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Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?


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#1741 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:18 PM

Ever think that the "don't sell" order is coming from upstairs? Holland has people he reports to, and playoff games add a lot of cash.

Not if the Wings become the mid-late 2000s Flames and attendance drops. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1742 Dabura

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:20 PM

We're gonna stand pat and then Kronwall is gonna slip on a puck and break his arms. Then we're gonna wish we hadn't stood pat. Then we're gonna re-sign Quincey.


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#1743 joesuffP

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:20 PM

 
We won't make the playoffs - but we'll have a mid-first-round pick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We could keep that pick, clear space for roster players next year and make our team better. Watch what Erhoff will go for

#1744 rick zombo

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:21 PM

Not if the Wings become the mid-late 2000s Flames and attendance drops. 

 

That's not happening. And you know why? The mid-late 2000s Flames were never the 1996-2009 Red Wings.


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#1745 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:23 PM

 

That's not happening. And you know why? The mid-late 2000s Flames were never the 1996-2009 Red Wings.

What does that have to do with anything? My point is the Wings have been following a recipe of mediocrity the last few seasons which leave them in the worst possible spot a team can be in: Too good for a high pick, too bad to be an actual contender. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1746 wings87

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:26 PM

Well, it seems that other teams are now the front-runners for the players the Wings were rumored to be interested in, at least the high-profile ones. And the low-profile ones that the Wings were linked to have gone suspiciously quiet. If past day-before-deadline behavior is any indicator, it looks like Holland will really stand pat.


Not surprised since the Wings are rarely front-runners. If Holland ends up making a trade it will be as a dark horse.

We're gonna stand pat and then Kronwall is gonna slip on a puck and break his arms. Then we're gonna wish we hadn't stood pat. Then we're gonna re-sign Quincey.


Bite your tongue you heathen.

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#1747 brooklynsour

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:29 PM

@joesuffp im sure they have bigger plans for offseason and they probably have some guys on a list,,,, I hope.... Yea what the wings were doing and did over the last 20 years we might not witness another franchise pull something like that in NHL, does any1 know whose after the wings in consecutive playoff? @dabura jinx!! Don't say things like that! Please! @shaman it really seems so unfortunately but we have some young players that seem to be taking a step forward between last year and this one hopefully next season they'll show the coaching and improvements Who ever said thee intresr in Quincey I believe when I see it...

Edited by brooklynsour, 04 March 2014 - 03:30 PM.


#1748 rick zombo

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:30 PM

What does that have to do with anything? My point is the Wings have been following a recipe of mediocrity the last few seasons which leave them in the worst possible spot a team can be in: Too good for a high pick, too bad to be an actual contender. 

 

Not to stray too much from the topic at hand.

 

The mediocre Flames you speak of traded a lot of picks and prospects away trying to become contenders. Holland's not doing that. Which is good. Also, the Flames drafting has been s***tier than Taco Bell. Compare the Flames to St Louis. Very similar arcs, but drastically different results.

 

Also, unless you want Holland to trade away Datsyuk, Z, Kronwall, and Howard and go into full-blown rebuild, do you really think trading Helm is going to turn us into Chicago or LA in 5 years?


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#1749 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:35 PM

 

Not to stray too much from the topic at hand.

 

The mediocre Flames you speak of traded a lot of picks and prospects away trying to become contenders. Holland's not doing that. Which is good. Also, the Flames drafting has been s***tier than Taco Bell. Compare the Flames to St Louis. Very similar arcs, but drastically different results.

 

Also, unless you want Holland to trade away Datsyuk, Z, Kronwall, and Howard and go into full-blown rebuild, do you really think trading Helm is going to turn us into Chicago or LA in 5 years?

Those aren't the only players with value. Bertuzzi could easily fetch a 3rd rounder if Rhobidas did, Abdelkader and Andersson both could be worth a high-ish pick based upon the pattern of the last couple years. Even Helm based on what Gaustad got should be worth 2nd or more.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1750 Son of a Wing

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:35 PM

What does that have to do with anything? My point is the Wings have been following a recipe of mediocrity the last few seasons which leave them in the worst possible spot a team can be in: Too good for a high pick, too bad to be an actual contender. 

 

Actually they've been rebuilding on the fly while maintaining playoff contention. 

 

How this is can be viewed as a negative thing is beyond me...

 

Enough of this "tank vs all in" mentality. 


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
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When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#1751 number9

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:35 PM

Red Wings don't rebuild, they reload (Anyone around here still believe that?)

#1752 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

 

Actually they've been rebuilding on the fly while maintaining playoff contention. 

 

How this is can be viewed as a negative thing is beyond me...

 

Enough of this "tank vs all in" mentality. 

About 2/3rds of the teams in the NHL are in playoff contention. Only the very bottom 1/3rd is really out of it at the deadline. This isn't some huge accomplishment.

 

This season realistically over 3 quarters of the NHL is currently in playoff contention. That includes 7 teams that will be eligible for the draft lottery when it's all said and done.


Edited by Shaman, 04 March 2014 - 03:43 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1753 Son of a Wing

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:41 PM

About 2/3rds of the teams in the NHL are in playoff contention. Only the very bottom 1/3rd is really out of it at the deadline. This isn't some huge accomplishment.

 

Exactly.  The playing field has leveled and parity is everywhere. Yet we're still right there AND have a deep prospect pool.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#1754 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:44 PM

 

Exactly.  The playing field has leveled and parity is everywhere. Yet we're still right there AND have a deep prospect pool.

Every team but the absolute worst teams are right there. And the deep prospect pool is mostly boom/bust types, other than Mantha there is no one in the pool that should be considered as a blue chip prospect. 

 

So as I said, as it stands teams within a couple points of a playoff spot account for 76%+ of the league. Being in playoff contention isn't an accomplishment. Being in Cup contention is what this team should be shooting for. 

 

Remember how Holland's half measures prepared this team for losing 3 defensemen, wait until it's 3 (Z, D and Franzen) top 6 forwards.


Edited by Shaman, 04 March 2014 - 03:51 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1755 DickieDunn

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:51 PM


 
Exactly.  The playing field has leveled and parity is everywhere. Yet we're still right there AND have a deep prospect pool.


Every team but the absolute worst teams are right there. And the deep prospect pool is mostly boom/bust types, other than Mantha there is no one in the pool that should be considered as a blue chip prospect. 


Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha, Athanasiou, Jurco and Jarnkrok all have top end potential. Pulkinen and Sheahan are potential 2nd line forwards. Marchenko, Ouellet, Backman, and Jensen all project as solid to good NHL d-men. Then there are Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser. This team will not go the way of the Flames.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#1756 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:57 PM

Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha, Athanasiou, Jurco and Jarnkrok all have top end potential. Pulkinen and Sheahan are potential 2nd line forwards. Marchenko, Ouellet, Backman, and Jensen all project as solid to good NHL d-men. Then there are Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser. This team will not go the way of the Flames.

 

 

Athanasiou doesn't have top end potential. Sproul could, but, defensemen are a crapshoot especially early in their career, look at Smith and Kindl. Jarnkrok outside of his current hotsteak hasn't adjusted that well to the North American game and I would still label him as boom-bust. Pulkkinen will be the next Gretzky, no one is allowed to question that.  

 

But if half of them become everyday NHL players the Red Wings will have hit gold, and even if only 1/3rd pan out they will consider those draft years successful. But as I said, other than Mantha not one of those are blue-chip talent, they all could be NHL players, or they could not, its still up in the air. 

 

Also you have to take the time consideration into it by the time most of these players make it to the NHL, if they ever do, and adjust enough to make an impact more than likely Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Franzen are either retired or declining. 


Edited by Shaman, 04 March 2014 - 04:00 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1757 Bully76

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha, Athanasiou, Jurco and Jarnkrok all have top end potential. Pulkinen and Sheahan are potential 2nd line forwards. Marchenko, Ouellet, Backman, and Jensen all project as solid to good NHL d-men. Then there are Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser. This team will not go the way of the Flames.

Agreed. We've all probably been frustrated at one time or another (or all the time for some people) with Holland's fear of making big-ish moves via trade over the years, but I still give him and the rest of the front office credit for drafting from low rounds quite well for so many years. Some of these long-term contracts and re-signings made me do a face-palm like many others. Maybe people are right for hammering him over his propensity to err on the side of caution, but I'm still happy to see the young talent we've got coming up (even if many of them age in the minors longer than we'd like). This is all part of the payment for how much we got to enjoy the run from the mid-90s to 2009. All that said, damn it would be cool to see a real move at the deadline for somebody who can help right now on the blue line or a power forward or something.


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#1758 DickieDunn

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:04 PM


Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha, Athanasiou, Jurco and Jarnkrok all have top end potential. Pulkinen and Sheahan are potential 2nd line forwards. Marchenko, Ouellet, Backman, and Jensen all project as solid to good NHL d-men. Then there are Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser. This team will not go the way of the Flames.


 
 
Athanasiou doesn't have top end potential. Sproul could, but, defensemen are a crapshoot especially early in their career, look at Smith and Kindl. Jarnkrok outside of his current hotsteak hasn't adjusted that well to the North American game and I would still label him as boom-bust. Pulkkinen will be the next Gretzky, no one is allowed to question that.  
 
But if half of them become everyday NHL players the Red Wings will have hit gold, and even if only 1/3rd pan out they will consider those draft years successful. But as I said, other than Mantha not one of those are blue-chip talent, they all could be NHL players, or they could not, its still up in the air. 


What makes you say that about Athanasiou? He has size, elite speed, is scoring a ton and is willing to work at his weaknesses. Sproul might end up not making it, but the same can be said for anyone. I'd say that Jarnkrok's hot streak means he's adjusted. Pulk might not make it but his overall game has already improved and the kid is a sponge for info.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#1759 Shaman

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:11 PM

What makes you say that about Athanasiou? He has size, elite speed, is scoring a ton and is willing to work at his weaknesses. Sproul might end up not making it, but the same can be said for anyone. I'd say that Jarnkrok's hot streak means he's adjusted. Pulk might not make it but his overall game has already improved and the kid is a sponge for info.

 

Athanasiou's numbers look good in the OHL, but, he's not like Mantha in the QMJHL where it's his second season, Athanasiou is I believe in his 4th year in the OHL. Players who take that long to develop in the OHL tend not to translate well into the AHL/NHL. He projects to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener if he makes it, and that would only happen if he decides to play on both sides of the puck, his defensive work ethic has been a huge sticking point of his.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#1760 Son of a Wing

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:15 PM

 

Athanasiou's numbers look good in the OHL, but, he's not like Mantha in the QMJHL where it's his second season, Athanasiou is I believe in his 4th year in the OHL. Players who take that long to develop in the OHL tend not to translate well into the AHL/NHL. He projects to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener if he makes it, and that would only happen if he decides to play on both sides of the puck, his defensive work ethic has been a huge sticking point of his.

 

It's Mantha's 3rd season. Athansiou has played one more year and is only 1 month older than Mantha....


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”





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