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I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season

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I like the idea's the OP has, but a couple of things forgotten...Holland still has one compliance buyout available to him and also Landon Ferraro is out of options, along with having to be re-signed. This organization has put a lot of time into him to not offer him a contract and every chance to earn a spot. The buyout will be used, hopefully on Franzen (who makes the most sense to use it on.) So, add Ferraro to the roster and that still leaves an open spot for a UFA...

Bertuzzi, Sammy, Cleary, Quincey, Monster and Alfie, goodbye, its over or just didn't work out the way we thought...

Re-sign Danny Diesel, Tatar, Sheahan and Ferraro from the RFA list and ONLY Ericsson on the UFA list (even though I think $4M is too much, but if its what the market dictates, then so be it.)

Say good riddance to Franzen (FINALLY) via the buyout.

Zetterberg (6.08M) - Datsyuk (7.5M) - UFA ($11.7M Available Cap Space)

Mantha ($925) - Weiss (4.9M) - Tatar (1.5M)

Nyquist ($950) - Helm (2.125M) - Abdelkader (1.8M)

Miller (1.35M) - Andersson ($733) - Tootoo (1.9M)

Sheahan ($950)/Ferraro ($950)

Kronwall (4.75M) - DeKeyser (1.5M)

Ericsson (4.0M) - Kindl (2.4M)

Smith (1.263M) - Lashoff ($725)

Ouellet ($670)

Howard (5.292M)

Mrazek ($595)

Yes, I still like Tootoo on this team, IMO he brings a much needed aspect to this team. Maybe Babcock will utilize him more next season when the dead weight is all gone. This roster leaves $11.7M to spend, with that amount of cash Holland could acquire that #1 winger that is so desperately needed on Datsyuk's line. The UFA's out there that would fit that bill are few and far between (not counting anyone who may become available via buyouts.) The top three are Gaborik, Heatley, Alex Steen and Vanek. All of which can be had and could ALL be looking for a change of scenery or in Gaborik's case, someone like Datsyuk to play with...There area also players like Stastny, Joe Thornton that could be had, but that would require moving a natural center to a wing. I am sure it would be fine, and I would love to see Paul Stastny on this team...

I know there are still "kids" who may be close to stepping in to the NHL, but I think with Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Ferraro, Ouellet and Mantha and the removal of the old farts, this team is plenty young and green enough to not be TOO young and green. I know the likes of Jarnkrok, Sproul, Almquist, Jurco etc...may see some injury call ups and lest we forget about Glendening who is also an RFA that will probably be re-signed since he is comfortably sitting in the 10th spot on the Wings prospects top 20. They have plenty of players to fill the empty spots left by the old farts and Franzine, but I cannot see the Wings getting back to an elite status with at least one elite line of top 25 NHL talent...

Dastyuk needs a winger that can score 40-50 goals...whether he is out there or not, the players on this team today that are being pout on Datsyuk's line are not talented enough to even score 20 goals.

Edited by LeftWinger

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What do yo guys smoke that makes you think adding another 4 rookies to our team on top of all the young players we currently have will make us better or be good for our young players development....

Bertuzzi needs to be and will be resigned, hes a very valuable player to our team.

We won't go after a big name free agent because we have our own talent that needs to be signed in the future. Not many big name players are looking for a one or two year contract. Our future is currently on our roster or in Grand Rapids and it looks to be bright.

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Bertuzzi would be a waste of a roster position...

Also, like I said earlier, the Wings will not be a Cup contender without that #1 guy on Dats wing. They have a team full of 10-15 goal scorers at best. Franzine may have 6 now, but will not finish above 20, if he even gets there. Outside of Dats and Z, you have a team full of bottom 6 players right now.

First you say we are smoking to think that adding 4 kids to the roster will help, then you say our future is on our roster and in Grand Rapids...

On our Roster: Nyquist, Tatar, DeKeyser

Grand Rapids : Ferraro, Sheahan, Ouellet, Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha.

That's our immediate future, minus Cleary, Sammy, Bertuzzi, Alfie, Quincey, Gustavsson and buying out someone (Franzen.) Again, that is our future, but a nice 3-5 year deal on a 27-32 year old 40 goal scorer is not going to hurt and will put us near the top of the contenders list again. Re-signing Bert and just going with kids is not going to get us a Cup before Dats retires. We need that line of pure top 25 talent, then with the addition of our GR kids and kids we have already, things will look bright not only in the future, but in the present! Right now, this is not even a playoff team.

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Whether we like it or not Bertuzzi will be resigned this offseason unless he retires. I personally like it because he plays well on the wing with Datsyuk and a great winger on the other side would work well I believe. Unfortunately I'm inclined to believe no matter how much he regresses Cleary will be resigned as well. It's just the way this team works. Also Mantha will probably be in GR at least to start the year. He may be an injury call up but Jurco will be on this team before Mantha.

Another thing that came to me a while ago was about trading dmen prospects. Calgary is in full blown rebuild mode and wants prospects and/or young players. We have more promising young D prospects than we know what to do with. Almquist, Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, Jensen, Backman. Not all of these guys are going to fit anyways, especially with our young D but I think Wideman would fit nicely. Maybe package Kindl with a d prospect maybe Almquist or Jensen with a pick for Wideman at the draft while we wait for a few of these guys to be ready. That would give us hopefully a D of

Kronwall Dk

E Smith

Wideman Lashoff/Ouellet

This looks way better than what we currently have while not adding a whole lot of money to the cap. It also gives our young D the time for Kenny to let them become overripe.

Also Wideman can be a legitimate quarterback for our second PP while we wait for Sproul. I'd prefer someone better than Wideman, but after having Q anything is an upgrade.

Oh yeah and I know Wideman has a NMC, but I think to come go somewhere that he might have a shot at winning I think he'd waive it.

Edited by nawein

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What do yo guys smoke that makes you think adding another 4 rookies to our team on top of all the young players we currently have will make us better or be good for our young players development....

Bertuzzi needs to be and will be resigned, hes a very valuable player to our team.

We won't go after a big name free agent because we have our own talent that needs to be signed in the future. Not many big name players are looking for a one or two year contract. Our future is currently on our roster or in Grand Rapids and it looks to be bright.

Couldn't have said it better

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-No way Dekeyser signs for under 2.5m.

-Not much love for Callahan? I think he will be an effective 4th liner. People always say we don't have enough grit...

-Ferraro will battle for Miller's spot, Sheahan for Andersson's, and Callahan for Tootoo/Glendening spot. All are eligible for waivers but Glendening.

-Bertuzzi will be back. Alfredsson will resign, obviously Ericsson around 4m, think Gus will be back especially with how he has played, I'd rather have the depth.

-Would love a top 2-4, right handed, all round defenceman.

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.000m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.500m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Tatar ($1.500m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.600m) / Tootoo ($1.900m)
Landon Ferraro ($0.900m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.950m) / Mitchell Callahan ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / . Top 2-4 Dman ($5.000m)
Brendan Smith ($1.263m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) / Danny DeKeyser ($2.500m)
Adam Almquist ($0.750m) / Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.800m)
BUYOUTS
Johan Franzen ($0.000m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,970,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $330,000

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Quick stat: Callahan has more points than Jarnkrok and they've played the same amount of games and are the same age.

Jarnkrok may have more potential and more skill but Callahan is no slouch. He deserves a shot before being waived.

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Ferraro is not eligible for waivers:

http://www.redwingscentral.com/2013/10/29/4188/ferraros-time-is-now-to-push-for-spot/


The 22-year-old center is in his final season exempt from NHL waivers and needs to turn heads...


....much like today, that group of forwards you listed Son-Of-A-Wing is going nowhere...they need to a real winger for Dats.

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Holland will sign more losers long term and the young kids everyone wants to see will sit in GR. The only way we build a decent team going forward at this point is addition

by subtraction. Get rid of Holland and we can start the change, until then I think this team is rudderless.

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You may laugh at me, but today, if Columbus would do it, I would trade Quincey and Kindl for Wisniewski today.

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You may laugh at me, but today, if Columbus would do it, I would trade Quincey and Kindl for Wisniewski today.

Well didn't Wiz state that Detroit doesn't pay fair market value?

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uh....ya, and next season Ferraro has no waiver exemptions....

exactly what I said.

Edited by LeftWinger

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uh....ya, and next season Ferraro has no waiver exemptions....

exactly what I said.

No, you said...

Ferraro is not eligible for waivers:

Which means he is waiver exempt. Being eligible for waiver is the opposite of waiver exemption.

I suggest you reread my original post.

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I'd like to see:

Z-Dats-Mantha

Tatar-Helm-Nyquist

Franzen-Weiss-Jurco

Callahan-Abdelkader-Sheahan

Ferraro

Kronwall-DeKeyser

Ericsson-Smith

Ouellet-Sproul

Kindl/Almqvist (fight for ice time and a spot)

I think Mantha is the exception. He's a giant power forward who can dangle and score. He should be on the top line with Z and Dats and eat the Calder trophy for breakfast, lunch and supper. Keep Helm on the 2nd line cause he's taking it and owning it. Weiss can be a slightly expensive shutdown guy until his scoring touch comes back, which it should with wingers like Franzen and Jurco, who I expect good things from at the NHL level. I want to see that 4th line annoy and destroy. I don't care if they get a goal all year, which I'm sure they would, but regardless I just want them to hit everything. Ouellet and Sproul should be on the team next season with Marchenko next in line from what I hear.

If no free agent that is the likes of Vanek or someone of that caliber wants to sign, that team above could compete for the Cup.

Off topic:

But what is going on in your avatar picture? Is that Kronwall giving Gus a low-five instead of a fist pound? If so, I couldn't approve more.

Edited by hooon

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Why does it seem like everyone is so eager to get rid of Alfie like he is a bad contract or something? The guy has come in and done great. Outside of Datsyuk and Hank he has the next best PPG on the team.

Potential (Mantha, Jarnkrok, Jurco) is exciting and limitless.

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The thing is. There's too many prospects that have to battle for too few positions. Holland will continue to let them all max out in GRs until they can no longer clear waivers. Exactly like he did with Smith, Tatar, and Nyquist (basically).

Hoping to see Mantha, Jurco, Oullett, Sproul, Jarnkrok, or Mrazek before they have played in GRs for basically 3 years each, would be be a pipe-dream I think. Unfortunately.

The Wings will do well next year to find room for Sheahan, Ferraro, Almquist, and (I think) Callahan.

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I've been banging that drum for over a year. People aren't calling Kenny anymore.. shoot, I'm not even sure they're picking up the phone when he calls.

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/72877-has-the-detroit-diamond-lost-its-shine/

i hate to burts the bubble but Detroit is no longer the choice of designation for highly coveted FA's. Every big contract we signed were for guys north of 38

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I like the idea's the OP has, but a couple of things forgotten...Holland still has one compliance buyout available to him and also Landon Ferraro is out of options, along with having to be re-signed. This organization has put a lot of time into him to not offer him a contract and every chance to earn a spot. The buyout will be used, hopefully on Franzen (who makes the most sense to use it on.) So, add Ferraro to the roster and that still leaves an open spot for a UFA...

Bertuzzi, Sammy, Cleary, Quincey, Monster and Alfie, goodbye, its over or just didn't work out the way we thought...

Re-sign Danny Diesel, Tatar, Sheahan and Ferraro from the RFA list and ONLY Ericsson on the UFA list (even though I think $4M is too much, but if its what the market dictates, then so be it.)

Say good riddance to Franzen (FINALLY) via the buyout.

Zetterberg (6.08M) - Datsyuk (7.5M) - UFA ($11.7M Available Cap Space)

Mantha ($925) - Weiss (4.9M) - Tatar (1.5M)

Nyquist ($950) - Helm (2.125M) - Abdelkader (1.8M)

Miller (1.35M) - Andersson ($733) - Tootoo (1.9M)

Sheahan ($950)/Ferraro ($950)

Kronwall (4.75M) - DeKeyser (1.5M)

Ericsson (4.0M) - Kindl (2.4M)

Smith (1.263M) - Lashoff ($725)

Ouellet ($670)

Howard (5.292M)

Mrazek ($595)

Yes, I still like Tootoo on this team, IMO he brings a much needed aspect to this team. Maybe Babcock will utilize him more next season when the dead weight is all gone. This roster leaves $11.7M to spend, with that amount of cash Holland could acquire that #1 winger that is so desperately needed on Datsyuk's line. The UFA's out there that would fit that bill are few and far between (not counting anyone who may become available via buyouts.) The top three are Gaborik, Heatley, Alex Steen and Vanek. All of which can be had and could ALL be looking for a change of scenery or in Gaborik's case, someone like Datsyuk to play with...There area also players like Stastny, Joe Thornton that could be had, but that would require moving a natural center to a wing. I am sure it would be fine, and I would love to see Paul Stastny on this team...

I know there are still "kids" who may be close to stepping in to the NHL, but I think with Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Ferraro, Ouellet and Mantha and the removal of the old farts, this team is plenty young and green enough to not be TOO young and green. I know the likes of Jarnkrok, Sproul, Almquist, Jurco etc...may see some injury call ups and lest we forget about Glendening who is also an RFA that will probably be re-signed since he is comfortably sitting in the 10th spot on the Wings prospects top 20. They have plenty of players to fill the empty spots left by the old farts and Franzine, but I cannot see the Wings getting back to an elite status with at least one elite line of top 25 NHL talent...

Dastyuk needs a winger that can score 40-50 goals...whether he is out there or not, the players on this team today that are being pout on Datsyuk's line are not talented enough to even score 20 goals.

The fatal flaw in your plan: Franzen will be a Wing until he's 49.

Deep down, we all know he's not going anywhere. Ever.

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Potential (Mantha, Jarnkrok, Jurco) is exciting and limitless.

Yes but potential means nothing until you've proven you can do it at the NHL level. None of those players are ready enough to come in and produce what would be lost with Alfie. Look at Tatar. All the potential in the world. He was supposed to come in and challenge for the Calder trophy. Yet this season he has really struggled to come in and score. I get that everyone is excited about some of the prospects but they are still just prospects not proven players. They need to come in and not be expected to carry the team right away. Alfie isnt holding them back. Its players like Sammy and Cleary that are true roster blocks. If Alfie can play as well at 41 as he is at 40 he is an asset to bring back and nowhere near a bad contract as some are mentioning in this thread. Thinking that Mantha is going to come in and instantly get 2nd line minutes with Babcock and Ken Holland is just lunacy.

Edited by GoalieManPat

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Bertuzzi would be a waste of a roster position...

Also, like I said earlier, the Wings will not be a Cup contender without that #1 guy on Dats wing. They have a team full of 10-15 goal scorers at best. Franzine may have 6 now, but will not finish above 20, if he even gets there. Outside of Dats and Z, you have a team full of bottom 6 players right now.

First you say we are smoking to think that adding 4 kids to the roster will help, then you say our future is on our roster and in Grand Rapids...

On our Roster: Nyquist, Tatar, DeKeyser

Grand Rapids : Ferraro, Sheahan, Ouellet, Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha.

That's our immediate future, minus Cleary, Sammy, Bertuzzi, Alfie, Quincey, Gustavsson and buying out someone (Franzen.) Again, that is our future, but a nice 3-5 year deal on a 27-32 year old 40 goal scorer is not going to hurt and will put us near the top of the contenders list again. Re-signing Bert and just going with kids is not going to get us a Cup before Dats retires. We need that line of pure top 25 talent, then with the addition of our GR kids and kids we have already, things will look bright not only in the future, but in the present! Right now, this is not even a playoff team.

Because you can't add 11 kids to your roster in a year and a half time. Are you that incapable of thinking about what I'm saying and understand whats going on with our team? You just think about small details and ignore the rest to build your conclusions and then try to push them to everyone on the Internet like its well thought out information.

You want to look like Edmonton? That's what happens when you add to many young guys in a short period of time and cut out to many veterans. Is Edmonton lacking in talent? No. Hmm that's weird.

Our players in Grand Rapids will be injected to the Wings roster with a combination of the Wings being ready to take on another rookie and the player themselves being ready. We have 4 young defense-men who are slowly getting to where we need them, and we have 3 young forwards who are now regular roster members. We got our young guys in now and we need to let those guys get there game tightened up before we can afford to add more rookies. You can only have so many guys liable to make rookie turnovers and mistakes on a team, unless you want to look like Edmonton and the only 1st place you will be chasing is to finish last. I know Holland kept Nyquist and Tatar out of the line up a little to long, but lets not pretend its a common occurrence. We definitely let guys develop before we push them into the league and that's a good thing. We have never held out big talent to long before and Holland did make a couple errors on contracts for whatever reason. Errors can be made and it's not a big deal now and likely not to happen again. We currently have no other players in Grad Rapids that should be on the Wings roster right now. Next season depending on how our team develops you may see one more rookie get a full time job. The year after that is when we can likely take another 2 or 3 rookies. That's how it works in the big leagues. We have tons of talent in Grand Rapids and when this happens Dats and Z will still be great players and we will have a great team. Mantha looks like hes going to be a top 1 or 2 goal scoring forward. We lock a guy up for 5 years now what happens to Sproul and Mantha? If we sign them who are we going to lose over it. Tatar and Nyquist will demand more money, Dekeyser will need more, etc.

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Yes but potential means nothing until you've proven you can do it at the NHL level. None of those players are ready enough to come in and produce what would be lost with Alfie. Look at Tatar. All the potential in the world. He was supposed to come in and challenge for the Calder trophy. Yet this season he has really struggled to come in and score. I get that everyone is excited about some of the prospects but they are still just prospects not proven players. They need to come in and not be expected to carry the team right away. Alfie isnt holding them back. Its players like Sammy and Cleary that are true roster blocks. If Alfie can play as well at 41 as he is at 40 he is an asset to bring back and nowhere near a bad contract as some are mentioning in this thread. Thinking that Mantha is going to come in and instantly get 2nd line minutes with Babcock and Ken Holland is just lunacy.

Hey man I totally agree. Hence why I didn't have them in the lineup I posted. Was just stating why I believe others always overvalue prospects and undervalue vets.

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