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Dabura

What's Killing Our Offense?

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I think it's where the mishmash of 3rd and 4th line particularly stands out. On a lot of teams that's the fast, crash bang line that keeps the puck deep in the corners and will throw it out front for a good chance. On the Wings it's just inferior versions of the top two lines.

this exactly. drives me nuts how the bottom six try to play like the top 6. they need to be more traditional when it comes to the bottom six. do as much crash and bang as possible. having said that though, helm, nyquist, tatar maybe would be excellent as a third line.

dirtydangles likes this

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I have no idea how you've gotten the impression that the Wings' forwards are possessed of below-average speed. Of them all, only Andersson, Cleary, and Samuelsson are below-average skaters.

For many years the Wings could out skate 99% of all the other NHL teams. That is not true anymore. We just got out skated/out hustled by the Rangers tonight.

In the Kinda Sorta Feel-Good Department, our opponent tonight - the mighty New York Rangers (who most pundits have picked to finish ahead of us) (and they very well may) - have scored twelve goals thus far, five of those belonging to Brad Richards. Additionally, they'll be without their heart-and-soul captain Ryan Callahan, their resident former Wings killer Rick Nash, and the best goalie in the world in Henrik Lundqvist.

Point being, if we lose tonight, we suck. And if we don't score at least three goals, in a winning effort, we suck.

Well......

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The weird thing is the problem has reversed. Used to be top 6 now it's bottom 6. It's...

Cleary-Andersson-Bertuzzi

Eaves-Glendening-Samuelsson

Give or take a helm Tootoo and others

When I'd rather see

Prust-Helm-Neil

Carcillo-Gaustad-Tootoo

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The last 2 games Pavs are Hanked looked kinda unmotivated and Babs looked more worried than pissed.I'm really scared there are some locker room issues that prevent team to stay focused the whole game.

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Maybe we're over-thinking this.

Our roster is relatively thin (compard to what we're used to). Maybe it's as simple as that. We could do all that crazy high-scoring puck-possession stuff before because, well, we could - i.e. we had the requisite skill, talent, moxy. Now we can't because, well, we can't.

Is it a mere coincidence that 1) this is the weakest lineup we've had in maybe twenty years, and 2) we're looking absolutely lost?

GMRwings1983 likes this

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Maybe we're over-thinking this.

Our roster is relatively thin (compard to what we're used to). Maybe it's as simple as that. We could do all that crazy high-scoring puck-possession stuff before because, well, we could - i.e. we had the requisite skill, talent, moxy. Now we can't because, well, we can't.

Is it a mere coincidence that 1) this is the weakest lineup we've had in maybe twenty years, and 2) we're looking absolutely lost?

That part is pretty obvious, especially on the blue line. Hard to play puck possession when you replace Listrom and Rafalski with guys like Quincey and Lashoff.

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Outside of Pavs (when he's shooting) and Hank (when his back isn't hurting him), there isn't a true consistent scorer on the roster who isn't either "over-ripe" or older than the hills (Alfie, and even that he's a scorer anymore is debatable)....

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Maybe we're over-thinking this.

Our roster is relatively thin (compard to what we're used to). Maybe it's as simple as that. We could do all that crazy high-scoring puck-possession stuff before because, well, we could - i.e. we had the requisite skill, talent, moxy. Now we can't because, well, we can't.

Is it a mere coincidence that 1) this is the weakest lineup we've had in maybe twenty years, and 2) we're looking absolutely lost?

That part is pretty obvious, especially on the blue line. Hard to play puck possession when you replace Listrom and Rafalski with guys like Quincey and Lashoff.

Well Kenny should have done a better job, preparing this team for the post perfect human. Going after Surer was great but how about a plan B or C? Also why not use the DetroitRedWings wealth to offersheet a guy, whom Babcock compared to the perfect human in terms of hockey IQ? Yes, getting top guys isn't easy but the mastermind needs to become one again if this team wants to return to being the class of the NHL and getting the damn players they want!

Looking at the upcoming Ufa class there are two guys which could help the DetroitRedWings out tremendously both are captains of their teams of course Vanek =goalscorer and Phaneuf PP quarterback but it will take a very serious offer and a frontoffice commited to improvement. Also Babcock needs to find a system this team = worst in 20 years = is capable to play.

Edited by frankgrimes

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And Vanek goes to the Islanders. He definitely would have helped

He would,but Moulson,1st and a 2nd round pick...holly sh*t :scared:

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Now we all have come up with hundreds of reasons of why we are were we are, that is the easy part. The hard part is what to do about it? We can't just sit by and "wait for the young guys'. Hell we are not using the 2 that are ready now. tatar and nyquist should be playing every damn game. if that means we cut a Sammy then do it! Sheahan and Jurco should be ready by the end of the year as well. but none of those 4 guys is going to make a major impact on our O. can they help? yes. But none of them are 60+ point 30+ goal guys. they don't do it in the minors, so they sure as heck are going to do it at a higher level.

The only forward in our entire system that looks like future star on O is Mantha, but it will take him 3-4 years to be at that level.

This means we have to go out and make trades and sign UFA's. There is no other way to do it right now. maybe 3 years from now we will have more talent/potential stars in our system. But we can't wait 3 years. if we do we will become a sub .500 team and miss the PO's several times in a row.

Now trades require payment. You don't go out and pick up 30+ goal scorers for free. we can't pass on guys like Ryan when the chance is there. Be 100% honest, which would be better for us right now? tatar, nyquist, and the 2014 1st or Ryan? How about tatar, nyquist and a 2nd or Vanek? Point is we can come up with lots of names, and we need to make moves.

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It would be a bad move to trade both Nyquist and Tatar. Especially for Ryan. A good regular season does not equal a good playoff run.

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Well, just when I thought Babs' lineup couldn't get dumber..

Update #2: Per Khan...

Some new lines today: Datsyuk is with Tatar and Cleary, Zetterberg is with Alfredsson and Abdelkader.

...

Andersson is with Bertuzzi and Eaves; Weiss skating with Tootoo and Samuelsson, who might be subbing for Miller. Helm working in on top 6.

...

Defense pairs remain the same: Kronwall-Smith, Quincey-DeKeyser, Lashoff-Kindl

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Well, just when I thought Babs' lineup couldn't get dumber..

Update #2: Per Khan...

Some new lines today: Datsyuk is with Tatar and Cleary, Zetterberg is with Alfredsson and Abdelkader.

...

Andersson is with Bertuzzi and Eaves; Weiss skating with Tootoo and Samuelsson, who might be subbing for Miller. Helm working in on top 6.

...

Defense pairs remain the same: Kronwall-Smith, Quincey-DeKeyser, Lashoff-Kindl

Head scratching moves right there.

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It would be a bad move to trade both Nyquist and Tatar. Especially for Ryan. A good regular season does not equal a good playoff run.

You have to make the PO to have a bad or good PO run. Our O is going to cause us to miss the PO soon. BTW just for reference, Ryan has 10 goals in 26 PO games which is 38%. Z is at 45% and datsyuk is at 27%, so yes he is a PO performer for his career. Vanek is at 42%. Both would make us better overnight and we had the chance to get both.

Get the impression he's grasping at straws?

Yes. babs can mix and match until he is blue in the face. but the O will not get better until we have better players. Holland that is on you.

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You have to make the PO to have a bad or good PO run. Our O is going to cause us to miss the PO soon. BTW just for reference, Ryan has 10 goals in 26 PO games which is 38%. Z is at 45% and datsyuk is at 27%, so yes he is a PO performer for his career. Vanek is at 42%. Both would make us better overnight and we had the chance to get both.

Yes. babs can mix and match until he is blue in the face. but the O will not get better until we have better players. Holland that is on you.

Sure, I agree that changes have to be made to the overall roster. But that doesn't mean that in the mean time Babcock should just throw lines together all willy nilly. Given that Franzen is hurt, and given that Miller left practice today, why not this...

Alfie-Dats-Bert

Zetterberg-Weiss-Tatar

Eaves/Cleary-Andersson-Abby

Tootoo-Glendening-Eaves/Cleary.

Not the best lines in the world, but certainly better than the trash I just linked above.

Edited by kipwinger

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Sure, I agree that changes have to be made to the overall roster. But that doesn't mean that in the mean time Babcock should just throw lines together all willy nilly. Given that Franzen is hurt, and given that Miller left practice today, why not this...

Alfie-Dats-Bert

Zetterberg-Weiss-Tatar

Eaves/Cleary-Andersson-Abby

Tootoo-Glendening-Eaves/Cleary.

Not the best lines in the world, but certainly better than the trash I just linked above.

When it comes t lines I tend to give coaches the benefit of the doubt. They are there everyday and know much better than we do what guys work well together and what not.

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When it comes t lines I tend to give coaches the benefit of the doubt. They are there everyday and know much better than we do what guys work well together and what not.

Yep, Babs is there everyday...and that has led him to believe that it's best to have Dan Cleary on our top line. Ugh.

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Who knows. Helm could come back and end up being a real 2nd line center than this disaster could be a blessing

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Franzen-Helm-Tatar

Abdelkader-Weisse-Nyquist

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

esteef likes this

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Babs... c'mon man. Weiss between Tootoo and Miller/Samuelsson, and Cleary on the top line? Yikes.

It's just practice there is no way this combination will start next game :)

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