  • HoF Booster
  • 2,002 posts
  • Location:Indianapolis

Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:23 AM

I think the question is whether or not they get into the Hall of Fame.  Isn't that one of the musts set down by Mr. Ilitch for the Wings to consider retiring a number?  I believe that's one of the reasons given for taking Larry Aurie's number down from the rafters.  



#12 HelmFan

HelmFan

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg

Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:34 AM

I think that Datsyuk and Zetterberg have not accomplished enough to have their numbers retired. At this point neither of them are on par even with Fedorov in terms of accomplishments and Fedorov's number will not be retired. Neither will Shanahan, Larionov, or even Osgood. And they have more Cups and personal accomplishments. 

 

I think if the Wings were a less storied franchise and didn't have Howe, Sawchuck, and Lindsay up in the rafters right now they would have a better chance. But this isn't Columbus or Buffalo. Detroit has had giants, and while Datsyuk and Z have been huge for their team, they are not HUGE like those other names. 

Pretty much this..

 

but we do have Zetterberg under contract for 8 more years.  If he can captain the wings to a few more cups, he could assure himself a spot in the rafters.



#13 darkmanx

darkmanx

    Toronto's Finest

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,835 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:42 AM

If Datsyuk continues on the streak hes on now he will end up with over 1000 points when he retires (PPG player), and maybe a few more Selke's. If they win another cup before he retires I definitely say Datsyuk needs to get retired.



#14 Seraph

Seraph

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:00 AM

13 and 40 are contenders, but not there yet. 91 will not be retired.

 

I got ridiculed for saying this in other threads, but we basically have to win 1 or 2 more cups on the backs of Datsyuk and Zetterberg before their numbers will be elligible to hang in the rafters. All the other names up there are much more decorated and have won at least 3 cups with the Red Wings. Datsyuk has won two, but he was not the backbone of the team with the first one. If they can bring a couple more cups to this organization then you can make an arguement.


Edited by Seraph, 14 July 2013 - 11:05 AM.

Formerly known as The Nephilim.

QUOTE (Amberoonie)
Babs sure hurries himself into the presser, sits down, and f*cks up a bottle of water like no one in the room has had any for days.


#15 skyphoenix

skyphoenix

    JIMMEH

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,734 posts
  • Location:Commerce, MI

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

I don't see either getting their numbers formally retired but maybe both as an unspoken rule. I think Zetterberg would have more of a chance considering he has a Conne Smyth and is the captain and will be captain until he retires.


Posted Image


#16 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 21,064 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:36 PM

No.

 

Red Kelly and Norm Ullman weren't retired, two guys with higher all time NHL rankings.  

 

Seems like the Wings only retire the most elite players in terms of rankings in NHL history.  I don't think Pavel or Hank rise up to that level, unless the franchise wants to make exceptions to its previous standards.    


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#17 Yzermania

Yzermania

    In it to win it like Yzerman.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 950 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

People arguing points is kind of silly. It's a different era. Stevy Y would not have had the same amount of points had he started in 2001-2002 with Datsyuk.

I think Pavs has meant as much to the current era as Stevy did. Yes there is a crossover obviously, but Pavs was just rising when Stevy was finishing up. Hank to me is a little inconsistent. I think Pavs should go up there...not right away, but eventually.

I think Feds should go up too, but I doubt it will ever happen.



#18 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 21,064 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

If Stu Grimson's number isn't retired, I don't know why Datsyuk or Zetterberg should be.  


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#19 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,261 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

No, No and No.  Number retirement is not for good players or even excellent players.  Retiring a number should be reserved for legends only.  I don't think any of the three qualify.



#20 matthewdanna

matthewdanna

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 296 posts
  • Location:San Jose, CA

Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:39 PM

Datsyuk: 11 seasons with Wings

255 goals; 512 assists; 767 points

Stanley Cup 2002, 2008

All-Star 2004, 2008, 2009, 2012

Young Stars Game 2002

Selke 2008, 2009, 2010

Lady Byng 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

Plus-Minus Award 2008

 

- needs to get to 1000 points; needs to win another cup (at least); needs to sign at least one additional one-year deal; needs to be inducted into HOF; with that I say YES

 

Zetterberg: 10 sesaons with Wings

263 goals; 408 assists; 672 points

Conn Smyth 2008

Stanley Cup 2008

All-Star 2007 & 2008

All Rookie Team 2003

NHL Foundation Award 2013 

Captain [2013 to  ]

 

- needs to play out his contract without a dropoff [he's only at 672 pts]; needs to win another cup (at least); needs to be inducted into HOF; even then it would be close

 

Federov: 13 years with Wings

400 goals; 554 assists; 954 points [with Wings only]

Stanley Cup 1997, 1998, 2002

All-Star 1992, 1994, 1996, 2001, 2002, 2003

All Rookie Team 1991

Hart 2004

Pearson 2004

Selke 1994, 1996

 

His 1994 season is one of the best ever by a Red Wing and I think he's a HOF for sure. If you take away the hold-out, his personality, and his departure from the Wings it's a YES. I love him, but in the words of Mike Singletary, "Can't Do it, Won't do it."







Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users