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What's Killing Our Offense?


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#1 Dabura

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

We're currently averaging 2.3 goals per game. That's good for 23rd in the league. And that's not good.

 

But this is nothing new. So what's the deal? Is it all on our defense not being what it once was? (No Lidstrom and Rafalski means uglier movement and first passes, etc.) Is it our forecheck, or lack thereof? (We seem to be playing that one-and-done perimeter game again.) Do we just simply need a pure goal-scorer, e.g. Vanek? Or maybe a power-forward? A puck-moving defenseman with a great first pass? Is Babs just messing with the lines too much?

 

It's probably a number of things, not just one single issue. What do you think? And, since we're all Ken Holland, how do you fix the problem(s)?


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#2 Crymson

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:52 PM

Bad line combinations, underperforming players, useless black-hole plugs like Dan Cleary.



#3 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

Dan Cleary, Drew Miller, Abs in the top 6 cause he's doing nothing offensively, Weiss hasn't done jack yet and Sammy's contract along with yet again the Cleary signing keepin Nyquist in the minors.

So basically our offensive woes are Kenny Holland's fault.

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#4 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

Franzen 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP and both against the Avs)

Weiss   2 goals in 11 games

Alfredsson 1 goal in 11 games

 

Those are the top 3 guys the Wings need producing after Z and Dats, and they have 5 goals between them.

 

Then throw in our $3 million fourth liner Samuelsson and it's more capspace that was supposed to be providing goals but isn't.  As I mentioned in the GDT, Franzen hasn't even managed a shot on goal in the last two games. His last SOG was against the Coyotes.



#5 Crymson

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

Dan Cleary, Drew Miller, Abs in the top 6 cause he's doing nothing offensively, Weiss hasn't done jack yet and Sammy's contract along with yet again the Cleary signing keepin Nyquist in the minors.

So basically our offensive woes are Kenny Holland's fault.

 

Miller is good with proper linemates and in the proper context, as is Abdelkader. Their thus-far poor performance is not Holland's fault, nor is that of Stephen Weiss. Cleary is atrocious, though I don't think anyone could have anticipated him being this bad. Samuelsson's contract is not a problem right now, but his presence on the roster is.

 

That said, this team has the tools it needs to win.


Edited by Crymson, 24 October 2013 - 04:31 PM.


#6 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:46 PM

Not sure what to do about this season but I hope every free agent forward we have is not brought back and hopefully Franzen is gone



#7 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:49 PM

I expected a little more offense from Smith and Kindl, who both have combined for 2 points in 18 games. Or I should say Kindl has both points, Smith has zero. Smith has looked better recently with his scoring chances though, I'll admit.



#8 kipwinger

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:08 PM

There are a few reasons why our offense is struggling right now.  First, in years past we've always been a league leader (or nearly league leader) in defensive scoring.  With Lids, Kronwall, Rafalski, and before that Schneider we always had d-men who put up good point totals.  We don't anymore and our GAA suffers because of it.  Secondly, Babs needs to stop being experimental with our lines.  We already know who our centers are going to be down the stretch, and we already know who three of the top wingers are going to be.  Let them play where they're supposed to and start forming chemistry.  This mix and mash s*** has got to stop.  Finally, we need to sort out what we expect out of guys and where they fit on the team, if anywhere.  At some point we've got to get past the point of "competing for a spot" and get guys in the positions they've earned so that they can form some chemistry.  Having more than enough players competing for jobs is good in training camp, it's bad when you're a month into the season.  At this point I'd like to see something like this...

 

Alfie-Dats-Bert

Zetterberg-Weiss-Franzen

Tatar-Andersson-Abby

Cleary/Miller-Glendening-Tootoo

 

I don't want Dats and Z separated permanently.  But I also don't want Alfie and Weiss together until they are both VERY comfortable with the system, I don't want two guys learning the system on the same line at the same time.  I feel that Dats would work well with Alfie in order to get him going, and Zetterberg would work with Weiss for the same reason.  Also, when Helm and Eaves get healthy this would all be reevaluated but until then, I like this the best.


Edited by kipwinger, 24 October 2013 - 05:09 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#9 T.Low

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:46 PM

I agree with Kipwing.

We we don't have the talent to play the puck possession style that we've been playing the last many years.

Our D could hardly connect any passes to our wings last game it was really ugly.

#10 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:54 PM

I agree with Kipwing.

We we don't have the talent to play the puck possession style that we've been playing the last many years.

Our D could hardly connect any passes to our wings last game it was really ugly.

 

I feel like the Wings have been stuck in this weird place for the last few seasons.  Not enough talent to play puck possession, not enough speed and size to play dump and chase.  

 

They've been stuck in between.  I'm not sure what their system or identity is.



#11 GoWings1905

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest more Nyquist wouldn't hurt.
 
 
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#12 frankgrimes

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:06 PM


I agree with Kipwing.
We we don't have the talent to play the puck possession style that we've been playing the last many years.
Our D could hardly connect any passes to our wings last game it was really ugly.



I feel like the Wings have been stuck in this weird place for the last few seasons. Not enough talent to play puck possession, not enough speed and size to play dump and chase.

They've been stuck in between. I'm not sure what their system or identity is.


Same here but one thing is more than obious this team is not talented nor deep enough to play a puck possession style.

Till the DetroitRedWings are adding size, grit and toughness in order to play dump and chase I think a tight defense first system might be the way to go. Alfie, Mule and Weiss are no shows so far so why make the best of it and have a more complete defensive style of game?

Edited by frankgrimes, 24 October 2013 - 07:32 PM.

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#13 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:26 PM

I don't think Alfie is playing poorly as much as the puck just isn't going in.

 

Weiss is struggling.

 

Franzen is being himself.

 

There still isn't a pure goal scorer on this team. Thomas Vanek anyone? I can dream can't I?


I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest more Nyquist wouldn't hurt.

Ken Holland says "Sorry, but I signed too many guys that I can't get rid of."



#14 MotorCityMadness

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:43 PM

Several things:

1) Our passing ability has really gone down the tube since 2009
2) The inability to quickly turn a neutral zone turnover into an odd man rush the other way
3) Way to many shots from the perimeter
4) When in a good shooting position, the tendency is to make an extra pass or having to make an extra stick handle instead of releasing a good, hard and quick shot
5) Way to many players who do not put their shoulder down and go hard nose to the net and at worse can draw a penalty against a player who has been beaten
6) Way to much line juggling and several players who seemingly make it a 5 on 4 on the ice when they are out there
7) The lack of someone who is selfish and will shoot every chance they get (you could argue a pure goal scorer here)
8) The power play has become very stagnant and not enough moving parts...need to simplify it and just have someone bombing away from the middle on the back end
9) Way to many times do we give the puck away to easily in the D zone causing more energy to be spent trying to retrieve the puck
10) Lack of a killer instinct when the opponent has had most of its life taken out of them...one example was the game against Chicago last season when they had the lead and then took a boneheaded penalty with 2 mins to go and lost in a shootout 2-1

Rant over
HEY HEY HOCKEYTOWN!

#15 RedWang

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:19 PM

Several things:

1) Our passing ability has really gone down the tube since 2009
2) The inability to quickly turn a neutral zone turnover into an odd man rush the other way
3) Way to many shots from the perimeter
4) When in a good shooting position, the tendency is to make an extra pass or having to make an extra stick handle instead of releasing a good, hard and quick shot
5) Way to many players who do not put their shoulder down and go hard nose to the net and at worse can draw a penalty against a player who has been beaten
6) Way to much line juggling and several players who seemingly make it a 5 on 4 on the ice when they are out there
7) The lack of someone who is selfish and will shoot every chance they get (you could argue a pure goal scorer here)
8) The power play has become very stagnant and not enough moving parts...need to simplify it and just have someone bombing away from the middle on the back end
9) Way to many times do we give the puck away to easily in the D zone causing more energy to be spent trying to retrieve the puck
10) Lack of a killer instinct when the opponent has had most of its life taken out of them...one example was the game against Chicago last season when they had the lead and then took a boneheaded penalty with 2 mins to go and lost in a shootout 2-1

Rant over

This^^^ all of this.

#16 Richdg

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:01 PM

This has been a long time coming and isn't going to change for a couple of more years. We have been bleeding high end talent for years. We haven't drafted well at the forward spot. The last high end talent we developed was Z and datsyuk. You don't lose high end talent like Shanny, Yzerman, Hull, Federov, Hosa, etc.... and replace them with journeyman type players and maintain high end results.

Now what can be done with what we have? Not much. We keep running out the same guys year after year after year and expect different results. Not everyone can play at a high level until they are 40. Those that haven't been at a high level are not going to find it late in their careers.

The team is also mismatched in talent. The young D men are all bigger types who skate well and are good at shooting the puck into the O zone. But most of the talent up front is still better at possessing the puck.

Yes this is frustrating, but it will take time before things get better.



#17 darkmanx

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

This has been a long time coming and isn't going to change for a couple of more years. We have been bleeding high end talent for years. We haven't drafted well at the forward spot. The last high end talent we developed was Z and datsyuk. You don't lose high end talent like Shanny, Yzerman, Hull, Federov, Hosa, etc.... and replace them with journeyman type players and maintain high end results.

Now what can be done with what we have? Not much. We keep running out the same guys year after year after year and expect different results. Not everyone can play at a high level until they are 40. Those that haven't been at a high level are not going to find it late in their careers.

The team is also mismatched in talent. The young D men are all bigger types who skate well and are good at shooting the puck into the O zone. But most of the talent up front is still better at possessing the puck.

Yes this is frustrating, but it will take time before things get better.

 

Maybe we aren't giving some of our higher end talent any chances to prove themselves. Instead we have Cleary and Samuelson showing why exactly they shouldn't have been signed.



#18 Dabura

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

We've drafted really well at forward, IMHO. Names:

 

Athanasiou

Ferraro

Frk

Glendening

Jarnkrok

Jurco

Mantha

Nastasiuk

Nyquist

Pulkkinen

Sheahan

Tatar

 

That's an extraordinarily good group, considering we haven't picked in the top twenty since, what, Marty Lapointe? And our D group is nothing to sneeze at.

 

All of which is to say: I believe drafting is one thing we've been getting very right.

 

True, there's been a bit of a dry spell lately, but in the coming years that will change. My only worry is, of course, the clock that's ticking on Z and D's careers. I want as many of our young guys to learn as much as they can from those two.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#19 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:50 PM

Too many old, slow players.  Inserting young blood into the lineup last year resulted in this team playing faster and better.  How many other teams have so many older forwards playing on the roster every night?      

 

However, even with young blood, last year we finished at .500 in the playoffs.  This team doesn't really have that much talent.  You can see evidence of that in a hammer-hands scrub like Abdelkader playing on the top line.  How many other good teams have a player of his caliber playing as a top winger?   

 

I think guys like Tatar and Nyquist will make us better, but ultimately, the problem is deeper than just two players.  More driven talent is needed in the lineup.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 24 October 2013 - 08:52 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#20 Richdg

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:53 PM

We've drafted really well at forward, IMHO. Names:

 

Athanasiou

Ferraro

Frk

Glendening

Jarnkrok

Jurco

Mantha

Nastasiuk

Nyquist

Pulkkinen

Sheahan

Tatar

 

That's an extraordinarily good group, considering we haven't picked in the top twenty since, what, Marty Lapointe? And our D group is nothing to sneeze at.

 

All of which is to say: I believe drafting is one thing we've been getting very right.

 

True, there's been a bit of a dry spell lately, but in the coming years that will change. My only worry is, of course, the clock that's ticking on Z and D's careers. I want as many of our young guys to learn as much as they can from those two.

None of those guys are here yet, thus why we are in the spot we are. The chances that all of them turn out is very small. maybe 1 or 2 will turn out into a star, but that is about it. Most will never be anything more than role players and career AHL types.







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