UFA/RFA Re-Signing, What Does Everyone Get?

[PumpkinEscobar 136]

Wouldn't be opposed to Alfie signing for 1 and Legwand for 2

[DickieDunn 2,571]

You guys are ridiculously undervaluing Tatar and DD. Someone can offer sheet them $3.3M AAV and only have to give up a 2nd in compensation.

Dekeyser might get a big offere sheet, but it'd be matched, so nobody would bother. Tatar wouldn't get that much.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Alfredsson gets around $4 mil Legwand gets $4 mil Dekeyser gets $1.8 mil Tatar $1.1 mil Sheahan $925k Glendening, Callahan, and Ferraro get around $600k Quincey might get $2 mil but it will be later in the process if they can't upgrade and don't want to bring up a rookie Almquist, Bertuzzi, and Cleary are gone. The RFA guys have little leverage do they get less than they probably deserve. Tatar gets a bit more than Nyquist because he's proven more than Nyquist had before he signed his contract. No room for Almquist. Bert gets an off ice job. Cleary moves on, no room for him.

I think Q is gone and Ouellet wins the Calder Trophy.

[larionov_8 12]

I agree with Dickie, re: Jurco. He's waiver exempt so I think it's likely he'll start in GR. And my impression (from around here) was that Glendening is also waiver-exempt, at least heading into next year so that would potentially "free up" another spot (though Babs probably wants him on the roster). As we know from this year, the most worthy players don't always start out the year with the big club!

I've also got the impression from around here that Almquist is not waiver-exempt next year, but did he not sign his contract a year later than Callahan and Ferraro? I know there are other factors that influence waiver exemption but I'm not informed enough to break it down. I think it's clear that Callahan and Ferraro are not waiver-exempt in 2014-15, but do we know definitively whether that's true of Almquist too?

I wouldn't be surprised if Wings have to / choose to expose one of those guys to waivers next year -- they did so with Emmerton so I'd assume they'd do the same, at least for Callahan, if needed.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I agree with Dickie, re: Jurco. He's waiver exempt so I think it's likely he'll start in GR. And my impression (from around here) was that Glendening is also waiver-exempt, at least heading into next year so that would potentially "free up" another spot (though Babs probably wants him on the roster). As we know from this year, the most worthy players don't always start out the year with the big club!

I've also got the impression from around here that Almquist is not waiver-exempt next year, but did he not sign his contract a year later than Callahan and Ferraro? I know there are other factors that influence waiver exemption but I'm not informed enough to break it down. I think it's clear that Callahan and Ferraro are not waiver-exempt in 2014-15, but do we know definitively whether that's true of Almquist too?

I wouldn't be surprised if Wings have to / choose to expose one of those guys to waivers next year -- they did so with Emmerton so I'd assume they'd do the same, at least for Callahan, if needed.

Glendening is most likely going to have to clear waivers. He probably wouldn't be claimed though and if he is it won't be s big deal.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

The only way Jurco stays is if they only sign one free agent. If they sign 2 guys there's no room for him. They have 7 players who are under contract or are restricted free agents who slot into the top 3 lines, including Helm who they will assume will play. Two free agents will fill out the top 9 spots. I expect Legwand to sign a 2 or 3 year extension for around $4 mil, and for Alfredsson to come back at around $4 mil. That leaves some combination of:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Franzen-Legwand-Nyquist

Tatar-Helm-Weiss

If Helm has more issues (at least he's out with a mild concussion now, if it was his back I'd be more worried) then I think Jurco gets the call, Weiss or Legwand centers the 3rd between Tatar and Jurco.

That leaves Miller, Sheahan, Abdelkader on the 4th line, with Andersson, Callahan, Glendening, and Ferraro fighting for the 2 reserve spots.

Even if they only sign one forward, Jurco doesn't have to clear waivers, so I think that means he will be in GR. Sheahan, Abdlekader, or Andersson will get a scoring line role and one less player will be exposed to waivers.

A trade is also possible. Kesler should be available, and if Sheahan has a good run towards the end of the season and the playoffs, a package of Sheahan, Tatar, and Kindl might get it done. If so, Detroit has to seriously consider it.

excuse me, but I may have gotten confused by your wording. Helm is signed another two years after this one, he is not a free agent. I assume Alfie will retire or play one more year in the D (he will not uproot his family again) DD will get around $2mil, Tatar $1.5mil, Sheahan $1mil, Glendening will get the minimum they can offer mrazek will be backup, Legwand will get $4.25 mil for 3 years, quincey, cleary, sammy, and bert will be gone, and we will somehow sign a top 4 dman with the $6mil we have left after all that, and we will have a deadly team (I factored in $3mil for alfie plus his bonus rollover)

[LeftWinger 5,129]

say what you want, but Legwand will more than likely re-sign and unless Holland doesn't want to give Weiss a shot, and buys him out or convinces him to waive his NTC, the two guys on the bubble are Andersson and Helm. Sheahan and Glendening have made both tradable assets. Only thing saving one of them is Glendening has waiver exemptions left.

[LeftWinger 5,129]

Jurco and Glenny can start the season in Rapids.

Dickie, no way Sheahan gets moved, especially not for Kesler. It is ridiculous to even suggest it. As well as suggest Tatar. Holland wasn't selling them last week, he won't sell them in June. We don't need Kesler. We need a solid #3 defenseman.

[Buppy 1,720]

I think it's pretty reasonable to assume Bert will be back with a paycut, say 1.25m or something -- similar to Cleary. He's not as bad as Cleary and seems like he won't just hang them up without a fight. That being said I don't think he's been good. I liked him last year. This year is clearly his worst.

He barely played last year. I think he's played well since getting back into the lineup, and not just as a backboard for Franzen to bounce goals off of. He has been pretty ineffective for most of the year though, and I don't think he'll be back.

We are full at the inn, no need to bring back most/all of the old UFA's.

Baring trades of course we already have the following lineup for next season:

Z-Dat-Franzen

Jurco-Weiss-tatar

Nyquist-Helm-Pulk

Abby-Sheahan-Callahan

Miller-Andersson-Glendening

E-Kronwall

Dekeyser-Smith

Lashoff-Kindl

Almqvist

Howard

McCollom

The only one of our UFA's that I am interested in bring back is Legwand, but we need to open a spot for him first. If resigned-in the 2.5-3 million range that frees up Helm, Andersson and 1 more to make a move.

I'd say there's basically zero chance of Pulkkinen being on the roster. He'll likely get a call-up or three, but there's no reason to rush him. He's more valuable as injury insurance, and should develop better playing a top role in GR. I'd say there's a very good chance Jurco goes back to GR as well, for the same reasons.

Glendening has 23 games of exemption left. If we make the playoffs, he may use those up. Even if he doesn't he may be back in a PK role, but there's a fair chance he could start in GR.

Callahan, despite playing well this year, has got to be considered a longshot to make the team. I'd expect him (and Ferraro and Emmerton) to get a chance in camp, but I wouldn't expect anything more.

So we have 1-3 openings at forward. I think there's a good chance Legwand and Alfie are both back, and possibly another UFA.

[number9 3,297]

I disagree with Bert playing well. Specifically, he doesn't look like he knows where to go in both zones (which I don't understand with his once offensive prowess) in different situations and he's slowing down. He's still the best backboard we got though, so I guess there's value in that. That AMA guy said he's the locker room bad ass too. So if we need a father figure for the young NA boys I guess there's that too.

[number9 3,297]

Here's what I think our FA's could demand (not what they will command)

Legwand (4 to 5.5)
Alfredsson (3 to 5.5)
Bertuzzi (1 to 2)
Cleary (1)
Tatar (1 to 3)
Sheahan (1 to 2.5)
Glendening (1 to 1.5)
Quincey (1.5 to 2.5)
DeKeyser (2.5 to 3.5)
Gustavsson (1.5 to 2)

I think we can all assume Cleary is gone. But say all the others are re-signed at their max asking price, we're above the cap by 3.5 (that's with forcing Sheahan, and Jurco down, and having a 23 man roster) that's not bad considering most those guys won't get those numbers, and thinking that 1-2 of Alfredsson, Bertuzzi, Quincey won't be back either.

[Richdg 267]

yes lets send one of our best players right now back to GR. That is a great way to build a winning club. Jurco is playing GREAT! yes he is young. yes he will make mistakes. But way waste money of a 40 year old? Pulk needs to come up and play a few games as well. Our 2/3 lines should be filled with our young talent. Put the 3 old F on the top line and the bangers on the 4th line. leaves the money free for real quality UFA's.

as for the OP's original question, most of the RFA's will be around .8-1 million per. Dekeyser will be much higher. 2 years ago I said Abby and helm would get 4-4.5 million per year for the 2 of them. Don't doubt me on this. Dekeyser will get 2-2.5 million per for 3 years on a bridge contract.

[number9 3,297]

yes lets send one of our best players right now back to GR. That is a great way to build a winning club. Jurco is playing GREAT! yes he is young. yes he will make mistakes. But way waste money of a 40 year old? Pulk needs to come up and play a few games as well. Our 2/3 lines should be filled with our young talent. Put the 3 old F on the top line and the bangers on the 4th line. leaves the money free for real quality UFA's.

as for the OP's original question, most of the RFA's will be around .8-1 million per. Dekeyser will be much higher. 2 years ago I said Abby and helm would get 4-4.5 million per year for the 2 of them. Don't doubt me on this. Dekeyser will get 2-2.5 million per for 3 years on a bridge contract.

If all are re-signed but Cleary and the team is healthy, u have to send Jurco and Sheahan down. Only ones eligible.

[FireCaptain 563]

I don't know where the first page of this thread gets the idea that Alfie is done after this season. If he doesn't retire (seems unlikely since he's playing well and apparently having fun), both he and DRW want to have him here next year.

http://www.thedetroitsportssite.com/2014/03/07/detroit-red-wings-rumors-daniel-alfredsson-would-like-to-come-back-if-he-keeps-playing/42160

[Buppy 1,720]

yes lets send one of our best players right now back to GR. That is a great way to build a winning club. Jurco is playing GREAT! yes he is young. yes he will make mistakes. But way waste money of a 40 year old? Pulk needs to come up and play a few games as well. Our 2/3 lines should be filled with our young talent. Put the 3 old F on the top line and the bangers on the 4th line. leaves the money free for real quality UFA's.

...

Jurco is not one of our best players. Debatable that he's even one of the best healthy players. He's been decent overall, and nicely productive his last few games. Though for his time up as a whole he's only been the third best player on his line. Pulkkinen, as well as he's doing in GR, hasn't played a game in the NHL.

If you have all the kids up, you don't even have any room for a "real quality UFA", and very few options to call up in case of injuries.

Starters

Pav-Hank-Franzen

Nyquist-Weiss-Pulu

Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar

Abby-Helm-Andy

Bench

Miller-Glendening/Callahan/Ferraro/Emmerton/Tootoo

Call-ups

Probably Mantha and Athanasiou, maybe Frk, longshot Tvrdon

That lineup is already light on good PKers, having to rely on two of Abby, Sheahan, or Weiss, or have Pav and Hank waste energy doing it. And the call-ups are very questionable, considering literally none of them have done anything in even the AHL yet. And if you add a "real quality UFA", where do you put him/them? The only logical spot is in for Pulkkinen and/or Jurco.

I can understand if you want better UFAs than Legwand and Alfie, but there's not really a good argument for having Pulu and Jurco on the roster, unless they can somehow show they'd be better than any potential UFAs. Personally, I like the idea of a stopgap solution, just like with the defense. Sign a couple guys for a year so there's room the next year for those two. Alfie and Legwand are good options for that. Alternatively, a couple good two-way guys (or at least one) would make some other guys expendable.

Now, if there's some kind of trade it might open up a spot, and if a big enough upgrade it might be worth losing the depth in GR. Helm + Tatar (though not much more) for Kesler? Sure. Jurco makes that viable, and I think we'd be enough better to risk having one fewer call-up option. (Unfortunately, it will probably take two more years plus a surprise Henrik Sedin trade before Vancouver actually moves Kesler...)

[Danielsm 244]

Alfredsson moved his whole family to Detroit. If he wasn't serious about staying, the family could have lived in Ottawa. I think he'll play another year or two, and he should. He's been great.

[wings87 1,290]

Alfredsson moved his whole family to Detroit. If he wasn't serious about staying, the family could have lived in Ottawa. I think he'll play another year or two, and he should. He's been great.

I think he'll resign, and was real good early on; but since being relegated to the third line he's been pretty invisible.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Hard to score when you're playing with Glendening and Abdelkader

[larionov_8 12]

Not to get off topic, as this has an influence on who makes what, but I think this year's experience demonstrates that the wisest course of action would have Jurco and Glendening start the year in GR. There will be injuries, and when there are, I'd rather see these guys, who have shown they are capable, fill a role, over a player who may not be ready. Meanwhile they can play big minutes and continue to learn how to win with GR.

Given that we have enough youth already (Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Andersson, plus potentially Ferraro and Callahan - Helm and Abby aren't "old" and there are 3 young guys on the D too), there is value in filling out the roster with veterans who can also fill some roles (e.g. Legwand and Alfie). That gives us the kind of depth needed to compete in this league when those injuries hit. I think this stretch of games right now is showing that it is a lot to ask of these young guys to drive the bus themselves. Hopefully they will be ready to take on bigger roles as they develop but they are still young and raw in some ways.

On a less argumentative note, can anyone explain why Almquist is / is not waiver-exempt in 2014-15?

[Buppy 1,720]

...

On a less argumentative note, can anyone explain why Almquist is / is not waiver-exempt in 2014-15?

Waiver status is determined by a few factors: The players age during the first season of their first NHL contract sets the number of years or games played the player has to reach before losing their exemption. Once a player plays that number of NHL games, or after that number of seasons (regardless of whether the player is in the NHL or not), the player then has to clear waivers.

In Almquist's case, he signed his first contract at age 20, for the 2011-12 season. This gave him 3 years or 160 games (the games were then reduced due to the lockout, but that's not a factor in his case). This is his third pro season, so he needs to clear waivers next year.

There are some tricky parts to the waiver rules, mostly pertaining to players who sign at 18/19 and play in the NHL. Easiest way to check waiver status is with http://capgeek.com/waiver-calculator/. Just note that the "To date" line does not include this season, so if it says the player has 1 year left, it means they would need to clear next year.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Legwand back 3yrs/3.5 or 4, Alfie back 1yr/4, re-sign all the RFAs, Gus back 2yrs/2.75. If we can't upgrade the D, Quincey at a reduced rate wouldn't be terrible.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Nyquist-Legwand-Franzen

Tatar-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Helm-Sheahan

Callahan, Andersson/Glendening/Ferraro

That's a seriously deep, and potent forward group. Jurco gets back in the line-up when Alfie retires, because he's waiver exempt.

[larionov_8 12]

...

There are some tricky parts to the waiver rules, mostly pertaining to players who sign at 18/19 and play in the NHL. Easiest way to check waiver status is with http://capgeek.com/waiver-calculator/. Just note that the "To date" line does not include this season, so if it says the player has 1 year left, it means they would need to clear next year.

Thanks Buppy. I knew of capgeek's waiver calculator but it tells me that he has 2 years of exemption (2 left this year, one next year). Since I had heard he wouldn't be exempt next year, I was trying to get a handle on how that's calculated and what the right answer is!

Fortunately there are people who get paid to figure these things out so I don't need to worry about it too much....

[Buppy 1,720]

Thanks Buppy. I knew of capgeek's waiver calculator but it tells me that he has 2 years of exemption (2 left this year, one next year). Since I had heard he wouldn't be exempt next year, I was trying to get a handle on how that's calculated and what the right answer is!

Fortunately there are people who get paid to figure these things out so I don't need to worry about it too much....

No problem. One other note is "Professional games" means games in any pro league, not just the NHL. AHL, ECHL, and any European pro leagues all count. For a player signed at age 20 or older, the first season he plays one pro game counts as their first season of exemption, and every season thereafter counts even if they don't play any pro games. The rules are different for players signed at 18 or 19; the first year of their contract is their first year of exemption even if they only play in juniors.

[VM1138 1,921]

Don't forget Alfie has a bonus next season that counts against the cap. $2.5 million, I think. So trchnically he agreed to play here for $5. Unless a second year was part of a gentleman's agreement he will command about $5 million more, giving him a cap hit of about $7 million, I think.

Unless they finagle a two year deal for less. Still, I want him back. But playing him on the third is one of the dumber things Babcock has done.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Don't forget Alfie has a bonus next season that counts against the cap. $2.5 million, I think. So trchnically he agreed to play here for $5. Unless a second year was part of a gentleman's agreement he will command about $5 million more, giving him a cap hit of about $7 million, I think.

Unless they finagle a two year deal for less. Still, I want him back. But playing him on the third is one of the dumber things Babcock has done.

$2 mil of his deal is bonus money that can be deferred.

They have 7 guys who can score. Andersson hasn't been getting the job done so they might as well toss someone else in. It would be dumb to break up the kid line or the Franzen-Nyquist combo when they're hot. That leaves Alfredsson as the odd man out.