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Richdg

Building a talent pipeline.

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Anaheim were looking to move Ryan for quite some time. So those circumstances favoured Ottawa a bit. And, for the record, Silfverberg > Nyquist (IMO).

But I see what you're saying.

I wonder if Nyquist + 1st would get us Wheeler?

I don't think it would land us Wheeler, but it would be a good starting point. Add a decent prospect, Pulkkinen or Jarnkrok and that might do it. Then again, I don't know if Winnipeg is looking for offense or defense. If they wanted defense I'd do Smith, 1st, and Marcheko for Wheeler, but that's just me.

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Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.

2013/14:

Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.

2014/15:

Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.

2015/16:

Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!

2016/17:

Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.

2017/18:

Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee, and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.

2018/19:

yet to be determined.......

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Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.

2013/14:

Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.

2014/15:

Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.

2015/16:

Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!

2016/17:

Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.

2017/18:

Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee, and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.

2018/19:

yet to be determined.......

Can we trade all those guys for Malkin? :ninja:

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Before we all come up with our opinions of trades, signing, etc..... please stop. Those are all opinions, I am trying to stay focused on what we actually know. We know what players are signed and under control. if others are added or subtracted later-which will happen in some form, we don't know that today. I for example am hoping they finally buyout franzen. With mounting health issues, that may come to pass. But again we don't know that today.

For example. Almquist either is on the team next year or he is gone. He will never pass through waivers. I expect a move involving him. But I can't say what that move is, thus he isn't listed. I would expect Holland to be smart enough to not just let him be taken in waivers.

So you just want to list players and when they're not waiver exempt? Almquist would most likley pass through waivers if needed. Nobody is going to want a midget defenseman who doesn't skate better than he does. He'll either sign a 2 way deal and try to win a spot in camp somewhere or go back home next year.

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Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.

2013/14:

Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.

2014/15:

Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.

2015/16:

Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!

2016/17:

Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.

2017/18:

Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee, and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.

2018/19:

yet to be determined.......

Yeah, but you can't simply say "a guy's up and playing well in the NHL and therefore don't trade him". If you never traded a guy who was playing well, you'd never get anything of value. You have to consider the possibility of trading a Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, Sheahan, Jurco (one of them, not multiple) if you want something of value. Nobody is going to give you a Wheeler, Ladd, Kane, etc. for unproven potential. You need to include guys that have shown they can play well in the NHL and then sweeten the pot with picks or prospects.

Which begs the question, "if a guy is playing well in the NHL then why trade him"? Which is the Ken Holland school of thought. You trade him because the guy you get back fills a need better, or because you're bleeding prospects and don't have room for them all, or the upside on the return is greater than what's going out. There's a ton of reasons to part with quality talent.

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The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys. The Wings have a bunch of guys like that. When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't. Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.

Rick D and sjr2012 like this

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The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys. The Wings have a bunch of guys like that. When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't. Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.

Agreed 3000%

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The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys. The Wings have a bunch of guys like that. When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't. Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.

But this begs the question: who would trade a large top 6 scoring winger for a small one? It's not like hockey is played on an army training-style obstacle course with little holes that guys have to crawl through.

Edited by rick zombo
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But this begs the question: who would trade a large top 6 scoring winger for a small one? It's not like hockey is played on an army training-style obstacle course with little holes that guys have to crawl through.

It wouldn't likely be a one for one trade. Nyquist + 1st, or something like that.

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The other thing I'd be looking for is a guy who's trending upward, but who isn't established yet. A guy like Neal was for Dallas. If you're willing to part with a quality piece you can usually get guys like this and hopefully they were scouted well enough that they can really flourish in your system. Obviously you need to have quality scouts (which we supposedly do) but also you wouldn't need to give up nearly as much as an established guy.

Following this line of though, one guy I've been interested in is Mikkel Boedker from Phoenix. He's defensively responsible, SUPER fast, young, and has pretty good size (6ft. 210 lbs.), and plays for a team that's not likely to push for a playoff spot. He's having a breakout year this year after moderate success in the past. This is the kind of under the radar move that could pay off huge in the future if the kid continues to develop upward. Plus, you certainly wouldn't need to give Nyquist and a 1st for him.

I don't know if this guy's the answer, but it's the kind of move I'd be looking at if I were Holland. Let everyone else battle it out for E. Kane, Vanek, Moulson, etc. and we make a solid cap savy move that helps now and in the future.

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Following this line of though, one guy I've been interested in is Mikkel Boedker from Phoenix. He's defensively responsible, SUPER fast, young, and has pretty good size (6ft. 210 lbs.), and plays for a team that's not likely to push for a playoff spot. He's having a breakout year this year after moderate success in the past. This is the kind of under the radar move that could pay off huge in the future if the kid continues to develop upward. Plus, you certainly wouldn't need to give Nyquist and a 1st for him.

Yes. This guy. I really like the Coyotes, even when we were in their conference. I would love to have him on the Wings and it wouldn't break the bank in order to get him!

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Love how it turned into a trade thread regardless. :lol:

I think Richdg really really really wants to plan out the next 5 years of the franchise...lol

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Love how it turned into a trade thread regardless. :lol:

I think Richdg really really really wants to plan out the next 5 years of the franchise...lol

That's true, I did get a little carried away with the hypotheticals here. I'm just super frustrated that nothing is being done to improve this team right now. Better to fantasize I guess.

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That's true, I did get a little carried away with the hypotheticals here. I'm just super frustrated that nothing is being done to improve this team right now. Better to fantasize I guess.

Totally understand. I'm on capgeek daily...

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thing is even though its true that we could move someone for different talent lets face it we KNOW our GM what major moves has he made in the cap era? snagging Hossa could have worked out like a charm but we all know what happened there I think its going to take a miracle for Holland to let go of anyone his like a little kid who cant decided which one of his favorite toys to put in the donation box its just to hard for him

Edited by sjr2012

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yes I do like to plan things out for a few years. In the business world it is called strategic planning, which the RW's need to improve at. The main focus of the draft and the minor leagues is to provide talent for the big club. You can do that 2 ways: drafting, developing, and keeping OR drafting developing and trading. At some point every roster has a hole. Some would say we currently have a lot of holes right now. So how do we fill those holes? What do we have coming? How long before they are ready? Are there positions of strength and depth that can be used to fill positions of weakness?

This thread kinda ties in with my 2014 draft thread. Where are we weak? The answer is: big scoring forwards. We have 2 good G prospects, a bunch of D prospects, a few grinder types and a few small skilled guys. laying the system out like this shows that very clearly. This allows us to make moves if/when Holland decides to move. Assuming he will of course......

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For JVR It would prob take nyquist, 1st round pick and a top prospect in GR

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Following this line of though, one guy I've been interested in is Mikkel Boedker from Phoenix. He's defensively responsible, SUPER fast, young, and has pretty good size (6ft. 210 lbs.), and plays for a team that's not likely to push for a playoff spot. He's having a breakout year this year after moderate success in the past. This is the kind of under the radar move that could pay off huge in the future if the kid continues to develop upward. Plus, you certainly wouldn't need to give Nyquist and a 1st for him.

I got to watch Boedker come through the AHL since our team was still affiliated with the Yotes at that time. Puck was always under his nose and he always seemed to be involved in the play. Me likey.

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I think its going to take a miracle for Holland to let go of anyone his like a little kid who cant decided which one of his favorite toys to put in the donation box its just to hard for him

Great analogy. I think this is a very accurate assessment of how Holland has approached signing in the last few years. To take is a step further, he won't let go of his new toys, because the last one he gave away (Hossa) ended up being the coolest toy on the block, while he was stuck holding a toy that was constantly breaking (Franzen). Additionally, he has an extremely restrictive sense of nostalgia. He knows some of the toys are beyond repair (Cleary), but he can't bring himself to give it away because they remind him of better days; even though letting go would ultimately make him happy. Lastly, there are toys that he over payed for and refuses to acknowledge was a bad decision (Quincey).

I think what makes the analogy so apt is that it brings to mind how childish Holland is being. He needs to make difficult decisions, but is acting like a scared, selfish child.

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I got to watch Boedker come through the AHL since our team was still affiliated with the Yotes at that time. Puck was always under his nose and he always seemed to be involved in the play. Me likey.

I mean, superficially he seems like the kind of guy that would work for us. He's developed in a defense first system, he's got real good speed, and is producing well despite less offensively gifted linemates. Give him some shifts with our skill guys and it seems like he should flourish.

One thing I really like about him is that he gets very little PP time. So almost all of his pretty impressive production has come 5-on-5, which would be a big help on our team.

But I don't want to sit here and pretend that I know what guys the team should specifically target. I just know that year after year we all sit and speculate about all the big named targets and it never pans out. Maybe the under the radar moves are the more realistic option.

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Great analogy. I think this is a very accurate assessment of how Holland has approached signing in the last few years. To take is a step further, he won't let go of his new toys, because the last one he gave away (Hossa) ended up being the coolest toy on the block, while he was stuck holding a toy that was constantly breaking (Franzen). Additionally, he has an extremely restrictive sense of nostalgia. He knows some of the toys are beyond repair (Cleary), but he can't bring himself to give it away because they remind him of better days; even though letting go would ultimately make him happy. Lastly, there are toys that he over payed for and refuses to acknowledge was a bad decision (Quincey).

I think what makes the analogy so apt is that it brings to mind how childish Holland is being. He needs to make difficult decisions, but is acting like a scared, selfish child.

Spot on..........i think if holland isnt going to try to make the quote unquote tough decisions than he needs to step down and give someone else a shot it is hard to cut ties and part ways with guys who er were a big part of our cup run but thats over now truth is cleary WAS a good player his not anymore and sammy WAS a decent player but he can barley crack this lineup we need to move on and give the shots to someone else the kids cant all come up and be Datsuyks and Zettys so we need to have a combination of them, a few of our vets, a nice big forward who can score some goals to add to it and you have the ingredients for a nice run or possibly a cup run if the moves are right the time has come for holland to s*** or get off the pot

Edited by sjr2012

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It's easy to be frustrated at holland but its the injuries that are killing us. Although holland has been very mediocre in his choices lately

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