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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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I'm mostly looking at Stanley cup teams. And weren't the kings pretty bad to not too long ago? Same with stl and Colorado.

And it don't work with edm and Florida for example because they're missing the next key ingredient. A good front office and coaching etc etc. using the wings for example.

We were terrible drafted Stevie y and others. And thanks to having a great front office and coaching an scouting. We were able to draft arts with crappy picks and make some key trades which allowed us to continue our success for so long.

And some of the other good teams that have good management is a reason why they maintain success. Teams like Mtl nyr boston and I personally feel Colorado will now be successful again for a decade or two.

You can't JUST TANK and expect to win. You need more then just that.

Also I'm NOT saying we should tank. I agree with what you said we need to trim the fat and add a few key pieces. The argument is WILL HOLLAND EVER ACTUALLYf****** DO IT?

And with what you guys said about Holland complimenting Quincey I'm now scared he will be brought back.

If Holland re-signs Bertuzzi, Quincey, Cleary, etc. I will be on your bandwagon (though Q at a lesser price I'll understand if no other Dmen can be acquired).

The point is we have a very skilled front office. While yes overly shrewd, they have the best eye for talent. If they can run with the core and young talent next season I believe we'll be sitting pretty... Hopefully Holland doesn't try to compensate for this years injuries by signing more vets again.

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I agree with the organizational philosophy completely. Again, I'm not trying to give off the impression that there's something wrong with seeing Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, Mrazek as the future core of this team. Given how they've shown up so far I'd say it's a REALLY good idea. But I do think you have to make decisions based on the new realities these guys have created. We essentially just got a (very good) third line, a top six forward, and backup goalie for free. Two years ago none of these guys (maybe Nyquist) were even on our radar. Tatar was an afterthought, and the rising star was Smith. All of that has changed because injuries showed that most of these guys were the real deal and many are ready now.

As such, we have the luxury of having a "fourth" line of Abby-Helm-Miller if we want, who can play 12-15 minutes of effective hockey (as opposed to the 6-8 our fourth currently plays). We don't need to have these guys playing a bigger role, and in truth, they're likely not suited for a bigger role. Reducing their roles means Abby isn't counted on for goals, Helm probably stays healthier, and we now have favorable matchups against deep teams. But that requires the org. rethink the roles Abby and Helm play on the team (not so much Miller his is the same). Similarly, having such high end young defensive talent makes Kindl redundant and means that you no longer have to hope that Smith will develop into a top four guy. Drop him to the third pair permanently and his mistakes are less costly (or less frequent).

Best part is, all these young guys have shown they're capable of taking on big roles but don't get paid s***...so we're cap friendly for at least 2-3 years. Just in case we decide we need a high end free agent to fill a role (top six winger, top four defenseman?).

But none of that's going to happen if Holland doesn't move (or consider moving) guys like Kindl and Andersson, letting the old guys walk, and reconsidering what roles Smith, Helm, and Abby play on this team.

That's my rationale anyway, but it's a good discussion so I'm certainly willing to reconsider if I'm missing something that you've picked up on.

I think I get where you're coming from.

On defense, cutting loose from Kindl and/or Smith would open the door for other improvements white not getting in the way of the next wave. I'd agree there, though not necessarily that there needs to be a "permanent" decision regarding Smith just yet (or at least not if we dump Kindl).

At forward, I don't think we need to make those decisions. Or more precisely, I think some of them have already been made. I think letting the old guys (Bert, Cleary, Sammy) walk has been the plan all along, so I don't see that as being any kind of change. Andersson is at the bottom of the roster, so I don't think it's particularly important what decision they make there. I could see Helm and Abby having some influence on what type of forward we try to add, but not a very big one. I don't think we're going to intentionally go looking for a forward who can't play in the top 6 because we think Abby can do it.

I think what we add at forward will be determined by what's available and what we can afford, with some consideration to the fact that Jurco and Pulkkinen are out of options after next year (and neither of them is a penalty killer so we can't slot them in for guys like Miller, Andy, Glendening). Then the decisions regarding team roles will be made afterward.

Edited by Buppy

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If Holland re-signs Bertuzzi, Quincey, Cleary, etc. I will be on your bandwagon (though Q at a lesser price I'll understand if no other Dmen can be acquired).

The point is we have a very skilled front office. While yes overly shrewd, they have the best eye for talent. If they can run with the core and young talent next season I believe we'll be sitting pretty... Hopefully Holland doesn't try to compensate for this years injuries by signing more vets again.

When you consider only 1 rookie got injured and that was due to a crosscheck to the ribs that would have happened to anyone I think the lesson to be learned is that our young talent is reliable, robust, and deserves roster spots in the future. Re-signing Bert, Cleary, Sammy who have all been injured often is so ridiculous when they hardly play anymore and when they do they are nursing some injury. Quincey, while I don't want him re-signed, has at least been healthy somehow.

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When you consider only 1 rookie got injured and that was due to a crosscheck to the ribs that would have happened to anyone I think the lesson to be learned is that our young talent is reliable, robust, and deserves roster spots in the future. Re-signing Bert, Cleary, Sammy who have all been injured often is so ridiculous when they hardly play anymore and when they do they are nursing some injury. Quincey, while I don't want him re-signed, has at least been healthy somehow.

You had to go there? Haven't we learned anything this season on LGW...? You can't say players are healthy, it never ends well. face-slap.gif

wingedominance13 likes this

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When you consider only 1 rookie got injured and that was due to a crosscheck to the ribs that would have happened to anyone I think the lesson to be learned is that our young talent is reliable, robust, and deserves roster spots in the future. Re-signing Bert, Cleary, Sammy who have all been injured often is so ridiculous when they hardly play anymore and when they do they are nursing some injury. Quincey, while I don't want him re-signed, has at least been healthy somehow.

If you mean re-signed instead of Tatar and Sheahan, or in some important capacity...Yeah. So ridiculous I don't even understand why it's being brought up so often.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abby

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Sheahan-?

Miller-Helm-Andy

Ferraro/Callahan/Tootoo/Emmerton

That's what we have, just with guys already signed or pending RFAs who are out of exemptions (I think there's a couple other kids, but they don't seem be NHL level). Already one too many forwards, if we want to believe Ferraro and Callahan can play. There's also a chance Glendening will burn out his waiver exemptions this year.

There's a world of difference between sending a kid down when you have that option and needing to waive someone. As of now, we have one hole in the lineup and could potentially create a second and third. Basically, the 4 guys at the bottom could all go.

I get the sense that people want Jurco and/or Pulkkinen on the team. There is one opening in the lineup, if we don't sign any UFAs, but I think we can do better. I'd say Alfie or Legwand would be better.

I just don't see how there's room to even worry about those guys. I guess it's theoretically possible, if Alfie and Legwand don't want to come back. Just seems so unlikely. (Then again, I thought it was unlikely that Miller and Cleary would be here this year, though I think Helm's injury and the apparent loss of confidence in Emmerton played a part there.)

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I don't want to let Legwand walk considering we have sunk Jarnkrok into acquiring him.



Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfie


Nyquist-Weiss-Franzen


Tatar-Sheahan-Legwand


Miller-Helm-Abby


Ferraro/Callahan



Trade Andersson, Buyout Tootoo


Following year we bring up Jurco full time in place of Alfie. Leave Mantha for a season or two in GR then move someone to make room.



That leaves GR with top prospects like Pulkkinen, Jurco, Mantha, AA and the cupboard doesn't look so bare.


Edited by dirtydangles

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I don't want to let Legwand walk considering we have sunk Jarnkrok into acquiring him.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfie

Nyquist-Weiss-Franzen

Tatar-Sheahan-Legwand

Miller-Helm-Abby

Ferraro/Callahan

Trade Andersson, Buyout Tootoo

Following year we bring up Jurco full time in place of Alfie. Leave Mantha for a season or two in GR then move someone to make room.

That leaves GR with top prospects like Pulkkinen, Jurco, Mantha, AA and the cupboard doesn't look so bare.

Couldn't agree more!

Trade - Andersson at the draft for a 2014 mid-round pick and package Kindl, prospect(s) Almquist and a pick for an upgrade on D

Buyout - Tootoo

Resign RFA's - DeKeyser, Tatar, Sheahan, Glendenning, Ferraro, Callahan and Nestrasil

Resign UFA's - Alfredsson, Legwand, Quincey (if there are no better options available and he is willing to take a pay-cut)

Let walk - Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Gustavsson

Sign - cheap, reliable backup goalie, and an upgrade on D if there is anything available.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Tatar - Datsyuk - Alfredsson

Helm - Weiss - Sheahan

Miller - Legwand - Abdelkader

Ferraro - Callahan

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Smith

Quincey (UFA)

Lashoff

Howard

(UFA)

Give Jurco and Pulkkinen another year down in Grand Rapids, being the first two call-ups if and when anyone goes down in the top 6, and Ferraro and Callahan being the first call-ups if and when anyone goes down in the bottom 6. Keep Glendenning down until the inevitable injuries begin to mount. Hopefully Nestrasil and Frk can continue to develop into NHL calibre players (both need at least another two years of seasoning in my opinion). Unless Mantha, or to a lesser extent Athanasiou tear up the AHL, let them both have a full year, possibly two, to work on their pro game. I believe they are both further away then many fans think they are. Also, give Mrazek another full season developing his game in the AHL. I believe he will benefit a lot more from getting 50-60 starts down in Grand Rapids with a few call-ups, then he would to back-up Howard, playing maybe 20 games.

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as a side note the Preds called up Calle late yesterday. So it only took the Preds 5 games to think that Calle is worth a shot, good for him i say. I dont like losing any of our top end prospects but in the circumstances I can see where Kenny was coming from. We are deep at C and if we re-up Leggy to a 2 year deal then i think that it will all even itself out.

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Well, there Is a rumor floating out there that the Wings are front runners for a talented drafted Russian center who idolizes Datsyuk. He could replace Jarnkrok from the sounds of it.

Honestly Holland has some tough choices ahead of him. Way more kids than there are available spots.

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Fisher. Wilson. Gaustad. Sissions. Jarnkrok.

Calle is already listed 5th on the Nashville depth chart at the center position... it's of little surprise to me that he's already being called up.

He *might* have gotten a shot at a few games this season with all of the injuries, but no doubt he would have gone back down.\

---

Also, I don't see why we wouldn't bring Gustavsson back. He's been solid and can be had for a decent price, I'm sure.

Edited by e_prime

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as a side note the Preds called up Calle late yesterday. So it only took the Preds 5 games to think that Calle is worth a shot, good for him i say. I dont like losing any of our top end prospects but in the circumstances I can see where Kenny was coming from. We are deep at C and if we re-up Leggy to a 2 year deal then i think that it will all even itself out.

If we resign Legwand we'll have like...what...200 centers?

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If we resign Legwand we'll have like...what...200 centers?

Yep, which is why Jarnkrok wouldn't have seen the light of day in Detroit for like 3 years.

Basically, the Wings are set at center for a while but they'll need to keep drafting centers to restock the Jarnkrok-less cupboard.

Next season we could potentially have all these guys signed:

Datsyuk

Zetterberg

Weiss

Legwand

Sheahan

Andersson

Helm

Glendenning

I can see Legwand moving to the wing, and of course Zetterberg will there as well. Glendenning can star the season on GRs I believe.

One of Sheahan or Andersson can be moved to the Wing, but ultimately, I wouldn't be too upset if Andersson was traded.

Leaving

Datsyuk

Weiss

Sheahan

Helm

as your top four with Zetterberg and Legwand ready to swing in to the middle when the ubiquitous injuries start to pile up.

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Yep, which is why Jarnkrok wouldn't have seen the light of day in Detroit for like 3 years.

Basically, the Wings are set at center for a while but they'll need to keep drafting centers to restock the Jarnkrok-less cupboard.

Next season we could potentially have all these guys signed:

Datsyuk

Zetterberg

Weiss

Legwand

Sheahan

Andersson

Helm

Glendenning

I can see Legwand moving to the wing, and of course Zetterberg will there as well. Glendenning can star the season on GRs I believe.

One of Sheahan or Andersson can be moved to the Wing, but ultimately, I wouldn't be too upset if Andersson was traded.

Leaving

Datsyuk

Weiss

Sheahan

Helm

as your top four with Zetterberg and Legwand ready to swing in to the middle when the ubiquitous injuries start to pile up.

I like Dats, Weiss, Sheahan, and Helm as our four centers. But I don't like Legwand on the wing. He doesn't shoot much, and hasn't played there too often. I'd rather we go get an actual winger, I hate this team's insistence on lining up centers at the wing. It's no wonder we have such a hard time scoring goals. But that's just me. And hopefully having Tatar, Nyquist, and Jurco on the wings moving forward will help.

wings87 likes this

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Whats wrong with having a strong third line with Legwand at the center? They would have to try Sheahan at wing a C is bound to get hurt to open up a spot anyway.

Z-D-Alfie

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Legwand-Jurco

Ab-Helm-Sheahan

Miller-Andy-Glendenning/Callahan/Ferraro

Jurco probably won't start with the team but a new "two kids..." line looks pretty good. It would be nice to have the privilege of another skill guy to go with D and Z. Yea, it's nice to have a "puck retriever" on that line, but its not like those three aren't already the hardest working guys on the team.

Man they going to have a surplus of F next year, but those lines look niiiiice

Edited by StayClassy

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I like Dats, Weiss, Sheahan, and Helm as our four centers. But I don't like Legwand on the wing. He doesn't shoot much, and hasn't played there too often. I'd rather we go get an actual winger, I hate this team's insistence on lining up centers at the wing. It's no wonder we have such a hard time scoring goals. But that's just me. And hopefully having Tatar, Nyquist, and Jurco on the wings moving forward will help.

True true.

I've watched the Wings play so much over the last three years that I forgot that centers are supposed to pass and wingers are supposed to shoot and crash the boards.

:lol:

kipwinger likes this

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I like Dats, Weiss, Sheahan, and Helm as our four centers. But I don't like Legwand on the wing. He doesn't shoot much, and hasn't played there too often. I'd rather we go get an actual winger, I hate this team's insistence on lining up centers at the wing. It's no wonder we have such a hard time scoring goals. But that's just me. And hopefully having Tatar, Nyquist, and Jurco on the wings moving forward will help.

If Weiss is bought out or traded, I'll take Legwand but no need for both of them. Call it morbid curiosity, but I'm still curious about what a healthy Weiss looks like. Hopefully we get to see him this year so we get a better feel for him as a player.

nyqvististhefuture likes this

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If Weiss is bought out or traded, I'll take Legwand but no need for both of them. Call it morbid curiosity, but I'm still curious about what a healthy Weiss looks like. Hopefully we get to see him this year so we get a better feel for him as a player.

Weiss is a really good player. He's going to be good here, he's just had a run of crummy luck with the injuries. Also, I'm not sure that he can be bought out (since he was signed after the lockout). Well, he could be regularly bought out, but they couldn't use a compliance buy out. And he has an NTC, so he's definitely not getting traded. So it's probably him over Legwand (who hasn't been bad at all).

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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Weiss is a really good player. He's going to be good here, he's just had a run of crummy luck with the injuries. Also, I'm not sure that he can be bought out (since he was signed after the lockout). Well, he could be regularly bought out, but they couldn't use a compliance buy out. And he has an NTC, so he's definitely not getting traded. So it's probably him over Legwand (who hasn't been bad at all).

I hope you're right about Weiss, since he's not going anywhere.

Listening to Kenny since the trade deadline it sounds like if Legwand wants to resign here, he'll be back. I'm sure a lot if that has to do with the fact that Holland payed through the nose to acquire him, but I just don't see a spot for him. Unless for some odd reason he wants to play on the fourth line, in that case we'll have the highest payed fourth line center. Which is just a terrible way of allocating resources.

kipwinger likes this

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Whats wrong with having a strong third line with Legwand at the center? They would have to try Sheahan at wing a C is bound to get hurt to open up a spot anyway.

Z-D-Alfie

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Legwand-Jurco

Ab-Helm-Sheahan

Miller-Andy-Glendenning/Callahan/Ferraro

Jurco probably won't start with the team but a new "two kids..." line looks pretty good. It would be nice to have the privilege another skill guy to go with D and Z, yea it's nice to have a "puck retriever" on that line, but its not like those aren't already the three hardest working guys on the team.

Man they going to have a surplus of F next year, but those lines look niiiiice

I'd like to see at least a pre-season game with Z-Dats-Mantha.

BadgerBob likes this

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I'd like to see at least a pre-season game with Z-Dats-Mantha.

I'd honestly like to see Z-Dats-Jurco. He's a big strong kid, and he's really good on the boards. Plus, Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar are murdering it.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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I'd honestly like to see Z-Dats-Jurco. He's a big strong kid, and he's really good on the boards. Plus, Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar are murdering it.

I'd love to see both combos, just to see what they can do together. Jurco is really good on the cycle hanging on to the puck and he definitely is strong. Maybe a 3rd line of Manth-Helm-Jurco could be intriguing as well. Nothing like having 3 scoring lines. Either way, I hope Kenny keeps his cheque book in his fanny pack until he sees which kids should be on the team.

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I'd honestly like to see Z-Dats-Jurco. He's a big strong kid, and he's really good on the boards. Plus, Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar are murdering it.

And he'd make that top line quicker as well.

But OMFG will he go stand in front of the GOALIE!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

'Cuz if not, better resign Bert. 'Cuz we won a bunch of games that time Homer stood in front of the net back in 2008.

kipwinger likes this

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And he'd make that top line quicker as well.

But OMFG will he go stand in front of the GOALIE!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

'Cuz if not, better resign Bert. 'Cuz we won a bunch of games that time Homer stood in front of the net back in 2008.

Are you insinuating that our offensive attack is unimaginative and at times formulaic? How dare you!

To get over my anger I'm going to go watch youtube videos of the Wings force feeding point shots on the Power Play with no success and then silently weep as I pine for 2008.

wings87 likes this

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Are you insinuating that our offensive attack is unimaginative and at times formulaic? How dare you!

To get over my anger I'm going to go watch youtube videos of the Wings force feeding point shots on the Power Play with no success and then silently weep as I pine for 2008.

That's a double fail for sure. No Lidstrom, no Rafalski, and no Homer. Holy god were we ever spoiled.

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Z-D-Jurco

Franz-Weiss-Alfie

Tatar-Legwand-Nyquist

Franz-Z-Nyquist

Jurco-D-Alfie

Tatar-Legwand-Weiss

Edited by StayClassy

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