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I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season


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#141 Dabura

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:12 PM

You make a good point that the cap is supposed to skyrocket in the next couple years, so a $2-3M penalty won't be as significant... but still, is it worth possibly missing out on a free agent or trade opportunity, or worse, having to let a player go because of a penalty?

 

I feel like the threat of a possible $2-3 million hit is, for the Red Wings at least, not a very big deal. Just look at our current roster: we have at least two or three "penalties" in Quincey, Cleary, and Samuelsson. That's roughly $10 million that could've been put towards a quality free agent or a great trade opportunity or what have you. Yet, we're still a very good, competitive team.

 

We should stick with Franzen.


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#142 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:18 PM

Where is the logic in getting rid of your perennial goal scoring leader for nothing. How are we going to replace 25-30 goals a year when we are already in the bottom half of goal scoring

 

You replace him with a 40-50 goal scorer.  The ONLY logical thing is to buyout Franzen.  It doesn't matter if he scores 25 goals.  In the end, this is a business and it will be a business decision.  Do you think Holland really wanted to buyout McCarty back in the day? Of course not, but it was a business decision.  The only way he doesn't et bought out is if he gets traded.  Right now, the better he plays the more his trade value rises.  Not many teams would be willing to take him on for 6 more years, but if Ilitch writes a check for Franzen to take with him to his new team, it would ease the pain of the team picking him up.  Franzen at 35+ is just as useless as Cleary is right now.  Remember when Cleary was a valuable asset to this team? Wasn't it just a couple of years ago?  Now we ALL agree Cleary is horrible and is taking up a valuable roster spot where one of our kids could be.  NHL teams are being given a one time out next off season, to wipe a cap hit off the books, not that his cap hit is that big, but he will not be worth $1.9M in a couple of seasons and then everyone will be screaming for him to be traded or retire...

 

Franzen is gone before the 2014-15 season opens up next october...

 

Alfie at 41 is tons better than Franzen is right now.  If the decision is to made to re-sign Alfie, then Franzen will for sure be gone.


Edited by LeftWinger, 07 December 2013 - 07:22 PM.

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#143 Son of a Wing

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:37 PM

I thought the recapture was worse than it is.  It's actually not that bad.

 

His cap-hit through to 2020 based on year retiring.

 

2015- 1.45m

2016- 2m

2017-2.6m

2018- 2.95m

2019- 2.95

 

With Franzen being the X factor he can be for us and the cap expecting to rise as high as 80m in the next few years, he's definitely worth keeping.


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#144 joesuffP

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:51 PM

 
You replace him with a 40-50 goal scorer.  The ONLY logical thing is to buyout Franzen.  It doesn't matter if he scores 25 goals.  In the end, this is a business and it will be a business decision.  Do you think Holland really wanted to buyout McCarty back in the day? Of course not, but it was a business decision.  The only way he doesn't et bought out is if he gets traded.  Right now, the better he plays the more his trade value rises.  Not many teams would be willing to take him on for 6 more years, but if Ilitch writes a check for Franzen to take with him to his new team, it would ease the pain of the team picking him up.  Franzen at 35+ is just as useless as Cleary is right now.  Remember when Cleary was a valuable asset to this team? Wasn't it just a couple of years ago?  Now we ALL agree Cleary is horrible and is taking up a valuable roster spot where one of our kids could be.  NHL teams are being given a one time out next off season, to wipe a cap hit off the books, not that his cap hit is that big, but he will not be worth $1.9M in a couple of seasons and then everyone will be screaming for him to be traded or retire...
 
Franzen is gone before the 2014-15 season opens up next october...
 
Alfie at 41 is tons better than Franzen is right now.  If the decision is to made to re-sign Alfie, then Franzen will for sure be gone.


Holland won't buy out Franzen just to use his last buyout because he's not retarded.

When it's game 7 in the third period Babcock will want Franzen on the ice a lot more than Alfredsson. Cause you know, he's smart. He doesn't hold grudges against players for 3 years because he didn't have an unbelievable playoff run 3 years in a row

#145 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 08:12 PM

Holland won't buy out Franzen just to use his last buyout because he's not retarded.

When it's game 7 in the third period Babcock will want Franzen on the ice a lot more than Alfredsson. Cause you know, he's smart. He doesn't hold grudges against players for 3 years because he didn't have an unbelievable playoff run 3 years in a row

Babs doesn't hold grudges? Ya...ok.

 

Trust me, by Octoboer 2014 Franzen will be a Vancouver Canuck either by trade or buyout and UFA signing.

 

When it's game 7 in the third period, Babcock will have Dats and Z on the ice with Dan Cleary, because he is retarded.

 

Franzen didn't even have a mediocre playoff run the last 3 years, let alone anywhere near unbelievable run....10 points total in 27 games and a -9, that is garbage, HOT garbage


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#146 joesuffP

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 08:26 PM

Babs doesn't hold grudges? Ya...ok.
 
Trust me, by Octoboer 2014 Franzen will be a Vancouver Canuck either by trade or buyout and UFA signing.
 
When it's game 7 in the third period, Babcock will have Dats and Z on the ice with Dan Cleary, because he is retarded.
 
Franzen didn't even have a mediocre playoff run the last 3 years, let alone anywhere near unbelievable run....10 points total in 27 games and a -9, that is garbage, HOT garbage


I meant after 08-09 years this board seems to hold a grudge because he couldn't keep up that pace. No chance he gets bought out, might get traded. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever to give up a guy for nothing. A perennial 30 goal scorer on a team with scoring issues lol. That's the kind of knee jerk reaction that gets a GM canned

#147 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:10 PM

I meant after 08-09 years this board seems to hold a grudge because he couldn't keep up that pace. No chance he gets bought out, might get traded. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever to give up a guy for nothing. A perennial 30 goal scorer on a team with scoring issues lol. That's the kind of knee jerk reaction that gets a GM canned

 

hasn't score 30 in years. Perennial is far fetched. Make perfect sense to give him up, it wouldn't be for nothing it would be for that valuable roster position, because in 4 years he will be the cause of us losing a "kid" to waivers...if not less than 4 years.


and to go back to Babcock not holding grudges, just read the Commodore thread and remember in 2008 when Fedorov was on his way back to Detroit? Well t is rumored that Babcock is the guy who was against it because of his inability to handle Sergei in Anaheim... Babcock is the best at holding Grudges, just ask Chris Osgood.


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#148 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:30 PM

hasn't score 30 in years. Perennial is far fetched. Make perfect sense to give him up, it wouldn't be for nothing it would be for that valuable roster position, because in 4 years he will be the cause of us losing a "kid" to waivers...if not less than 4 years.and to go back to Babcock not holding grudges, just read the Commodore thread and remember in 2008 when Fedorov was on his way back to Detroit? Well t is rumored that Babcock is the guy who was against it because of his inability to handle Sergei in Anaheim... Babcock is the best at holding Grudges, just ask Chris Osgood.

theyll have plenty of roster positions open in the offseason without doing anything with Franzen

#149 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:07 AM

“We have some more down there. (Luke) Glendening could help us for sure, (Xavier) Ouellet and (Ryan) Sproul as well. It’s good to have players knocking on the door.”

 

why is babcock so in love glendening? i know hes a responsible player but he will never be more than a 4th liner, meanwhile we got sheahan ferraro and callahan who are out of waiver options after the season and theres no mention of them

 

we have to bring them up for a few games and test them out , i know emmerton is a veteran but they should seriously send him down now and call one of them up ... emmerton has no future ijn detroit



#150 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:47 AM

“We have some more down there. (Luke) Glendening could help us for sure, (Xavier) Ouellet and (Ryan) Sproul as well. It’s good to have players knocking on the door.”

 

why is babcock so in love glendening? i know hes a responsible player but he will never be more than a 4th liner, meanwhile we got sheahan ferraro and callahan who are out of waiver options after the season and theres no mention of them

 

we have to bring them up for a few games and test them out , i know emmerton is a veteran but they should seriously send him down now and call one of them up ... emmerton has no future ijn detroit

 

Emmerton is the only option. They don't have salary cap space to make any other recalls unless it was in case of emergency or use of LTIR. Holland's fault. I'm sure Babs would like to have a look at a player that has a future here, but he just can't right now.


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#151 Dabura

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:51 AM

I thought the recapture was worse than it is.  It's actually not that bad.

 

His cap-hit through to 2020 based on year retiring.

 

2015- 1.45m

2016- 2m

2017-2.6m

2018- 2.95m

2019- 2.95

 

With Franzen being the X factor he can be for us and the cap expecting to rise as high as 80m in the next few years, he's definitely worth keeping.

 

That's even better than I'd thought. Like you said, definitely worth keeping.

 

I feel like Franzen's streakiness is only a serious issue if he's being counted on to be our undisputed #3 scorer. If we can have an Alfredsson, two young studs in Nyquist and Tatar, an overperforming Helm, the Weiss we thought were getting when we signed him, and - pipe dream alert! - a Vanek or Gaborik, I'm not going to stress too much about Franzen.


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#152 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:36 PM

 

Emmerton is the only option. They don't have salary cap space to make any other recalls unless it was in case of emergency or use of LTIR. Holland's fault. I'm sure Babs would like to have a look at a player that has a future here, but he just can't right now.

i just checked ... emmertons salary is 533k ... callahan is 566k , we cant afford 30gs on our current cap????? id ratcher much have callahan for 2-3 games than emmerton, he's not a star forward but he's an agitator who can also fight and hit and as of recently in the ahl where hes been scoring im sure he'd pop the odd goal in the nhl ... time to see the kids



#153 Nev

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:09 PM

i just checked ... emmertons salary is 533k ... callahan is 566k , we cant afford 30gs on our current cap????? id ratcher much have callahan for 2-3 games than emmerton, he's not a star forward but he's an agitator who can also fight and hit and as of recently in the ahl where hes been scoring im sure he'd pop the odd goal in the nhl ... time to see the kids

 

Nope.  When we called up Emmerton, someone tweeted that the Wings were quite literally $1000 short of being able to call up Callahan.


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#154 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:51 PM

Setting my dislike of Franzen aside, it still makes the most sense to rid ourselves of that contract.  If Holland were to trade him, he'd most definitely have to include a check for a lot of that salary to the team picking him up. I mentioned David Booth before (maybe it was in the Weiss thread) but I mentioned him getting back with Weiss to possibly reunite the chemistry they had in Florida.  Someone said that Booth is doing very well right, and well, neither is Weiss at the moment and putting them back together wouldn't be good at all. An example I am going to use (and this doesn't mean the same will work for Weiss, but it has a chance to work) is Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.  They were gangbusters in Philly, got traded top separate teams and they were both struggling to the point that people were calling them washed up.  LA takes a chance, makes the deal to reunite them, and viola! Look at what they did together in LA! May or may not work, but Weiss needs a bit a familiarity to play with. I still say Franzen will be an all-star if he gets out there with the Sedins, if Sammy can score 35 with them, Franzen can top 40 with them. And just maybe reuniting Booth and Wiess would spark something.  Trade Franzen and some cash (to cover part of his contract) to Vancouver for Booth, its a win-win situation for both teams...

 

I still maintain Holland needs to address the #1 right winger spot.  Not sure who that would be, but there are a couple of high end guys out there that will be UFA.  Most importantly we must say Goodbye to ALL of the pending UFA's on this team, with the only exception being Alfie, if he still wants to play and ONLY if he takes a similar contract.  I am very happy with Gustavsson's play this year, but he is also playing to get a starting job.  He will get a raise when he signs his next contract and for us, that is too much.  Mrazek is ready to be Jimmy's back-up and successor in the future and is a very minimal cap hit.  GR will continue on with Coreau and Paterson as their tandem.  Bertuzzi, Cleary, Sammy, and Quincey must go.  If I could drop Q and Cleary today, I would.

 

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - #1 Right Winger

Alfredsson - Weiss - Booth

Nyquist - Helm - Tatar

Miller - Andersson - Abdelkader

Sheahen/Ferraro

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Smith

Kindl - Lashoff

Ouellet

 

Howard

Mrazek

 

That roster is much improved over the current one...


Edited by LeftWinger, 09 December 2013 - 01:52 PM.

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#155 joshy207

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:13 PM

I've heard Almquist is out of options next year, so he may be up over Ouellet.  Also, Tootoo is still under contract for next year...



#156 rick zombo

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:21 PM

No way Ouellet is on the team next year as a #5-7. They'll want him and Sproul both playing big minutes in GRs.


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#157 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:00 PM

Setting my dislike of Franzen aside, it still makes the most sense to rid ourselves of that contract.  If Holland were to trade him, he'd most definitely have to include a check for a lot of that salary to the team picking him up. I mentioned David Booth before (maybe it was in the Weiss thread) but I mentioned him getting back with Weiss to possibly reunite the chemistry they had in Florida.  Someone said that Booth is doing very well right, and well, neither is Weiss at the moment and putting them back together wouldn't be good at all. An example I am going to use (and this doesn't mean the same will work for Weiss, but it has a chance to work) is Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.  They were gangbusters in Philly, got traded top separate teams and they were both struggling to the point that people were calling them washed up.  LA takes a chance, makes the deal to reunite them, and viola! Look at what they did together in LA! May or may not work, but Weiss needs a bit a familiarity to play with. I still say Franzen will be an all-star if he gets out there with the Sedins, if Sammy can score 35 with them, Franzen can top 40 with them. And just maybe reuniting Booth and Wiess would spark something.  Trade Franzen and some cash (to cover part of his contract) to Vancouver for Booth, its a win-win situation for both teams...

 

I still maintain Holland needs to address the #1 right winger spot.  Not sure who that would be, but there are a couple of high end guys out there that will be UFA.  Most importantly we must say Goodbye to ALL of the pending UFA's on this team, with the only exception being Alfie, if he still wants to play and ONLY if he takes a similar contract.  I am very happy with Gustavsson's play this year, but he is also playing to get a starting job.  He will get a raise when he signs his next contract and for us, that is too much.  Mrazek is ready to be Jimmy's back-up and successor in the future and is a very minimal cap hit.  GR will continue on with Coreau and Paterson as their tandem.  Bertuzzi, Cleary, Sammy, and Quincey must go.  If I could drop Q and Cleary today, I would.

 

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - #1 Right Winger

Alfredsson - Weiss - Booth

Nyquist - Helm - Tatar

Miller - Andersson - Abdelkader

Sheahen/Ferraro

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Smith

Kindl - Lashoff

Ouellet

 

Howard

Mrazek

 

That roster is much improved over the current one...

Other posters have said many times that you can't trade Franzen because if he retires there's a steep cap penalty against us. I don't know much about that, but it's been said enough that I trust it. Besides that, It has also been said many times that Franzen is a good cap hit for his production. Yes, he's inconsistent, but that's why he's not a higher cap hit. But, besides all this, he's really playing well at the moment. Maybe it's one of his streaks, but I've haven't seen him work like this in a while. Why call for him to be off the team now! Maybe you're thinking "trade while his value's high", but I'm an optomist and think maybe Franzen's turned some kind of corner at least for this season.



#158 joesuffP

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:32 PM

Setting my dislike of Franzen aside, it still makes the most sense to rid ourselves of that contract.  If Holland were to trade him, he'd most definitely have to include a check for a lot of that salary to the team picking him up. I mentioned David Booth before (maybe it was in the Weiss thread) but I mentioned him getting back with Weiss to possibly reunite the chemistry they had in Florida.  Someone said that Booth is doing very well right, and well, neither is Weiss at the moment and putting them back together wouldn't be good at all. An example I am going to use (and this doesn't mean the same will work for Weiss, but it has a chance to work) is Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.  They were gangbusters in Philly, got traded top separate teams and they were both struggling to the point that people were calling them washed up.  LA takes a chance, makes the deal to reunite them, and viola! Look at what they did together in LA! May or may not work, but Weiss needs a bit a familiarity to play with. I still say Franzen will be an all-star if he gets out there with the Sedins, if Sammy can score 35 with them, Franzen can top 40 with them. And just maybe reuniting Booth and Wiess would spark something.  Trade Franzen and some cash (to cover part of his contract) to Vancouver for Booth, its a win-win situation for both teams...
 
I still maintain Holland needs to address the #1 right winger spot.  Not sure who that would be, but there are a couple of high end guys out there that will be UFA.  Most importantly we must say Goodbye to ALL of the pending UFA's on this team, with the only exception being Alfie, if he still wants to play and ONLY if he takes a similar contract.  I am very happy with Gustavsson's play this year, but he is also playing to get a starting job.  He will get a raise when he signs his next contract and for us, that is too much.  Mrazek is ready to be Jimmy's back-up and successor in the future and is a very minimal cap hit.  GR will continue on with Coreau and Paterson as their tandem.  Bertuzzi, Cleary, Sammy, and Quincey must go.  If I could drop Q and Cleary today, I would.

 
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - #1 Right Winger
Alfredsson - Weiss - Booth
Nyquist - Helm - Tatar
Miller - Andersson - Abdelkader
Sheahen/Ferraro
 
Kronwall - Ericsson
DeKeyser - Smith
Kindl - Lashoff
Ouellet
 
Howard
Mrazek
 
That roster is much improved over the current one...


Stopped reading at David Booth. We're the panthers retirement home when you just don't want to work anymore

#159 Son of a Wing

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:52 PM

Two Questions for people who believe there's a chance we move Franzen.

 

1.  When in the last decade (or ever) has Ken Holland traded away an established player from this team.  I recall Jason Williams.  Kozlov and Ward if you go over a decade.

 

2.  Why would he choose now to shake up the team?  Why trade one of our top goal scorers when one of our greatest needs is secondary scoring.  He's not as easy to replace as some people think.


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#160 DeGraa55

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 07:56 PM

“We have some more down there. (Luke) Glendening could help us for sure, (Xavier) Ouellet and (Ryan) Sproul as well. It’s good to have players knocking on the door.”
 
why is babcock so in love glendening? i know hes a responsible player but he will never be more than a 4th liner, meanwhile we got sheahan ferraro and callahan who are out of waiver options after the season and theres no mention of them
 
we have to bring them up for a few games and test them out , i know emmerton is a veteran but they should seriously send him down now and call one of them up ... emmerton has no future ijn detroit



That's because Ferraro and Callahan will be nothing more than fourth liners. Sheahan is a surprise....I personally felt he shouldve been up this year. But you know cleary and Sammy brings more I guess....LOL





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